ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello Beoworlders,
On the way to buy a NL product, I have to add a NL/ML converter to my system.
The user guide on B&O's website does not give any clue on how to configure the product.
I guess it's through an application, but who can give me the manual?Last point, what's the RPP of this converter?
Thanks by advance,
Yann.
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elephant:There is no decent in depth official manual (so far). However there is a dense PowerPoint deck that is meant to be read by installers. Reading it is a start - reading it many times is essential. There is a thread in one off forums. If you cannot find it let us all know or send me a PM.
Thanks Elefant,
I did not find the PowerPoint you are talking of and if you could email it to me, it would surely help.
Here is the schematic of my setup, with the newcomer in red.
How to configure the NLML converter in order to have a bi-directional music distribution?
Any advice appreciated.
There's a installation pdf that someone here shared previously - I can't remember which thread, so unfortunately can't give that person the credit they deserve.
I've added it to my dropbox as it is too big to attach here directly.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihmcjen1p0bmj81/BLC_NL-ML%20Installation%20Guide%20Ver.%201.2.pdf?dl=1
Hope this helps,
Martin.
Thank you Martin.
Havé à great week-end
Yann
Hi Yann,
I've been to collect some parts from my dealer today and he was kind enough to download and email me a copy of the latest installation manual (version 1.4). I haven't looked yet to see what had changed / been added but I've made it available at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7hkg4p9t8f1sfo/BeoLink%20Converter%20NLML%20%28ver.%201.4%29.pdf?dl=1
Kind Regards,
Thank you again Martin.
Kind regards,
YannChris:Thanks Elefant, I did not find the PowerPoint you are talking of and if you could email it to me, it would surely help. Here is the schematic of my setup, with the newcomer in red. How to configure the NLML converter in order to have a bi-directional music distribution? Any advice appreciated. Thanks by advance, Yann.
YannChris: Thanks Elefant, I did not find the PowerPoint you are talking of and if you could email it to me, it would surely help.
Riverstyx (Martin) beat me to it - not only with the 1.2 version I had but also a better more readable 1.4 version !
I hope that you are able to digest the 7 examples and apply them to your installation.
Mine was much simpler yet it took me several weekends to get it working.
Hi Elefant,
Thanks for you answer.
I spent some time reading the manual last evening and found it really useful.
Especially because it explains the logic of the "mode" determination for the BLC.
It seems that example 8 applies to my situation, with a Moment replacing the V1 in the bedroom.
My guess is that NL/ML converter should be placed in "Center Source" mode.
Am I right?
YannChris: It seems that example 8 applies to my situation, with a Moment replacing the V1 in the bedroom. My guess is that NL/ML converter should be placed in "Center Source" mode. Am I right?
Yep, that's right. You already have an audio master (providing CD, RADIO etc) and a video master (providing TV, DTV, DVD, V.MEM etc) on the ML side, but no ML source center (providing N.MUSIC and N.RADIO) so your ML/NL converter is able to take on this role.
elephant:Riverstyx (Martin) beat me to it - not only with the 1.2 version I had but also a better more readable 1.4 version !
Thanks elephant. The main reason I asked for an up-to-date copy of the installation guide was because I though it might have been updated to include details of the Power box - it hasn't, but the new version does seem to do a better job of explaining things more clearly. In particular, I like the appendix examples showing "customer is replacing X masterlink device with Y netlink device" as that is quite effective in demonstrating the concepts to those of us familiar with masterlink but less familiar with netlink.
Hi riverstyx,
thank you very, very much for the new manual.
@ all
I would like to ask for help
I've found my configuration "BS-Moment - A Master" on the pages 26 and 42 in the new manual.
2 days ago I've bought a essence as a 'failsafe' for the Moment and installed it in the office with a S8-set. The essence is connected to the same switch like the NL/ML Converter and the Moment.
Now, I can "join" with the essence-remote and the beoMusic-App any source my Moment is playing.
That is really great. The only thing what I didn't get working is the other direction. I can not "join" with the BS-Moment to sources playing on the essence.
Is this even possible? I saw on the whitepaper (BeoLinkMultiroomWhitePaper.pdf) on page 10 that the Moment can display a LinkTab, where you can "join" other NL-devices - even a Essence.
But in my case, I am not able to get/activate this Link-Tab. Is somebody out there, who could point me in the right direction?
