Howto setup a NON B&O amplifier with Beolabs (3.1 or 5.1 surround setup with Pioneer Kuro + Pioneer AVR)

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kallasr Posted: Mon, Aug 27 2012 8:59 AM

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This week-end I finally made it:

Setting up my Pioneer VSX-LX60 with Beolab 4000 (center) and Beolab 8000 (fronts).
Using a KEF PSW2500 acitve sub, also.

So I went from a Canton setup

To Bang & Olufsen again.

It is so much nicer, isn't it?

You need an AVR (Audio Video Reciever) or at least an Amplifier that has pre-out (non amplified signals for the amps built in the Beolabs) and triggers. These trigger usally have 12 Volts.
Next you get come cables from www.av-connection.dk :

The upper one is a mono cable for the center speaker.
I used this one to attach one Beolab 4000 and uses a normal powerlink cable to connect another Beolab 4000 speaker.

The lower cables are stereo calbe (left and right channel). I used one in cobination the a connector (to have a female end) and a y-splitter to attache the two Beolab 8000.

The third cable might be used in a future setup. Bought this because cable are about 50 to 60 Euro and shipping is appr. 25 Euro.

 You need to connect the RCA plug in the pre-out  output of your amp AND the small plug into the trigger out. For the pioneer you set the required action in the set-up: e.g. if SAT or PS3 is chosen, active both triggers (to power on the beolabs).

Why is this important?

The trigger signal is always active and keeps the Beolab 8000 (fronts) alive = turned on, even when there is a scene with much dialogue. Otherwise after 3 min. (?) the speakers would turn off with a popping sound.

The automatic set-up routine of the Pioneer amp worked very well.

Next issue will be using another pair of Beolabs or the Beolink MCL2P/Beolink passive that we use at the moment with the Beosound 2300 AND the Pioneer amp. Another y-splitter cable is here, but I still need a coupler/doubler. We will be using Powerlink to RJ45 adapters for this as well. I will update this as we move along.

 Hope this is useful for you!

Best regards
Ralf

PS: If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

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elephant replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 9:19 AM

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Great post Ralf - thanks so much for sharing all the details

And yes !! it looks great

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liviu_o replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 10:35 AM

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Ralf,

thank you for your post and picture. I have a ROTEL RSX 1057 with a 12V trigger - single.

Any ideas how can I use a single trigger port for 6 beolabs( 2 8000's, 2 6000's  a center and a "planned"subwoofer)? Because all of them turns on and off as soon as they don't have any signal - about 1 min.

Maybe a sort of trigger  "" hub"" ?

Liviu

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kallasr replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 11:34 AM

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Well I turn on 2 x Beolab 8000 with one trigger and 2 x Beolab 4000 with the second one available.
For the rears I need a third one (not there...) OR use the RCA to LINE-in for the center channel.

There is a trigger hub - sort of - emotiva et 3 - but this is the only one I found so far.

In your case: one trigger should be enough for the fronts - try line-in on the beolab 6000s and in case you will get an active sub non B&O this should be easy - just rca to rca...

Ralf

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liviu_o replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 2:59 PM

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Ralf,

sorry for my mistake ( I wasn't home): I looked at my Rotel right now and it has 3 12V outputs named: 1,2 and zone.

This way I think I can manage the fronts and the rears. The centre will be rca-line in.

But what about the subwoofer since I am planning a Beolab 11/2 ? Maybe the "zone" trigger can be used as well? That would greatly simply the problem.

And how do you manage 2 8000's/6000's from 1 trigger? Is your cable 2 RCA's + trigger to 2 RCA's?

Liviu

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liviu_o replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 3:04 PM

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Ah, I saw now the details about your 2 RCA's + trigger to powerlink. Can't you simply conect it to an 8000 and then to run a powerlink cable between 8000's? will it differentiate left from right speaker ( of course setting this at the 8000's switches).

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kallasr replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 3:20 PM

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I thought so, too.

But the Beolab 8000 has one powerlink socket only....

Best regards
Ralf

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liviu_o replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 3:47 PM

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Ah, ok...was thinking about the  2 powerlink sockets of the 6000's.

So : for 8000's I also need and Y splitter.

A lot of cables:)) CAn you please send me a link ot this splitter? Thanks a lot!

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kallasr replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 4:16 PM

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HERE, Steve from Sounds Heavenly has them for sale.

