ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
It looks like Apple is serious about getting into the audio and TV hardware market.....
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/05/12/apple_reportedly_in_talks_to_acquire_german_hdtv_maker_loewe.html
Is this good or bad for B&O?
Beophile:Is this good or bad for B&O?
Very clearly bad. Not only is Loewe B&Os key TV competitor, but the recent B&O Play integration of all things Apple, may mean that the V1 and others are much more difficult to sell to the current Apple crowd. It will be very interesting to see what B&O intend to do if a) Apple buy Loewe and b) they bring out a range of TVs that compete against the V1, BV10 and others.
And looking at that AppleInsider report, Apple would be competing against the other B&O Play products, too, potentially wiping out many of the recent plans and future plans for new B&O products.
Apple makes some great products as Loewe does, too... but I think Apple needs to be stopped on their way to the (digital) world domination. This wouldn'd end up well for all customers and companies.
Interesting rumour indeed! But I don't see the fit:
- manufacturing? Apple outsources everything, only the product design is done in-house, so what would be the point of buying Loewe?
- retail? Apple has a much stronger retail presence than Loewe, and probably the highest turnover per sq.m. of any retailer;
- size? Loewe is a niche player (just like B&O), Apple is a behemoth, so what would be the point?
- design? You can say many things about Apple, that their products lack design or flair is not one of them - they do not need Loewe's expertise.
- panels? Loewe buys them in Asia just like everybody else, including Apple...
So maybe it has to do with software or patents? We'll see.
At any rate, if this is confirmed, it is probably not good news for B&O, who will become even more of a niche player and will need to find new ways of generating business I guess: having somebody like Apple entering your market is not fun, ask the music industry, the TV and movie networks, etc...
Current: Beovision Eclipse 65" v1 - Beolab 50 - Beolab 28 - 2 x BS2 (GVA) - 1 x BS1 (GVA) - Beoremote Halo - H9i
Past:
Beovision MX4000 - Beovision 3-32 - Beovision 7-55
Beosound 9000 - Beosound 5 / Beomaster 5
Beolab 6000 - Beolab 8000 - Beolab 5 - Beolab 3 - Beolab 17
It's all very bizarre!
I don't really see how this would fit in with the Apple TV rumours.
I always had a feeling that the new Apple TV would use B&O speakers.
Loewe is OK I guess bit it's not B&O is it?
Anyway whatever, I think the B&O PLAY brand is looking great and i'm planning on adding 2 to my crib when I get my commission cheque in July!
VANTAGE:So maybe it has to do with software or patents? We'll see.
They are running at a loss, and if Apple needs some patent coverage this could be a cheap solution
But I don't see Apple trying to carry the TV ranges that B&O and Lowe have.
"Furniture" is a much different business from what Apple is currently equipped for
In some ways Ikea is a worse competitor ... particularly if is undercuts - the opposite of Apple charging a premium
BeoNut since '75
TWG: Apple makes some great products as Loewe does, too... but I think Apple needs to be stopped on their way to the (digital) world domination. This wouldn'd end up well for all customers and companies.
Yeah -But try and tell it to the Apple fanatics, who just loooove their overpriced products, made in China by underpayed employees, working under hazardous conditions...Oh yes -Apple is suddently talking about doing something for the workers and the environment -after it was published.And now B&O follow in their footsteps with their Apple docking stations -also made in China (hopefully under better conditions).
There's nothing wrong with Apple products -but the hype and fanatism that the late Jobs created is just too much for me...I don't want to be part of this iNsanity... No 'fruit boxes' in our home... iQuit.
I remember an episode of Star Trek from the 60's where they come to a Planet where primitive natives worship a fake God that turns out to be a computer...The episode was called...The Apple... Who said 'prediction of the future'...
Yawn , you've got an android in your avatar so obviously you're biased. Get a life.
Persoally I think it's the beginning of the end for bang & olufsen , you can blame their arrogance for that.
