ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Evening
Two weeks ago I wrote to the CEO of Bang & Olufsen, the General Manager Australia and BeoCare. My email was about my experiences as a customer over 20 years. I wrote of the marvellous experiences with my local store but also of the never ending software issues that I have been plagued with over the last several years as they relate to the Beosound 5 and Moment in particular. I've included my email below (though deleting my local store names etc).
As yet no reply whatsoever, not even an acknowledgement. I don't necessarily expect the issue to be resolved by now but a polite reply to say we're looking at it and thanks for taking the time to provide constructive feedback would be welcome and reasonable. I'm sure I cant be the only person who has experienced similar issues re software?
Dear Mr Henrik Clausen / Mr Julian KippingI writing to you to share some of my experiences with you as a Customer of Bang & Olufsen over an almost 20 year history. I hope you will find this feedback both positive and constructive and appreciate the time it has taken to write.Let me start by saying that my first purchase was almost 20 years ago in one of your Sydney stores- a couple of Beocom 6000 telephones and a Beotalk 1200 answering machine. I was captivated by the craftsmanship and beauty of the products. The fact that they could actually also control a Tv and Sound system amazed me. That prompted me to buy a Bang and Olufsen television and sound system as I couldn’t bear not being to use the connected functionality of the telephones and the AV products. It was this beauty, simplicity and functionality that started two decades of dedication to the brand. Over this time I have purchased: Beocentre 26 TV, Beovision 8 TV, Avant TV, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, Beosound 1, BeoPlay 6, Moment, Essence, Beolab 9s, Beolab 3s, Beolink, a dozen vintage Beolit Radios from the 1950s-1970s, Beogram 7000, Beocentre 9500. Various remotes. I’d estimate I have spent aprox 120k AUD (575k DKr)Part of the Bang and Olufsen magic is also of course not just the products but the brilliant after sales experience. Years after a purchase I can still go into a store, be offered a cup of coffee or a glass of champagne and be welcomed. The XX Street Store in Sydney is my local store. XX is the Store Manager and is always professional and helpful. I commend X and one of his technical team X. I also need to mention XX, a technical consultant working with Bang and Olufsen in Sydney who has assisted with various technical issues from product support through to internet/ wi fi support. He has been most generous with his time and support.
Now I was to make some constructive comments which I hope you will consider carefully. From about six years ago however I must say my products have been plagued with more and more frequent technical issues and software problems. This commenced with my Beocentre 2 and its constant inability to work with MAC/ iTunes properly. The problems were so frequent that the store offered to give me back my money on both the beocentre 2 and beolink module. I still have the product as a stand alone because it is so beautiful and an iconic piece. This issue is old history now, but important in the context of the next products purchased.Due to the constant problems with the beocentre 2 after only three years, it was retired to a spare room and I purchased a Beosound 5 in January 2014. A lovely, lovely product. I painstakingly loaded one by one all of my CDs. It took weeks. I enjoyed the internet radio and spotify functions enormously. In less than two years I started to experience significant problems; many internet radio stations links stopped working and I would have to let beocare know and they would try to fix. Then Spotify regularly stopped working, only to eventually stop altogether. In only three years the beosound 5 product had become barely useable. After much discussion with XX in May 2017 I purchased a Moment. We were both convinced this was the ‘future’ product. Before embarking on this XX suggested I also future proof my home internet and wi fi at considerable expense. I did this because I wanted all of products to work flawlessly and rule out any wi fi dropouts etc. The last six months have been one disaster after another in relation to my products. Once getting the Moment home it became obvious that the CODEC the Beosound burnt my CDS in wasn’t compatible with the Moment system and I had to re load all my CDs again. Weeks of work. I couldn’t believe a CODEC (WMA LOSSLESS) available on one product would no longer be supported on another.Within weeks of having the system set up, it was clear there were faults. The moment would stop, splutter, drop out on any of the functions played, i.e. Tunein, Deezer or my own collection via DLNA. Everyday for weeks I was instructed to reset or reboot the system. What should have been a joy to turn on my system everyday became an endless frustration re constant resets, turning products on and off, reloading the BEO APP. The APP itself has had many ‘bug’ problems. Within a month or so I was given a second Moment as it was acknowledged the one I bought was faulty.Bang and Olufsen installed the second