ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I've seen quite a few things in the 15 or so years of buying B&O products, mostly from the local Bath store.
A few months ago the Cardiff B&O branch, who are opening the new store (opens 17 November), came on here and sounded slightly arrogant that they'll be doing a far better job than the previous owner. I mentioned I thought it was a bit arrogant to boast to existing store customers before you open the store. They did exactly the same thing when they called existing Bath customers. So I told them they were being a bit arrogant. Did they apologise, agree or disagree?
I noticed this morning that they've blocked me following them on Twitter and clearly don't want my long-standing custom. Slightly odd when they don't know who they are actually blocking.
I've seen some B&O store arrogance over the years, but this is simply incredible.
No bother though - plenty of other places you can buy B&O equipment and they clearly underestimate my presence around Bath, too. Glad they already know, with foresight, that they can make a success of this local market, whilst at the same time choosing to annoy long-standing existing customers.
Would love to know what B&O UK think about this kind of franchise management.
Well, giving a promise to do better than whomever you replace as a business can't be that bad, can it?
No offence, and I do not know how you expressed your view, but maybe they thought you where arrogant?
Communication is all about how the receiver perceive it.
/C
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
In all fairness Hiort, the previous B&O store in Bath was superb. The staff were purely excellent so very arrogant and heartless of the new store owners to criticise - maybe these new lot are new money low class get rich types. Times will see!
I'm sorry for Moxxey a real ambassador to the brand, often to his peril when something didn't quite perform well. It's about time business treat humans with respect as this is exactly what has made such a mess in the world today!
Anyway Moxxey, maybe you can make a trip to Sheffield, as the guys there are genuine, knowledgable and put their customers first. I'm sure a few other showrooms are like that, they are the ones who deserve to succeed!
Hiort: No offence, and I do not know how you expressed your view, but maybe they thought you where arrogant?
I have zero issues with any company saying they are going to do something better. But they told me - boasted in fact - that the previous owner did a pretty poor job and even laughed by the fact he had installed a kitchen in his showroom etc etc. Overlooking that some of us might know the previous store owner personally and/or felt he did a fairly decent job, was an honest guy. No need for the personal knocking. I've seen worse store owners than the previous Bath store owner, I can assure you.
I simply said that this kind of comes across as arrogant. Move in their first, prove yourself, then allow your *customers* to make the decision on whether you're doing a great job.
Also, however much a business owner doesn't like the opinion of any (potential) customer, having the arrogance to ban them, really isn't the solution.
Paul W: In all fairness Hiort, the previous B&O store in Bath was superb. The staff were purely excellent so very arrogant and heartless of the new store owners to criticise - maybe these new lot are new money low class get rich types. Times will see!
Correct. And I don't take well to people calling me at work to boast how well they'll run the new store and how badly the old store owner performed, laughing at his mis-management. Cringe-worthy, almost.
The thing is, I just told them I found it arrogant. No need to be banned. I'd still have come in to the store next week. I'd have still given them time to prove themselves. Just plain bizarre.
The whole thing has got out proportion. A guy called Richard made a small quip about a feature of the showroom he felt was going to turn out much better in his opinion. I sense more pride in the new design than shooting down some poor bloke down.
http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/14682/134932.aspx#134932
I'm sure it'll be a great store and anyone can choose to buy from where they like.
Best of luck to everyone.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
mawheele: The whole thing has got out proportion. A guy called Richard made a small quip about a feature of the showroom he felt was going to turn out much better in his opinion. I sense more pride in the new design than shooting down some poor bloke down.
No, they called my office a few times too.
But, the point is. I had no major issue anyhow. I only have an issue *since* they banned me. If it wasn't for that, I'd have been in my regular local store as normal. They've created an issue for themselves, 'small quip' (or call) or not.
Didn't the poster in that other thread (Richard) just claim to be a customer who knew the new owner? Moxxey didn't say anything direct to the new owner.
After rereading the old thread I'd suggest PaulW checks whether he has been blocked too! (Presumably that only works if you use the same ID in different forums/ Facebook/twitter?)
Graham
I could be helpful to have a shop database with customer experience rating. Even B&O should ask a review to the customer after buying or visiting a shop.
Hey Moxxey, looks like you've been blocked from their Twitter feed but I don't think that automatically means you are banned fromp the store. Or is that what they've said to you?
If that's the case, it's shocking. They badgered you with phone calls, apparently belittled the previous store and workers etc. That's no way to behave in any retail environment. Sounds like Bath deserve an early Bath.. If they treat any people like that in the shop, they won't last long and deservedly so.
B&O developed a reputation for arrogant sales people over time which put many people off visiting the stores and harmed the brand. That has largely been overcome, in-part beacause of the Play brand. This tale could just reinforce the previously held feelings. Outstanding!