Ralf

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Desmo replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 5:31 PM

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liviu_o:

Ralf,

thank you for your post and picture. I have a ROTEL RSX 1057 with a 12V trigger - single.

Any ideas how can I use a single trigger port for 6 beolabs( 2 8000's, 2 6000's  a center and a "planned"subwoofer)? Because all of them turns on and off as soon as they don't have any signal - about 1 min.

Maybe a sort of trigger  "" hub"" ?

Liviu

Thanks for the good post ralph. You have a lovely setup

I run all of my beolabs (2 lab 1's, 2 lab 8k's and a lab 2) through the same trigger.

You can solder them all together if you make the cables by yourself.

Otherwise you can buy anything like the http://www.inewidea.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/image0052.jpg

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liviu_o replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 6:43 PM

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Is the 12V output of the triger ok with beolabs? 

I read in a post that you have to downsize the output to 5V in order to use it with beolabs.

Anybody aware about this issue?

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kallasr replied on Mon, Aug 27 2012 7:22 PM

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Desmo:

Otherwise you can buy anything like the http://www.inewidea.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/image0052.jpg

Ok, I just bought the belkin rockstar (1 to 5) for 12 Euro including shipping, found this (Belkin iPod Y-Adapter 1 to 2) for 3 Euro plus shipping afterwards...

Will give it try.

Thanks!

Ralf

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liviu_o replied on Tue, Aug 28 2012 6:54 AM

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Ralf,

thanks for sharing this...I am waiting for your thoughts afterwards because I am concerned about all this stuff or investing a lot ( 4000 euros) in a s.h.  beosystem 3 and let go of ROTEL and all the cables ( problems).

I am curios if the Belkin adapters works as we want to. If so then all the problems will be solved.

By the way....my Rotel has the posibility to set the crossover to all the speakers. Does anyone know which will be the best settings for the 8000's - fronts, 6000's - centers, 6000's rears?

Thanks!

Liviu

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liviu_o replied on Sun, Sep 2 2012 9:35 PM

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Ralf,

any news about the trigger hubs? Did they work ok?

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kallasr replied on Wed, Sep 5 2012 8:14 AM

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Update:

The Belkin Rockstar works.
At least when I used it to split the trigger out for: 2 x Beolab 8000 and 2 x Beolab 4000.
A Beolink Passive that I wanted to use for the Rear Speakers didn't turn on (well turned on for less than a second, than turned off).
I tried one Center speaker (Beolab 4000) and due to the lack of more Beolabs just one Rear Speaker.
That worked.

I intended to use my existing CAT7 cabling and adapters (bought at Soudn Heavenly) to transfer the Powerlink signal from one end of the living room to the other. The signal arrives using the one Beolab BUT there is a loud hum.
Maybe a converter is needed?

LINK to a thread covering this issue:

"In the "Cat7/Class F New Installation Concept, New infrastructure, Handbook" it says:

"6 Non balanced speakers
Pre-ICEpower loudspeakers with non balanced input must be mounted with a special
non balance converter box.
Part number 3376078
This is only necessary if BeoLab loudspeakers without ICEpower amplifiers are used.
Present versions: BeoLab6000, BeoLab8000 and older versions of BeoLab4000, as well as
older models."

http://www.abo-center.dk/Abo_center_2/reptips/diagrammer/Link/Cat7%20New%20B&onet%20handbook.pdf"

Any idea about the price of the converter box?

EDIT: I ordered one (has 2 x Powerlink out) for 90 Euro. /EDIT

For me there are 3 options now:

1. Exchange the BL Passive + CX100 with Beolabs + converter box -- IF that gets rid of the humming. This way I would try to use the rears for the Beocenter as well (via splitter conneting to masters - audio and video - to one set of speakers).

2. Leave it as it is at the moment (Beolink Passive with CX100 attached to Beocenter 2300 for background music) AND a 3.1 system for video.

3. Get an extra set of Beolab 6000s as rears and run them directly to the AVR, not using my ethernet / rj45 cabling.

We prefer option 1....

Ralf

PS: Does anybody know an alternative to the nanoperm coil mentioned in the Cat 7 handbook (p/n 6710038)? Would that help?

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kallasr replied on Wed, Nov 7 2012 8:28 AM

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Just to complete this thread:

Using Teufel Rearstation 4 now to integrate the Rears (Beovox CX100).
Seamless integration.