Moment. While the second moment mostly plays, issues that were present with the first also continue. Artwork from my DLNA library does not display properly, partly displays, is blank or sometimes completely different artwork to what is loaded ( I have dozens of photos documenting these artwork issues). Despite waiting for an answer from Denmark on this issue for several months I still have no fix. The wooden side of the moment will not consistently turn on the moment or play music- occasionally it will, but mostly after a long period of inactivity, e.g overnight, it will not turn on products. Further to this the latest issue is that the mood wheel no longer displays correctly and only the inner ring is loaded, the middle and outer rings are greyed out. A factory reset has not resolved these issues. Simultaneously to these issues I have had numerous issues with my beosound 1, repeatedly being unable to connect to my network. I was given a replacement after bang and olufsen technicians tested the product and visited my house. My second Beosound 1 has similar problems, presumably software problems again. My local store appear to now know how to resolve, I need to find the time to take it to be repaired.On the weekend I read that the Moment, not even three years into its life is being deleted. I have had mine barely for six months and it has never worked properly. I assume my experiences are not unique, rather a systemic problem of poor testing and software failures. While I accept technology changes quickly I cannot accept that I have paid so much money for products that don’t work and take hours and hours each week to reset and reboot. The joy of using your products has gone and what is left is frustration and extreme annoyance that what should be seamlessly integrated products is a litany of errors.
I wish to be very clear I have no issue with the level of service xx and his team have provided. They are exemplary and do their very best to assist. Rather I believe they are selling products with poor software and limited support from Denmark.
I’d be keen to know your thoughts as the CEO in relation to how you may be rectifying such systemic problems. At this point I’m very reluctant to consider another Bang and Olufsen music system solution, though ideally I’d love my present system to work properly and know it will be supported for several years to come (as when it does work its truly lovely!)
Med Venlig hilsen
Dr David Coyne.
Beovision 8-40, Beocentre 6-26, Beocentre 2, Beolab 9's, Beogram 7000, Beogram 9500, Beo 5, Beolit 1000, 800, 700, 600, 400, Beocom 6's, Beotalk 1200
Terrible experience, but not too untypical of many problems listed on this forum.
I doubt whether you will get a reply..... too many issues to dare to acknowledge!
Graham
Seriously,you doubt i'll receive a reply? Id like to believe they'd like to do the right thing and at the very least thank me for the time it took to construct the feedback.
Someone here will be along shortly to tell you that you shouldn't post negative comments about the brand or their products!
Ban boring signatures!
I could have co-signed that letter... only adding that I had the BeoMedia 1 (first the two-box solution, later the all-in-one) prior to the BS5 and currently the Moment. They all were discontinued before they reached a stable sw platform. And now all my link products are from the current collection of wireless speakers, all with issues.
B&O has been doing the opposite of Apple: The iPhone is pretty much the same device it was 10 years ago, but they are on iOS 11 now
Roger
agree should havea rely but even apple having problems we now on the 8th update for ios
malcolm
Puncher: Someone here will be along shortly to tell you that you shouldn't post negative comments about the brand or their products!
Ha!
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
David, I have just read your letter and would like to acknowledge how well written it is. I hope you get a response, you deserve one. You have been honest and constructive with your comments and also paid tribute to the excellent service received from the guys at your local dealership. I echo many of your sentiments and thoughts albeit with different products as I never bought the BS5 or the Moment, and having ready your comments I am pleased - sorry to say but in the spirit of honesty given the problems you outline. If B&O do respond and are working on these issues supporting all current and recent products then there is a glimmer of hope, but of not, then I really think B&O as we 'knew it' - was/is over. I am not buying the Eclipse or any other recent products for the same reasons you highlight, but neither am I good concerned about leaving B&O or being loyal to them anymore. I have to believe in the brand I am being into and if B&O have allowed this deterioration to their reputation then I have no sympathy and will move on. If I owned a brand such as this I would be proud of it and not want it to fail. They have chosen this route and continually made bad decisions so just deserts as their demise is their own choice, no doubt driven by greed... Simon.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
Many typos above... lol! A rushed response :)
Nicely written even if it could have been a bit stronger.