So a B&O store has a 'kitchen' and is derided. A kitchen shop I know, once had B&O equipment for their music. Should they have been derided for having HiFi equipment in a kitchen shop?
Dave.
benoit: I could be helpful to have a shop database with customer experience rating. Even B&O should ask a review to the customer after buying or visiting a shop.
That has been suggested previously, along with experiences with resellers. Didn't really go anywhere.
One problem with things like that is that people who have bad experiences are more likely to complain than people who have good experiences, praise. Fact of life I'm afraid. That would really skew the data to look more negative than reality in most cases. One answer may be for B&O to question buyers via e-mail and a link to a questionnaire as all new products are registered to the buyers. I can't see that happening either.
It's ok Vikinger, I don't have a Twitter account. More into Instagram as it's purely visual and positive :)
A picture from the B&O Cardiff showroom which (and I could be wrong) appears to have a small but perfectly formed kitchen area.
Duels: A picture from the B&O Cardiff showroom which (and I could be wrong) appears to have a small but perfectly formed kitchen area.
Very nicely done...does the Avant slide back to reveal the entrance to Torchwood?
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Duels:A picture from the B&O Cardiff showroom which (and I could be wrong) appears to have a small but perfectly formed kitchen area.
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
BeoNut since '75
I have found that some dealers have been arrogant, I remember going into one store (now closed) to look at buying a Beovision 5 and beosound 9000, after waiting 20 minutes while the guy talked to mate about their football plans for the weekend, he didn't even say hello as I walked in. I eventually walked out without him even saying anything to me. I still think that some dealers still display this attitude today, and I know my wife now doesn't like to go into dealerships from some past experiences.
we even went to a large store where they had Loewe TVs next to b&o as my wife wanted to look at other alternatives, the Loewe guy spent 30 minutes going through the TV options and the set up and how to connect it to our beolabs the B&o side nothing, it seemed no one was around so we walked away with ,e trying to convince the wife that B&O was still a viable option for our house.
luckily I managed to pick up a V1 and a few Essemce mk2s from a nice re-seller so didn't have to deal with any dealers and kept the wife happy!
The Cardiff store looks great.
0badgersurf - I've seen this so many times in B&O stores it's depressing. It's as if they are too good to allow you to buy their product. Helps keep it elite I suppose if they can't be bothered to try to sell any.
Of course it isn't all B&O stores. We are all well aware of some excellent ones and with superb and knowlegable staff. Unfortunately, some of those have even been forced to close. It's a shame when any store closes but with attitudes like that, they deserve to fail.
Whilst in Manchester a few weeks ago, I called into the Bose store in the main shopping mall. I clearly explained that I was a B&O fan and had never listened to any Bose equipment, wasn't going to buy anything etc but the assistant discussed lots about hifi, Bose equipment (never denigrated B&O to his credit) and took me through the whole range with demonstrations inside their two listening rooms. I was there about 30 minutes with his full attention despite the store being busy. Very professional and much appreciated. Contrast that to the above!
Then went into the Manchester B&O store hoping to see and listen to the new A6 (not realising it hadn't been released in the UK yet!). Again, clearly not going to buy and explained who I was, why I was there etc and spent a good 40 minutes discussing B&O products, company strategy, upcoming products, dealership issues and a host of other stuff. Again, a joy to be in-store with knowledgable and courteous staff.
Two great experiences to help counter the poor ones. Even if I'm ever in Bath in te future, I think I'll give the store a miss.
Mark: .. it's like Aston Martin black listing James Bond
.. it's like Aston Martin black listing James Bond
With the amount of damage he's done to them over the years I'm not surprised!
Rudeness and Arrogance - perhaps the new store owners have been watching the new Apprentice series!
The dealers I have been into in Guildford, Islington, Hampstead (when it was there) and Palmers Green have been fantastic - even though I didn't buy anything - hope it remains that way and that this isn't the start of some new trend
As for the kitchen - I think it's probably better referred to as Hospitality Facilities- mainly drinks and biscuits, not uncommon with customers spending £000's on high end products
Sure I have been to shops, where I felt 'uncomfortable'.
And I have been to many with a more friendly approach - so to speak.
But it was much worse in the 'old days'!
This is one of the challenges, that the management in Struer has - I am sure they are aware of that.
A change in the 'retail-culture' is needed.
But it is not an easy task - it will take time.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
I think banning Moxxey was a little bit knee-jerk and they may regret the fallout from it, but perhaps they didn't know who he was and suspected he was a 'Twitter Troll' looking to ruin their launch?