A few years ago Apple put out their hands in friendship and the then B&O CEO ignored them , laughably informing them they were going to take Aople on in mobile phones and Mp3 players and look at the garbage they produced.
I don't have much time for Loewe personally but at least they're thechnically up to date with things unlike b&o . We're expecting updates to the iMac and cinema displays soon , maybe the much vaunted itv is it !?
More info on the Loewe takeover:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/12/apple-interested-in-acquiring-german-television-maker-loewe/
"Loewe's largest shareholder is Sharp, the same company that has been rumored to be Apple's choice to work with Foxconn to build a television set. Foxconn and Sharp announced a partnership to work together in March. AppleInsider says a decision on the acquisition will be announced internally by the end of this week."
I still think it's more than just patents. Producing quality TVs can't be easy and B&O find it easier to take over other companies to ease their transition in to a new market. They have had a history of doing this in the past. Maybe Apple see the Loewe unit as their TV facilitators. Would make some sense. Indeed, the exist Loewe stores could be turned in to "lifestyle" stores for the Apple TV, much like the planned B&O lifestyle stores.
I can't see B&O displaying the TVs in their regular stores. Space is already a premium.
Flappo: We're expecting updates to the iMac and cinema displays soon
We're expecting updates to the iMac and cinema displays soon
We are? I don't think so Flappo. The Thunderbolt Cinema Display only came out last year and it doesn't need a revamp! A new Cinema Display isn't coming out soon, IMHO.
Steffan, you seriously think your HTC/Nokia or whatever it is, is made in a dedicated single factory with parts specifically made for your chosen phone by the manufacturer? Can it do Apple TV? Do you have an HTC/Nokia similar Imac upstairs to sink it with seamlessly? HTC cloud? HTC tunes? Where is your Android dock made Steffan? Luxembourg? or next to the Panerai factory nestling in the Alps with cows roaming about their green pastures?
As for products being made in China with companies just being a design bureau, how many products have B&O just rebadged? The V1 uses a Korean display, with a German video engine and speakers from Italy! Made in Denmark?
I'm not complaining about it, it's the way of the world. Today i fly my 737-300 round Europe. And i can hardly think of a single part that Boeing actually makes on it bar the skin. Is it not therefore a Boeing? Even the Yoke is made in Canada.
Would i want my company to be connected to the richest on the planet? Back to cloud cuckoo land Androids, or considering all their moaning, complaining and insecurity about Apple products, maybe they should be rebadged "The Adenoids"
If Apple came knocking on the door at Struer, i wonder how many milliseconds it would take before they said, HIIIIIIIIIII there
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Moxxey - according to macrumors buyers guide we are
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
ACD - Recommendation
Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle Last Release September 15, 2011 imac- Recommendation Don't Buy - Updates soon Last Release May 03, 2011
Flappo: Moxxey - according to macrumors buyers guide we are
Knowing Apple over the years, it won't happen. Why should it? Over the next few months we'll see new Airs, MBPs and, later, updated iMacs, all with Ivy Bridge. We'll also see iOS 6, iPhone 5 and Mountain Lion. We won't see new Cinema Displays, primarily as Apple are moving away from their traditional "Pro" market (Mac Pro's, 17" MBP etc).
I wouldn't follow their guide - they've had the Mac Pro down for a refresh for well over a year now :)
The mac pro problem is down to intel.
Macrumors a lot more reliable than apple insider in my experience.
Whatever happens , what a shame that Apple didn't buy B&o ... Now that really would have been exciting.
The Loewe purchase news is now hitting PC websites: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/apple/3357339/apple-buy-german-premium-tv-maker-loewe/
Flappo, maybe Apple did approach B&O, but B&O rebuked their offer/advance. My assumption would be that B&O know that Apple are aiming a different sector. Apple go for the average consumer who will walk in to their stores from the street, B&O are going for premium customers who want the company to sort out the entire install for them (and have the money to pay for it). Sure, the latter customer base is reducing, but B&O couldn't afford to lose them.