But this goes with my post in another thread how if i was the CEO i would be VISIBLE. This includes a response from them.
I bet it took you ages to write that, read the draft and edit it prior to sending.
Good luck.
malcolm welborn: agree should havea rely but even apple having problems we now on the 8th update for ios
Every software developer finds bugs, whether it's Microsoft, Apple or an independent. That's a norm. Nothing is ever perfect. No need for "even Apple" as if it's a huge surprise you see iOS updates. To be fair, most people could not bother updating iOS and it would barely affect their everyday use.
But, theres a huge difference between relatively minor iOS updates and huge issues where functionality is no longer available, as the op mentions in his letter. These are huge. It's like Apple suddenly removing Airplay from iOS 11.3. Or, worse, cancelling iTunes and everyone's accounts, so you can't access your purchasd music.
So an update, I did receive a reply from Denmark, which I have pasted below:
Subject Compliments and Constructive comments re Bang& Olufsen. Response By Email (xxxxxxxxxxx) (21/12/2017 11.30 AM) Dear Mr David Coyne, We acknowledge receipt of your complaint to Mr Henrik Clausen, who has asked Customer Service to respond to you. First of all we are indeed very sorry to learn about the problems you have experienced with some of your more recently purchased Bang & Olufsen products; issues of which most are software related. Let there be no doubt that the BeoSound Moment software when introduced, did not deliver the intended flawless and smooth user experience. However, with the extensive software upgrade earlier this year, we find that the product performance has improved significantly which is also supported by the feedback we receive from most customers. Therefore it is also with much regret that we shall have to cease production of BeoSound Moment with immediate effect due to lack of component issues with one of our suppliers. We have put much effort into finding alternative solutions to keep the production going but regrettably without success. It is important for us to underline that we shall of course continue to implement improvements in the product and provide service of the product for all existing customers. We hope this explains the situation in a satisfactory way and once again apologize for the inconvenience caused. Season's Greetings from Bang & Olufsen Kind regards,xxxxxxxx(Ms) | Customer Service Bang & Olufsen A/S | Peter Bangs Vej 15 | DK-7600 Struer | Denmarkwww.bang-olufsen.com| www.beoplay.com
My Response to B & O below:
Dear XXXXXX
Quite interesting to me is the reason given for the Moment being discontinued: problems sourcing component(s). Is this just bad luck / bad timing, or this is B&O amateur hour for operations.
Hmmm,
So you buy a product that doesn't work, you get offered your money back because of that and then you opted to buy even more stuff that doesn't work?
Are you suggesting i have mental health problems LOL :)
All the Moments I've ever sold have just become either ornaments, or a fancy 'AUX' conduit - including my own, which I sold after about 4 months.
I think the response is pretty poor. Reading between the lines they've basically admitted it was a mess from day one, there are still plenty of people who aren't happy, and they've thrown the towel in on the whole project as it's just not worth the effort going forward.
Or am I just being cynical?
Lee
Thats probably a fair and honest response Lee.
Happy New Year to you.
P.s The Beocentre 2 I bought from you all those years ago is still working beautifully (as a standalone radio/ cd player)
That said, now it's discontinued they'll probably end up getting the software right and it'll be a nice, useable product. That does seem to be the way these days. Release it full of faults, then discontinue it, then get it sorted.
Ah well.
9 LEE: That said, now it's discontinued they'll probably end up getting the software right and it'll be a nice, useable product. That does seem to be the way these days. Release it full of faults, then discontinue it, then get it sorted. Ah well. Lee
A dream scenario for a reseller of such products.
Just wait untill they are discontionued and the problems wth them are sorted out ;-))
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: A dream scenario for a reseller of such products.
.... and a nightmare scenario for the poor dealer who is selling them brand new.