Thank you and Cheers Beroli
Here just the picture from my configuration. Just imagine instead of the BeoLink-Active a Essence in the Office connected to the ethernet-switch in the technical room.
and this is the Link-Tab, which I am missing on my BS-Moment to 'Join" the Essence
I really need a hint.
Thank you
Beroli
Hi mjmedlo,
thanks for your advices. I did a lot power cycles before I posted my cry for help
I thought, I am now pretty familiar with the NL/ML Converter, since I have it since May with my Moment. it seems I overlooked something. I even started from scratch with the converter, that means: factory-reset, power-cycles between and after the setup.
The BS-Moment recognizes all NL-Devices - but no LINK-Tab is on the screen.
here are the settings-pages from the NL/ML Converter
As I wrote, the essence is able to "Join" perfectly the sources on the BS-Moment = but my Moment is not willing to participate/join on the tasks from the BS Essence. The only thing I have not done is a factory-reset on the Moment. I was hoping for a solution or answer, which could spare me this pain.
maybe the Link-tab is a myth in a setup like mine.
Thanks for your help in advance.
Cheers Beroli
After you have started playing a source on the essence (or on your masterlink network given you have the NL/ML converter), the link tab should appear on the moment to allow you to join that source. Are you saying the link tab never appears, or that it never shows for essence sources?
Either way, I can't think of anything else you can try other than a factory reset of the moment...
riverstyx: After you have started playing a source on the essence (or on your masterlink network given you have the NL/ML converter), the link tab should appear on the moment to allow you to join that source. Are you saying the link tab never appears, or that it never shows for essence sources? Either way, I can't think of anything else you can try other than a factory reset of the moment... Martin.
Yes, thats right. I added the essence to my setup and the link tab never appeared or never showed any essence sources.
The installation of the Essence, was a walk in the garden and it works like a charm. Thank you riverstyx.
I will try the factory reset on the Moment (again 😭 ) and give some feeedback in about 1-2 days.
Dear Beroli;
Could the Beolink Book V1.7 be of any help. I had myself no time to read it, but there's something about Moment and Link... Before you reset...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjonux7c4m7jmpy/EN-BeoLink-handbook-v1-7.pdf?dl=0
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Thanks for that new version :-)
By the way - if anyone should doubt, that B&O is different from the lot of other A or A/V companies, you just have to show him this documentation.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
@ mjmedlo
yes it is a essence mk2
@ Chris
thank you very much for the Bible on BeoLink. I had a older version of it. Therefore a welcomed gift.
I have found the reason, why the LINK-Tab didn't showed up on the jukebox-Display.
It seems, it is a bug. In the speaker-setup from the BS-Moment, you can choose for the Moment to use the speakers connected to the TV. If you do this, the Moment will not show the LINK-Tab with the other NL-sources. But if you switch off the option to use the Speakers connected to the TV, the LINK-Tab will appear after a reset. I can reproduce this issue as much I want to.
Switching off the said TV-Speaker-connection will result is some new functions. Now you can join the Essence-source, because the LINK-Tab is there. When using the Beoremote One, I see now on the Jukebox-Display the changes in the volume-level. The digits of the volume-level were not seen on the jukebox, if you had to switch on the TV-Speaker-connection.
If the TV-Speaker-connection is off, you can not change the Volume on the small wheel on the Jukebox - but you will see the digits running down/Up - but without any real changes of the Volume. Changing the volume for good is only possible, with the BeoRemote One. Naturally you can not switch on the whole setup by pressing just one button on the Jukebox. You have to switch on the TV manually with the remote.
In the End, switching off the TV-Speaker-connection in the settings of the Beosound Moment is not an option for me. Losing the ability to start with one-button, not being able to change the Volume on the Jukebox itself, makes it worse - even if I „win“ the said Join & display-volume - functions.
I sent a mail including pictures and screenshots to B&O. I am sure, they will fix it.
In the past weeks I spent hours in talking, writing & testing to support B&O. The latest Software is a big step forward. If the cache from the jukebox is full, the jukebox will switch on and off in some less seconds. Therefore - no additional paperclip-resets on the jukebox are necessary. The device is much snappier, quicker and much more stable. Worth buying - finally. The BeoMusic App has improved as well. Now I can skip to the next track in my own playlist. Awesome. I still hope, they will add a shuffle-function for the playlists in the BeoMusic App as well.