So, we don't know the full facts. As others have pointed out, B&O weren't exactly welcoming Apple cooperation with open arms a few years ago. Remember they got in to bed with Samsung on a couple of occasions, as an example. I also remember an interview with a top exec at B&O where they said they didn't see Apple/iTunes cooperation as the way forward for the brand. Maybe this also riled the folks at Apple.
Although Ive, Jobs and others are fans of B&O design, they do get annoyed easily. Maybe B&O's *previous* arrogance drove them to ignore the brand.
I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding bno and their arrogant streak. I recall Apple in the bad old days late 80's , early 90's when SJ was in the wildreness - they had these weird Apple stores that were a bit like the bno shops now - not exactly inviting and full of superior acting staff who all knew best and if you dared ask the price - you couldn't afford it..
They very nearly put me off the brand for good tbh.
I just hope bno get their act together or they really are in deep doo doo.
who ever pays 5000 to 10.000 Euro for a TV does not really interest if 50 to 400 Euro Apple product is compatible or not.
Premium customers are looking for induviduality, quality and design at first side. Then comes the technology and may be at the end the compatibility.
I really can not understand why outsourcing company like Apple interest with Loewe. It will just kill Loewe in long run.
Beovision Avant 55 / BV 11-40 / BV7-40 / Beovision Avant / Beosound 9000 / Beosound 5 Encore / Beosystem 4500 / Beosystem 6500 / Beocenter 9000 / Beolab 5000 / Beolab 18 / Beolab 19 / Beolab 11 / Beolab 17 / 3 sets of Beolab 4000 / Beovox Red Line 60.2
beopiranha: Premium customers are looking for induviduality, quality and design at first side.
Premium customers are looking for induviduality, quality and design at first side.
And that "premium" customer base, of ageing users, is dwindling fast, being replaced by savvy <35-year-olds who grew up using computers and are mad keen on integration, media streaming and so on.
Sadly beopiranha, your comment is a sign of the blinkered model that some B&O users have with their future market. Good luck to them if they want to target 50+ year olds who have frankly too much money and will happily spend £8000 on a TV simply for "quality and design".
I've been watching Loewe share prices for about a year now - and saw them slide down to around 2.10.
Then, in mid January, they rocketed up - over DOUBLED in price...
I did wonder at the time - was it someone who know something we didn't .......
Lee
Steffen,
You really should give Apple products a try and a chance. Their computers are beautifully, made and designed and are so easy to use, unlike Windows in my opinion. And the iPhone is a deliht to use after years of Blackberrys!!! Such beautiful design with the aluminium and glass that it should wear a B&O badge!!! IMO they are not overpriced and indeed worth the money. They are a real pleasure to use and no, im not into geeky gadgets or IT one bit but I love using Apple in my career etc.
I also think Apple and B&O work very well together. They are both classy, stylish, human to use and beautifully made - elegant even. So less bashing Apple especially when they are awful plasticky Samsung & Toshiba 'stuff' out there!
And my old iMac from 12 years ago still works beautifully for whenever I need to use QuarkXpress for graphic design purposes.
Paul W: especially when they are awful plasticky Samsung & Toshiba 'stuff' out there!
Hang on there! I've just replaced my wonderful, but old Beovision 3, with a 46" Toshiba. Silver aluminium, designed by Jacob Jensen. I'm not saying there's not better out there, but mine is certainly not awfully plastic and I'm thrilled with it!
moxxey, if you are one of <35 then you should know that you do not need Apple brand to do everything what Apple products can do. Even with Samsung Blu-Ray player you can do everything what Apple TV can.
What is the reason for young generation makes Apple that important? Apart from Itunes Apple does not have something really special others can not do...
So, come back to do point. When I buy a TV I buy a TV not a media center. If I want to add these small and cheap plastic products which is available any day any where I will buy one and add to the system.
How many people you know still running around with Iphone1 and how many people you know still using their 20 years old B&O and Loewe stuff? That is the question you should answer first.
Hehehe Kokomo i'm talking about their laptops.