I'm sure they're spending a lot of money on this store, and launch, and are perhaps just being a little (too) protective of it in order for things to go as smoothly as possible? I'm just sitting on the fence here, trying to see it from both sides...
As for stores being arrogant, I think the biggest issue they face is ignorance. The product knowledge of the staff in many stores is frankly so poor it's laughable - and I deal with many of them on a daily basis.
You buy the salesman as much as the brand when you're spending a lot of money. You need reassurance you're not wasting your money, the person selling it to you knows what's best for you, and if something goes wrong it'll be sorted swiftly and expertly. It's a high value purchase from a premium brand - so it's right to expect that.
However, on many occasions the person facing the customer in the shop has very little knowledge and relies on standard sales patter and bullsh*t. That doesn't work because in order to afford B&O the chances weigh heavily in favour of the customer not being stupid...
How many times have we all had a great experience when the sales person knows their product inside out. They know exactly what it can do, they can tell you, they can show you, they know exactly what the competition can and can't do compared to the product you're interested in, they know the technical specs, they know what's coming in the future - and how this product will integrate, and they can explain exactly how the product will work in YOUR home doing everything YOU need it to do. A brilliant salesman leaves you not having to think - just hand over the money and move on to the next pressing job in your list of things to do.
However, back to the salesman who says "errrrrr....." a lot, looks confused when you ask him or her a question and has to go and look up the answer, then comes back with a half-answer clothed in evasive answers, and you're compelled to walk - even though you really want to buy the product.
So, is arrogance a result of ignorance? If you're not confident in your product knowledge you just wait for someone to flap their wallet at you. Otherwise, avoid contact because they might ask questions you don't know the answer to...
Food for thought.
Lee
Rolf: Less food for thought and more thought. //Rolf
Less food for thought and more thought.
//Rolf
Or less reading and move on to something which interests you instead?
However, I've moved the thread - as per your request.
Rolf: Would it be possible for the site moderators to consider either setting a "UK Forum" so that highly UK localized (i.e. totally uninteresting for the rest of the world) discussions such as this can be held there (as already in place for the nordics etc.). Either that or move the whole thread to the B&O Lifestyle forum. Less food for thought and more thought. //Rolf
Would it be possible for the site moderators to consider either setting a "UK Forum" so that highly UK localized (i.e. totally uninteresting for the rest of the world) discussions such as this can be held there (as already in place for the nordics etc.). Either that or move the whole thread to the B&O Lifestyle forum.
The discussions in this thread were triggered from the (bad) experience Moxxey had with one shop, yes.
But most of, what has been said in the following posts, is indeed relevant to every B&O buyer/enthusiast no matter where in the world.
I can recognize this from my visits in shops in Denmark and certainly (!) from visits to German shops.
This is not a UK specific issue!
9 LEE: Rolf: Less food for thought and more thought. //Rolf Or less reading and move on to something which interests you instead? However, I've moved the thread - as per your request. Lee
Something odd going on here. 'Rolf' seems to have disappeared. Half his threads are gone. You can find some threads ... his avatar is blank.....
vikinger: Something odd going on here. 'Rolf' seems to have disappeared. Half his threads are gone. You can find some threads ... his avatar is blank..... Graham
Rolf has emailed me and requested his account to be deleted as soon as possible from BeoWorld, along with the 13 posts made on his profile.
He feels the site has deteriorated, it has been a tragic development, and I acted like an ass in my last post in reply to his.
There, I can't be any more transparent than that..
elephant:When they were in Gray/Grey Street the Newcastle store had equipped their basement area as an apartment complete with kitchenette and living room to demonstrate BeoLiving. I always thought it was a great facility !
The present shop has a very flash downstairs and is also very well equipped. Been invited to the 90th party but simply too busy. However I am sure it will be a great night as Newcastle are one of the most welcoming stores and famed for their hospitality.
We did think of doing store reviews - I was going to start with Newcastle but we wondered if B&O would really approve and also would want this to be an honest review rather than simply advertising. It was felt this might make some stores uncomfortable and possibly prey to someone with a grudge.
Peter
That is indeed sad!
I am pretty sure, that you (Lee) meant 'instead move on to another for you more interesting thread'.
One of the great things with Beoworld is, that there is plenty of room for everyone interested in the B&O stuff.
Can this be redone?
Maybe someone has a direct contact to Rolf, and could ask his to reconsider?
I dont think you did - the discussion had moved onto encompass other stores not just that specific UK one.
I am interested anyway in peoples experiences of B&O in other countries as well as my own.
If there is a thread someone isn't interested in, then just don't read it - there are plenty of other interesting threads and forums.
I wouldn't worry - this is a great site with interesting people, topics and discussions and everyone i am sure appreciates the hard work put in by the moderators.
