ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Maybe it is just the way I select and read posts, but there does seem to be a tendency for some posters to buy (or claim to have bought) products, praise them ..... and then later condemn whatever it was that they so enjoyed in the past. In this I include non-B&O products like cameras and phones too.
Some of this may be due to personalities, some may reflect a genuine finding of problems with products, and some may just reflect a moving on to the latest product, rather like new washing powders always washing whiter than white generation after generation.
So do many threads tell us more about the posters rather than genuine product issues?
Graham
I still praise my BM4500/CD4500-combo - even if I have an Essence and use that a lot more than the CD4500.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
- Flere
smile and enjoy the moment
"You think we can slap some oak on this thing?"
I think that's a good point well made Graham. It's a question I've thought to ask many times...
However, even the first few posts have given me the gist of the answer. We get excited about a product, buy it, it doesn't work as it should, we dislike it, it then eventually works, and we grow to love it.
How great would it be if everything worked perfectly from day one - and you just KNEW that if you bought a Bang & Olufsen product you were 99.99% assured you'd have a trouble free purchase.
I have brands I buy without thinking twice about wether there'll be any problems now, or in the future. In the very rare event something goes wrong it's fixed immediately, with an apology - and often a further gesture of goodwill, although not expected. These brands always get my money and my business.
Lee
vikinger: So do many threads tell us more about the posters rather than genuine product issues? Graham
I find it very unfortunate that most people come to the forum to give expression to a problem they encounter with a device . It would be very helpful if people would reply to a solution some member brought forward.
But in most cases you don't get an answer anymore and everyone is groping in the dark.
Although my Moment is full of mistakes, after more then one year, I still love it and would not change it for another washing powder. I just sounds so nice, warm…
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
I think it's B&O with untrue claims or pure unreliability. Even the A1 is causing problems across the internet as KNOWN has managed more than 10 hours from the battery at low volume levels. Some get 2-3 hours at a high level. B&O's typical arrogant response on Instagram was 'Don't believe everything that you read' - translated, that means don't believe anything that you read from them!
They have to work harder at reliability. The H8s are a great example. £400 for a pair of headphones. £400!!! And yet bluetooth drop outs AND THEN people get send 'reconditioned' SECOND HAND replacements. The brand is a shambles and needs sorting out. It's as though its laughing at the 'new money types' at times - it's very much the Emperors new clothes.
I find this forum an interesting sick read once or twice a week as it makes me truly glad that I've not wasted my honest earned income on these rather expensive over dressed materials.
It's a shame, but of course, explains why very few people want to buy into it. I find the brand works around materistic snobbery which to me is highly uneducated. AS i've stated before, I love the A1, it's a great design - I just don't trust the company and the way it makes things. Personally, I feel safer buying a Panasonic or a SONOS. They work and they still work the year after and the year after that.
But this forum is a interesting read. Not reading about people's expensive sorrow but more feeling genuinely sorrow for them in many ways.
leosgonewild:I loved my H8's. Then I hated them for a long time. You know why. Now I love them.
Paul W: I find this forum an interesting sick read once or twice a week as it makes me truly glad that I've not wasted my honest earned income on these rather expensive over dressed materials. It's a shame, but of course, explains why very few people want to buy into it. I find the brand works around materistic snobbery which to me is highly uneducated.
It's a shame, but of course, explains why very few people want to buy into it. I find the brand works around materistic snobbery which to me is highly uneducated.
Paul, I assume you mean "quick" not "sick". Or maybe not!
One thing I don't understand is why you repeatedly insist that views that differ from your own are uneducated.
Surely an educated view would be to embrace the wonderful diversity of opinions and views in the world, not to scoff at those that don't conform to one's own preconceived, inflexible notions and ideas.
It would be a dull world if we all sat around only ever watching surfing movies (but never on a screen bigger than 40"), selling our cars and drinking San Pellegrino. But the fact that some people do makes it all the more interesting.
"Selling our cars" or returning the keys to the lease company ?
who knows?