Mind you, a flat mate of mine, spent £180 in 2008 on a Toshiba 46" TV and it was horrible in terms of both picture & thin sound quality. The picture never looked good, I guess things have improved :)
beopiranha: So, come back to do point. When I buy a TV I buy...
So, come back to do point. When I buy a TV I buy...
The keyword there is "I". You're generally speaking for yourself.
I'm not saying everyone is going out to buy a "media centre" for a TV, but I guarantee you two things. Firstly, people look for value-for-money these days. They are more savvy. They want to know their TV is future proof and a good design is simply not enough. Secondly, fewer and fewer people will consist a £8000 as value for money simply over the design. You've not sold me on any reason why most people under 40 would walk in to a B&O store and consider spending money on a BV10, BV7 or BV12. Perhaps a V1, but you'd have to get them in to the store in the first place.
I beleive there is misunderstanding here. I was not talking about B&O I was talking generally over premium brands and there is no reason for me to sell you something since i'm not in position to convince you for anything.
But if you ask, you should get an answer. With your mentality, does not matter which brand you purchase will be a crap within very short time since 4K HD is coming. 3D will be glassless etc. So, as a customer you should have other facts to decide on B&O like stand, link, quality, long life etc.
As long as you want to follow Apple; B&O is definitely wrong brand for you. Because, nobody would pay that much money for something last 2 to 5 years max! However, this young generation should also thing if they are good customers with their mentality or not? Philips, Sony, Pioneer etc. all tried to offer what this generation will and all these brands have lost
Beopiranha, I REALLY DISAGREE with you when you say If you like Apple, then B&O is the wrong brand! I think the two compliment each other very very very well. Looking at target markets & socio demographics, the person that buys a MacBook for instance, cares about quality and appreciates great design. Even the interior of the MacBook box is beautifully designed in a matching white.
Quality and caring about great design, isn't that what the B&O savvy customer is into? I'd say yes.
Maybe the SONY, Samsung, LG or Toshiba customer will not buy into B&O, but, I really think the Apple customer does!!! Ive bought both since 1999!!! And im only 32!
I must also say a well done to the BEOLIT 12 Why? Because the very second that I played my iPhone on it 2 weeks ago, my ears ear picked up no compression to the sound. It sounded real!
Paul, May be I can not impress my oppinion correctly may be you and Moxxey get me wrong.
I'm also Apple user and as I wrote before for example Itunes is perfect media interface for Digital Audio. I really appreciate what Apple has created. But...
My sentence was "If you want to FOLLOW Apple !!!" not "If you like Apple". I like Apple too and they are creative but this brand is creating a model max. 2 years and comes the new one. So, what I'm saying is that this method is deathly for any premium brand because they can not sell something for huge amount of money lasting just 2 years.
In another thread, my suggestion to B&O has been a co-operation with Apple on software. That will help to improve BEOLINK and BEOSOUND as well as BEOVISION. But acquiring Loewe or B&O will kill these brands in long run. Let's wait and see.
It's bad for B&O. Apple should buy B&O. But I believe that B&O blew it when they put embedded Windows into the Beosound 5 without supporting Apple's format. Beoplay comes too late. It's going to be difficult to cooperate with Apple after they buy the biggest competition of B&O.
Although I don't like Loewe's quality standards and wanna-be design, I believe that they made the right decisions in terms of flexibility and configuration.
http://www.t3.com/news/apple-to-acquire-loewe-to-build-itv-flatscreen-television
Could be a very serious contender in a short amount of time if they get the investment, which is suspect they will. They could very quickly become the mainstream high street, high end TV producer.
Well, the latest from Appleinsider is that Lowe are vigorously denying that there is anything to the rumours about a takeover.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/05/13/loewe_denies_rumors_of_apple_acquisition.html
Maybe it's just another one of those rumours that surface from time to time.
Best
John..
John: Maybe it's just another one of those rumours that surface from time to time.
Hi John,
Maybe it's also a condition (conditions precedent) that no rumours can be announced?