9 LEE: Millemissen: A dream scenario for a reseller of such products. .... and a nightmare scenario for the poor dealer who is selling them brand new. Lee
If anyone wants them second life...too often by the time things get fixed the items have such a bad reputation no one wants to take the chance. FWIW, General Motors has had a long and storied history of the same. Corvair? Original ones with swing axles were awful, the last ones with true IRS and especially the Monza version were the closest America ever came to making a 911, they were very good. Same for the old Fiero, original 4 bangers were dreadful, the last V6 models were quite nice little cars and pretty quick.
I think in B&O's case under Tue they felt the need to push out a lot of new products rapidly in order to float the share price and attract investors, make it look like the company wasn't moribund. So they pushed out a lot of half baked, not ready for prime time, all the bugs not worked out products. Unfortunately, they did that so well it appears to have become a habit, part of the "new" corporate culture.
David Coyne: Thats probably a fair and honest response Lee. Happy New Year to you. P.s The Beocentre 2 I bought from you all those years ago is still working beautifully (as a standalone radio/ cd player)
David,
As many Beoworld members have noted most new products have software bugs no matter what brand you buy and I think that this is accepted by most reasonable people.
However, what is not acceptable is when a product has basic functionality issues which are clear cut and this is what I see with the moment. In the UK this is what our "Trading Standards" organisation calls "Not fit for Purpose" and we even have laws which govern your rights in such a situation and I would be surprised if it is not a similar situation in Australia. Also, most company's as a matter of urgency put effort into resolving such basic software issues very quickly, often in just a few days, but not B&O, you are lucky to get an update 6 months later and frankly that is the core of the problem.
By now, if I was in your position I would have sent the product back and demanded my money back from the dealer who sold you the Moment. If enough people were to do that it would hopefully put pressure on B&O from their dealers who are also under pressure. That said, the problem is however that B&O don't seem to care about their dealers any more and certainly don't support them in the way they did years ago, so this action may hurt your dealer who is trying to provide good service to you for a product they have no control over and receive little support when there is a problem.
In B&O's latest interim report they have re-confirmed that their on-going business strategy is to dramatically reduce the B&O dealerships and build the 3rd party distribution which they are achieving based on the quoted figures in their report.
Regards Keith....
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia
Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4
Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/
Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Mikipedia:Fun fact, i’ve just been told us eclipse owners will get an update every two weeks. However most of them won’t do anything other than turn back an internal date counter because otherwise the tv locks up and has to be factory reset every two weeks or so. So if it’s dire, they’re able/willing to not have a true disaster on their hands
That really sounds strange, and something I really find not to be true ? If this was the problem, then the first SW update after this "discovery" would fix it. And if it was a HW failure, they would be fixed.
Having a TV dependent on a approx. 14days SW update to be working, I really really doubt is true.
/Jacob
I can confirm the info from Mikipedia.
Hi Roger, Do You know if there is a "fix" ongoing from B&O for this softwareproblem with Eclipse?/Martin
NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
@Martin - as Mikipedia wrote, they are aware of the issue ("they know where the issues is" is correct - it's in the SoundCenter ) and they do not have a final solution available. So, as it stands, the TV will shut down 16 days after a sw update - to mitigate this they will push a release before this counter hits 16. The current release came on Jan 2nd (2/1-2018 1.2.18278). B&O have promised the dealers a fix within January. There are multiple sw errors reported that they are working on.
Roger: as it stands, the TV will shut down 16 days after a sw update - to mitigate this they will push a release before this counter hits 16 Roger
as it stands, the TV will shut down 16 days after a sw update - to mitigate this they will push a release before this counter hits 16
So if someone loses internet access for a few days, their TV stops working? So many ways that could happen! Bad weather? Power outage? Moving? There goes your TV!!
This is astonishing!
Sources: 2x Beosound Moment • 4x Beosound Essence Mk II Speakers: 3x Beolab 8000 • 2x Beolab 6000 • 2x Beolab 3 • 3x Beolab 2 Integrated: 1x Beosound 2 • 1x Beosound Level • 4x BeoPlay M5 • 1x BeoPlay A6 Control: 16x* Essence Remote • 1x Beoremote Halo
* Yes, really! 🤦♂️