This option (use TV speakers) in the BS Moment setup menu is there for a reason! It is used for the "integrated" setups where you do not have speakers connected to the BS Moment and you want to use either ML TV through BLC or a NL TV speakers.
If you disable this you should connect speakers directly to your BS Moment and you are able to control and use the BS Moment as any other B&O audio product. Keep in mind that toggling this feature off/on will result changes in NL configuration and you may now need to reconfigure your mappings in BLC.
Kulles: This option (use TV speakers) in the BS Moment setup menu is there for a reason! It is used for the "integrated" setups where you do not have speakers connected to the BS Moment and you want to use either ML TV through BLC or a NL TV speakers. If you disable this you should connect speakers directly to your BS Moment and you are able to control and use the BS Moment as any other B&O audio product. Keep in mind that toggling this feature off/on will result changes in NL configuration and you may now need to reconfigure your mappings in BLC.
Hi Kulles,
... bad day at the office? You can believe me, that I know, that this option is there for a reason - i have 5 speakers connected to my TV and I dont want to change my setup in a simple stereo configuration with 2 speakers connected to the BS-Moment. So there is no reason for your exclamation marks. Please keep in mind, that I wasn't "toggling" with this feature without any reason and I am aware, that any changes in the NL-setup will need some mapping reconfigurations afterwards.
I was just explaining, that by switching off the TV-speaker-configuration the Link-Tab appears and that the Link-Tab should be visible and usable in a intergrated setup like mine too. Therfore I was running tests. After a factory reset on the NL/ML converter (that is the name of the new device after the BLC), I configurated just the Essence in the setup, then I switched on the BS Moment and recognized that the Link-Tab appeared out of the blue. In the next step, I activated in the speaker-setup the TV-speaker-connection - with the unwanted result, that the Link-Tab with the symbol to join the Essence disapeared. I tried all possible reconfiguration-ways - without a proper result.
Some years ago, I had a MX7000 and a ouverture with a Converter in a similar setup. If anyone would tell you, that you will lose advertised functions - like "Join", just by activating a common speaker-setup, you would call him in your same kind way, that he must be joking. So please, before you get more agitated, my post was just about a observation, regarding a still unsolved problem in my common setup.
BR Beroli
Hi Beroli,
In another thread, you spoke of the utility of a to-do-list in order to smoothen the installation of a Moment in a setup and ensure flawless operation of the product.
Unfortunately such a list does not exist, but could you summarize -in the light of your experience- what should to be done?
I think of buying a Moment and want to be ready...
Thanks in advance and kind regards,
Beroli: i have 5 speakers connected to my TV and I dont want to change my setup in a simple stereo configuration with 2 speakers connected to the BS-Moment.
I wonder if the 'Link' button would be disappearing also if using 5 Wisa equipped speakers in this setup.
I think, now is the best time to start with the Moment. Most of the crippling bugs and issues are solved. There is still a way to go to be as flawless, as the Essence, but the Moment-setup is more fragile, because the whole processing of your own content depends heavy on your preparation.
Let's start
1. Network
It is mandatory, that you have a stable network. So please make sure and test in advance, that you will have no drop-outs or package losses, from the place where you want to install the Moment. A perfect tool, to determine/examine your whole Network for your iPhone is FLING. The best way would be to use a Laptop and to try to ping your Server, Router.... The response times should be as low as possible. Sometimes a old switch or router can cause you headaches with the Moment. But nowadays switches are cheap and easy to exchange.
WIFI: WIFI is needed for the communication between the Soundheart (Base) and the Jukebox (tablet). In the first setup of your moment, you have to login in your WIFI-Network (5GHz is not supported). Your Wifi SSID should have no special characters (like &). B&O explicitly decided against special character to avoid support troubles with all the possible keyboard-configurations all over the world. If the Moment shows your SSID (including special characters), it doesn't mean the device will log in. You will stuck in the next step of the first setup, without knowing why.
Use a wifi scanner to determine the best stable channel of your WIFI network. The better your Wifi, the better and faster is your Moment experience.