I also love Loewe, and I think that even if it is true, that there is still a place for B&O. Although there are apple integrations coming to light in B&O, there has always been room for two. People will always see the difference and quality that B&O brings - regardless of play.
Michael.
I guess we'll know more by the end of next week, one way or another. But one of my German colleagues (who believes the rumour more than me) gave me this link:
http://www.businessinsider.com/loewe-invisio-transparent-tv-apple-might-buy-2012-5
Interesting.
I'll just point out, I've never bought any Loewe kit in my life. Was fairly impressed once with their stand in Selfridges, but ended up buying a BV10-46.
moxxey: I guess we'll know more by the end of next week, one way or another. But one of my German colleagues (who believes the rumour more than me) gave me this link: http://www.businessinsider.com/loewe-invisio-transparent-tv-apple-might-buy-2012-5 Interesting.
Wow, great : now even business journalist can't make the difference between real concepts of the brands and prospective work of design students... The Invisio is made by a STUDENT, it's a 3D render. Samsung has made a demonstration of that technology at the CES this year, and Loewe doesn't have more patents in that technology field than B&O for instance.
diisign.com
I agree with Michael there there is still room for B&O and Loewe.
I also feel that yes former CEO's at B&O were maybe anti-Apple BUT and here's the but, the new CEO Tue had a meeting with Apple, presumably to clear the air etc. Tue has his own vision and him and the new B&O can't be blamed for arrogance or indeed ignorance of former CEO's.
It's very similar when i've been brought in to radio stations, I have my goals and vision and often have to clear up a lot of mess from former management, but, we get there!
Of course the new Apple TV is going to be amazing and cheap-ish BUT its a different product that say a BV10. And yes, I agree the BM5 is completely barmy and doesn't offer what an iPod offers BUT for me i'd go the B&O Play way and personally stay away from the Bang&Olufsen IT Audio side as that seems to be were the trouble is - in this case, this is were Apple and B&O work great together. Anyway, just my thoughts and opinion.
Cool down, Chris
Quite funny to read all the things you blame me for saying...Some people just like to deliberately misinterpret everything.Let me correct a few mistakes, before your imaginatination runs into the wild:
Chris Townsend:Steffan, you seriously think your HTC/Nokia or whatever it is, is made in a dedicated single factory with parts specifically made for your chosen phone by the manufacturer?
I've never said that I think my phone is made according to your description (above). And I've never said that they make poor quality in China these days.But if you buy some cheap products made in China, you know that they are not made under the best conditions.Have you read about the conditions in the factory where they polish the aluminum parts?Lots of people have died, and comitted suicide on the factories that make iPads, -Phones etc.By the way Apple are branding themself (and with their prices) , you should at least expect that the products were manufactured under just a little bit better conditions than many cheap products...they are not!!!
As I wrote -I just hope B&O choose a better manufacturer for their products.
Chris Townsend:Can it do Apple TV?
-actually I don't care. There are LOTS of other opportunities on the market.
Chris Townsend:And i can hardly think of a single part that Boeing actually makes on it bar the skin. Is it not therefore a Boeing? Even the Yoke is made in Canada.
Cut this cr.p!!! Don't you think I know that in every modern product there is parts made all over the world. Thats not the point!!! You just don't get it. It's obviously your way of debating - blaming your opponents for lots of things they never said (or wrote).Guess what...It IS possible to live in the modern world without apple products
Flappo: Yawn , you've got an android in your avatar so obviously you're biased. Get a life.
Oh sorry. And you are offcourse not biased...
You can't blame apple for foxconns terrible working conditions . I know an android fanboy like you would love to but apple are actually improving working conditions for workers by giving incentives to manufacturers , try googling it.
The new apple tv will be translucent , 4k resolution with voice and gesture control and uses an iOS device to control it . It will probably also have glasses free 3d, in case you think that's all sci fi , check out sharps latest screens from the CES 2012 on YouTube. With Loewe on board they'll only accelerate the process.
There ya go , something called research , you might try it some time before you launch into one of your mindless rants.