Millemissen:I am pretty sure, that you (Lee) meant 'instead move on to another for you more interesting thread'.
This is exactly what I meant, but Rolf made it clear this was 'the last straw' - or in his own words 'the drop of water which made the jug overflow' (which also makes perfect sense).
Of course, I respect his decision and genuinely wish him well. I never want people to feel like this, but sometimes things change - and not always the way everyone wants.
I will not discuss this further as Rolf clearly cannot (and does not want to) post his thoughts or feelings on this, so I feel this is not really fair to discuss it in his absence.
On the subject of quality of B&O stores:
I always feel a little bit uneasy to give out a judgment on a dealer. I just am courageous enough to give a statement on MY experiences with certain dealers. And there is a sign in many shops in Germany telling: "Bist du zufrieden, sag es anderen, bist du es nicht, sag es mir." "If you are content, tell it to the people, if not, tell it to me."
On Moxxey's experience: Maybe a miracle happens in Bath and two people come to at least speaking terms ...
It would be very bad for a shop to loose an honest critic and bad for a B&O interested to have one place less to visit.
Peter the Biker: On the subject of quality of B&O stores: I always feel a little bit uneasy to give out a judgment on a dealer. I just am courageous enough to give a statement on MY experiences with certain dealers. And there is a sign in many shops in Germany telling: "Bist du zufrieden, sag es anderen, bist du es nicht, sag es mir." "If you are content, tell it to the people, if not, tell it to me."
Or in a VW shop " we're content not to tell the people and the people will believe us"!
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Ouch thats harsh with regards to VW. I still feel that they are an incredibly well built range of cars. And as someone who loves cycling, the amount of black fumes i've seen out of Ford Mondoe and Focus diesel exhausts suggests that many other car manufacturers are hiding real facts!
Paul W: Ouch thats harsh with regards to VW. I still feel that they are an incredibly well built range of cars. And as someone who loves cycling, the amount of black fumes i've seen out of Ford Mondoe and Focus diesel exhausts suggests that many other car manufacturers are hiding real facts!
The art of perceived quality and the assumption that this means good engineering works for VW for sure. But when they have to lie about the engineering that's when you have to question their prowess. A colleague was visiting a friend in Wolfsburg recently and he pointed out the fact that the gap on the bonnet of his new VW was zero on one side and 4mm on the other. His VW employee friend was having none of it. This is what has got VW into the mess they are currently in. It's interesting that Seat has suffered a bigger sales drop than the VW brand of late.
I can completely understand. This thread is inappropriate IMOP.
Some folks are trying to start a new business and its being unfairly being compromised before they've even got going. Lets be real, starting a B&O franchise is already incredibly difficult/impossible. You just need to look at how many stores have closed or changed hands in recent years.
Lets look back at what happened, a guy who knows a guy commented on a kitchen. This was then said to make the store arrogant. What?
Other than a few individuals who are directly related to this board, I don't believe anybody here has special clout due to strong opinions over the years. We are all just customers and I'm sure we will all be looked after very well as is the expectation of a franchisee.
Maybe they've over reacted in their actions. I'm sure if you were investing a great deal of your own personal money into starting a new business your passions may equally be as strong.
My suggestion would be that we call this a 'racing incident' and delete this thread as its doing this board and the store both harm - there are no winners here!
I think it's totally ok as this thread is interesting for all B&O customers and it should be VERY interesting to B&O itself!@Moxxey: As I just know you from the forum and to understand the wohle thread: Would you mind clearing up my mind about who you are? Via Email / PM is ok. :-)Personally I hate this kind of attitude of sales stuff and arrogant people in general! There are so many people who judge you just based on your look / appearance. It's sad and funny at the same time if you see there attitude changing as soon as they "smell" money... It's like they are Jekyll and Hide persons that revealed there true nature in the first moment of being arrogant. Will I give them any money when I'm treated like this? NEVER!This attitude is really dangerous for a brand like B&O that's suffering from falling sales and especially the nowadays dangerous and struggling TV market. B&O should have a reporting system especially for dealers like that! Review the dealers and if they treat a customer arrogant or with bad service they should get a call from Struer! If it happens more than a few times: Withdraw them the license to sell B&O equipment.There's it again: If I'm the CEO of B&O I would act this way! :-)B&O made enough mistakes in the past, they even refused to give a review unit to a german hifi magazine that wanted to compare the B&O stuff a few years ago... so it's time to phase out mistakes and secure the future of our beloved company!Who pays the salaries of the stuff in the stores, the great workers, designers, acoustical engineers, the board members and the CEO? The customer! To cite the CRESTRON company: It’s after the sale that a company reveals its true colors