2. Server
If you want to use your music/content on your Moment, you will need a server. This server should be running 24/7. Using a Laptop is possible too. But sometimes, when the Moment is missing the content, while you away, she will do some crazy stuff (errors, messed up databases - even when reconnected again) Until now, the Moment works best with a Twonky-based Server. I saw in your very nice chart, that you already own a QNAP (most of them have a Twonky-server integrated or it is possible to install Twonky on it) The Twonky-Server-Software is available for Mac and PC as well. When you get your Moment you can apply for a Serialnumber from the B&O-Homepage for free. I use a mac mini, since my Synology wasn't supported very well. With the latest update on the BS-Moment, the "other-than-Twonky-DLNA-Servers" should have improved very much. I could not test it (to much work, less time)
3. Your music collection on the Server
It is most important, time-eating and crucial, that your music-collection is well sorted and well tagged. If you don't want to invest to much time in sorting and tagging, I recommend, you use mainly Deezer and search for your loved music there. A lot of Moment-owners do this and they are very happy with a only-Deezer and TuneIN solution. (btw: don't forget to create a TuneIn-account)
But - if you want to have your music - then I recommend the posts from Chris and JoostdenEngelsman in the thread "One month with the Moment" started by Hiort http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/14241.aspx?PageIndex=5 . There you will find the best hints, how to organize your music-collection, how to create playlists. If you take these advices to your heart, you will have a well-sorted experience with the BS-Moment.
Before the latest update - the first processing of your music-collection took, depending on the size (number of tracks), very long. (30k tracks = 30 hours). Now, with the latest update B&O found a solution to shorten the processing extensively. (30k tracks = less than 12 hours)
If you need more informations, please check the thread "One month with the Moment". I wrote some posts there too http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/14241.aspx?PageIndex=14 . So I am pretty sure, that you will have your time well spent by reading and preparing until the arrival of your new BS-Moment.
Chris: Beroli: i have 5 speakers connected to my TV and I dont want to change my setup in a simple stereo configuration with 2 speakers connected to the BS-Moment. I wonder if the 'Link' button would be disappearing also if using 5 Wisa equipped speakers in this setup.
Hi Chris
I think, the "Link" button would be there. Unfortunately, only my BeoLab 18 is equipped with wisa and I don't want to invest more in additional hardware to connect the other speakers over Wisa. I am more the "only-cable-is-stable-guy". I don't know, if the speakers are connected to the Moment - will I still have 5.1, dolby digital ... or is it mandatory to use the Bang & Olufsen System integrated in the TV? That would be logical to me. I even don't know, how many speakers the Moment can handle.
I got the information from my dealer, that the NL-setup needs to be done in a certain sequence to have the "Link"-tab. I have just 3 devices and I think I tried all possible sequences. I will know it for sure, when I got the feedback from B&O.
The Moment can handle up to 8 speakers - cabled and/or WiSA.
It is stereo only.
When the Moment is set up to use the speaker/s of a NL-BV, the tv handles the 'Join' function..
When the Moment has its own speakers, it handles the 'Join' function....and the 'Link' button is there.
Millemissen:It is stereo only.
You're sure? I did understand that it has the same sound board as all the BSys4 based tv's.
Never tried it with speakers connected though.
Millemissen:The Moment can handle up to 8 speakers - cabled and/or WiSA.
the "or" is incorrect in this sentence. You have two PL connectors on the Moment = maximum of 4 speakers
Beroli,
A great thank you for these explanations
I feel more confident for the installation.
How about 'daisychaining'.
Important thing is, that you can mix cabled and wireless speakers.
Carolpa: Millemissen:It is stereo only. You're sure? I did understand that it has the same sound board as all the BSys4 based tv's. Never tried it with speakers connected though. Millemissen:The Moment can handle up to 8 speakers - cabled and/or WiSA. the "or" is incorrect in this sentence. You have two PL connectors on the Moment = maximum of 4 speakers
Have you ever seen anything in the setup of the SoundHeart, that should indicate a multichannel possibility?
When speakers are connected directly, you can choose speakers type and right/left.
And why would you expect multichannel possibilities in an audio system, where all sources are stereo (or mono)?
Only way to get multichannel to the Moment, would be using DLNA - but I am certain, that the audio engine would downmix to stereo in that case.
Sure it's the same audio engine as working in the BSYS4-based tv's. But there are several different software versions of that engine.
Hi Barry,
I've no picture to offer, but:
The jukebox is the part that looks like a giant ipod on one side and an oak slab with a cup mark on the other
The soundheart is what's left - eg the base that the jukebox sits on, and into which you plug your cables.
Hope this helps...
Easy to find pictures...
The 'tablet controller' is the Jukebox and the 'base with audio engine etc and charger' is the Soundheart.