I was very suprised to see this technology work, I tried something similar a few years ago and it didn't work at all.

For Music we are using a dedicated speakers set (Beloab 4000) with the Beocenter 2300.

Best regards
Ralf

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XavierItzmann replied on Wed, Nov 7 2012 2:16 PM

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Ralf, great thread.

Some seven years ago or so, I wired a whole room with RCA precisely to be able to use a third-party amplifier with BeoLabs.  After a year or so, I gave up on the concept, for three reasons:

Major reason: Sound startup.  With pure PowerLink, there is no pop when the speakers come on.  The sound starts low and quickly increases to the pre-set volume.  With RCA, there is a small pop and the sound starts instantly at the pre-set volume.  I found this so irritating I ended up throwing away the non-B&O equipment, going B&O-only, and rewiring everything, at some cost.

Minor reason:  I did not realize these trigger cables existed.  I did have my BeoLabs occassionally pop into sleep only to pop back on.  Irritating.  It seems the trigger concept would have eliminated this aberration!

Minor reason:  Even though I had shielded RCAs inside the walls, one of the BeoLabs had a slight hum anytime it was "on" but there was no sound, which of course occurs during the few minutes after you turn off the audio source but the BeoLab has not yet gone to sleep.  Irritating.

In the end, like I said, I found these problems so overwhelming I went back to pure B&O.

In fact, as I indicated on a different thread, I've been considering doing a hybrid B&O/non-B&O installation on a vessel we own, but just remembering and summarizing the issues we faced in the past, I think I should reconsider.

But it would be interested to hear about your final results.

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kallasr replied on Thu, Nov 8 2012 8:53 AM

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Hello Xavier,

what do you want to know?

It integrates niceley using the cables / pre-outs.

Another step could be using Lintronic to make everything Beo4 compatible, but I tried this years ago (with a different amp though, Denon) and did not like the result (delays due to the need to press vol +/- several times since the code for keeping a key pressed could not be transfered nicely to the Denon amp).

Best regards
Ralf

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kallasr replied on Tue, Nov 20 2012 1:17 PM

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Forgot to post a photo of the final set-up:

Using these brackets for the 2 center Beolab 4000.

Ralf

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galenoc replied on Thu, Jan 17 2013 6:27 PM

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Dear Kallasr

Excellent job.

I have two Beolab 1, two beolab 8000, beolab 7.1 and beolab 2.

I have a receiver pioneer sc-2022-k with preout, 5 v output and 12v trigger. 

Could you help me to connect beolabs trigger?

I don´t understand very well how do you do.

If you are so kind to send me some esquem or pictures ....

best regards

galenoc

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kallasr replied on Fri, Jan 18 2013 10:12 AM

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galenoc:

I have two Beolab 1, two beolab 8000, beolab 7.1 and beolab 2.

I have a receiver pioneer sc-2022-k with preout, 5 v output and 12v trigger. 

Could you help me to connect beolabs trigger?

I don´t understand very well how do you do.

Hello galenoc and welcome to the forum.

You have quite the same reciever as I do, connectionwise.

You might need an Belkin Rockstar to multply your 2 x 12V trigger outs (worked for me! but no guarantee on this!).

Then you connect the cables mentioned above (see the av-connection website) to Belkin / 12V trigger outs.

That's it.

Best regards
Ralf

PS: this is the belkin rockstar, designed as a headphone out mutliplier, but works as described above.

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galenoc replied on Fri, Jan 18 2013 5:14 PM

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Dear Ralf

I have some questions.

There are no problem with trigger of 12 volts instead of 5 volts?

How do you connect the minijact to powerlink? Do you have a diagram to make the cable or do you have the reference in Sounds Heavenly?

Thanks a lot.

Galenoc

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galenoc replied on Fri, Jan 18 2013 8:07 PM

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Many thanks Ralf.

I´ll keep inform of my advances.

Finally it isn´t important 12v instead of 5v.

Best

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l_avocat replied on Tue, Oct 8 2013 2:12 PM

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Do you mean this Y Splitter reduce the voltage from 12 V to 5 V? Sorry, but "if in doubt, ask..." 

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archie replied on Tue, Oct 8 2013 3:20 PM

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No,

the voltage is reduced by the "rca+triger" cable.

I used the same solution with 2 rear lab6000 and 2 front lab8000 and work fine.

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l_avocat replied on Wed, Oct 9 2013 7:54 AM

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"the RCA+triger cable" is from www.av-connection.dk, and not from sounds heavenly, am I right?

A user of the forum said that the Beolab is able to accept a triger signal with 12 V instead 5 V. But maybe it's more secure to buy those rca+trigger cables.

Tx

DoubleU:

Yes, no problem! You don't need the 5V transformator. One of the trigger outputs of your Emo can replace the additional adaptor. Much better, because this way your Beolabs will follow your Emo. Emo standby > Beolab2 LED=red

Trigger output of your Emo is 12V, but that's ok. Your Beolabs can handle that. The current draw of 1 Beolab is less then 1 mA, so you're all good!

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archie replied on Wed, Oct 9 2013 12:11 PM

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Hello,

Yes the 'rca-trigger cable' come from av-connection.

may be be the 12v can replaced the 5v, but how do you send the voltage to the speaker's pin4 ?

More easy to buy the trigger cable.

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DoubleU replied on Wed, Oct 9 2013 6:25 PM

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l_avocat:

"the RCA+triger cable" is from www.av-connection.dk, and not from sounds heavenly, am I right?

A user of the forum said that the Beolab is able to accept a triger signal with 12 V instead 5 V. But maybe it's more secure to buy those rca+trigger cables.

Tx

 

DoubleU:

Yes, no problem! You don't need the 5V transformator. One of the trigger outputs of your Emo can replace the additional adaptor. Much better, because this way your Beolabs will follow your Emo. Emo standby > Beolab2 LED=red

Trigger output of your Emo is 12V, but that's ok. Your Beolabs can handle that. The current draw of 1 Beolab is less then 1 mA, so you're all good!

 

It's really no problem to use 12V. However, the rca+trigger cable should have one of the powerlink-pins (pin 6) shorted to ground, to prevent a small buzz. This applies only to beolabs with a smps power supply. The older beolabs like 6000 or 8000 have a conventional power supply.

So yes, it's easier to have special cable. Also for the future, when you decide to upgrade.

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harjdesign replied on Sun, Dec 20 2015 5:15 PM

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hi Ralf

wondered if you could possibly help.. i having searching online for an answer on how to connect my beolab penta's to my surround sound.

i saw this post but sorry for my inaptness but still dont get it.

i own a harman kardon avr 247 - which has a preamp out.

2 x beolad pentas.

underneath each penta there is a speaker link,  2 x power link and line in.

when i connect an rca cable to the line out and into the preamp outputs on the back of the avr the pentas still remain inactive (red light)

just wondering how do i get them working for a surrround sound as i have some paradigm speakers and a polk sub connected to the avr.

hope this makes sense....and hope you can help.

could i connect my pentas as usual to the beocenter 9500 then set that to aux connect the aux (din to rca)  to the preamp connection on the avr and have all speakers passive and active playing synced sound from a movie all at once?

thanks

Arge

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kallasr replied on Sun, Dec 20 2015 6:50 PM

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harjdesign:

when i connect an rca cable to the line out and into the preamp outputs on the back of the avr the pentas still remain inactive (red light)

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harjdesign replied on Sun, Dec 20 2015 7:46 PM

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Hi Ralf...thank you for the welcome and thanks for the response..do clarity what lead should I exactly use for the preamp out outs? There are 2 connections on the reciever and only one line in on a penta...want both to work. Also checked it was on the right input on the penta when testing..still unactive. I haven't got the remote of the harman kardon 247 receiver...and looked at an online manual for it..it looks like it auto detects what speakers are connected. Also if I connected the beocente to the receiver via thr preamp would that work instead?  thanks again...Arge

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harjdesign replied on Sun, Dec 20 2015 8:23 PM

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I do have a makeshift remote....using an app called 'smart remote' which does have a reset for this avr...not sure if it has the total actual remote options thou.

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harjdesign replied on Sun, Dec 20 2015 9:04 PM

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are you meaning does the avr work in general?

i have used the amp prior to getting the penta's just using passive 7.1 speakers and polk subwoofer.

or are you saying we need to determine the preamp setting is correctly activated before solving this issue?

thanks again for your time.

Arge

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harjdesign replied on Mon, Dec 21 2015 4:14 AM

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Got the remote...just wondered could I use the 2 pin penta speaker link connection one end and bare wire connection other end to the hk avr?