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Simonbeo: "Selling our cars" or returning the keys to the lease company ? who knows?
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
Is there a way to ignore people (and automatically hide their posts) in this forum?
Just curious....
Ralf
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Sony KD-85XH9096Dining Room: Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 4000 on stands, fed by Amazon Echo Show 8Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-4 (Center), Beolab 1 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears). Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beosystem 3, Beolab 7-4, Beolab 5000, Screen: Sony KD-55XH9005 on Beovision 7-40 stand, ML to Beosound 9000 MK3 and Beosound 5/Beomaster 5 (1 TB SSD version)Bedroom: Sony KD-65XH9077, Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
The funny thing is that some of us (like me) could be complaining a lot and are not.
Yes my MX 6000 broke after a few months (tube) and was repaired. Yes my Ouverture broke several times (cd mechanism grease) and was replaced. Yes my Avant tape recorder broke and was replaced. Yes my BV10 was a nightmare and was repaired (and sold). Yes my Beosound 3 is suddenly dead. Note that my Century had no problem at all, like my lab 8000, 2500, Beosound 9000, BV11, Beolit 15 so far, various beocoms, light control...
But overal, I loved my MX or Ouverture or Avant and I loved is too weak. They where to my eyes fantastic products and that's the more important.
For me the Bang & Olufsen experience is very positive even if sometimes a failure can occur.
Sure I must have rose tinted glasses.
I always thought the concept of love/hate was basically a cliche, that is until I started getting back into B&O about 3 years ago, which was based on my experience in the 1970/80's.
At that time B&O delivered beautiful and great sounding equipment that was exceptionally well engineered and worked the first time and every time thereafter for decades!
That was my reference when I got back into it, and I have to say that the look of many of the products today is just as outstanding - no, even better than it was then.
But this is where the similarities end, and yes I realize technology has become so much more complex and complicated.
But frankly, I as the customer should not be the guinea pig and figure out ways to make things work that were not considered because the marketing guys rule and products get rushed to market before they are ready.
It is simply unacceptable to sell merchandise which does not deliver on its promise, especially when you are looking for premium customers paying premium prices.
Before Luca di Montezemolo became CEO of Ferrari, they had the same issue and they were in big trouble.
I can't even describe the countless hours and phone calls to make my systems work and to find work-arounds.
I am totally a non-technical person but I am extremely persistent and so, in the end I have a fantastic system that works flawlessly and that I am very proud of.
However, I really have learned my lessens and I will carefully consider any, repeat any changes or " improvements" because over time I added and improved, I paid the price in frustration, time and money.
The unintended but positive consequence of this adventure has been that I have learned a great deal and I can now almost make sense out of all this.
In conclusion, B&O has to make a decision what comes first " the chicken or the egg" - I personally think that rushing out products before they are ready and hoping that the customers will figure out how to really make it perform is the kiss of death for a luxury brand.
Especially in the USA, the luxury customer is not a " do it yourself'er" - the expectation is that I set it up and it works - period. And if it does not work you better have a world class organization in place to make it work.
@Beogreg
You properly bought the products, because you really did fall in love. Like a wife, they became a cherished companion, and eventually you accepted the flaws.
Today you are taken in and deceived by a hype, supported by selfies and "mytime" instead of "primetime", and by the time you say "I do", the divorce is already lurking just around the corner.
Maybe there might be a good reason why Justin Bieber wrote: "love yourself",- he does look a bit lonely with his Beoplay product!
LOL! Agree with you regarding Rolex, none of mine keep perfect time and the best of the lot is about 6 seconds out every few weeks and that model is not even 3 years old. A midrange/over priced brand which again, is all about marketing (and very good at it) but in terms of accuracy and reliability leaves a lot to be desired. The customer service at Rolex HQ is also appaling. A bit of a disappointment really but then I bought them for long term investments rather than to wear so I suppose I am not that fussed. Assume a Patek or A Lange... would be a more reliable purchase and live up to expectations.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
BeoNut since '75
From the horror stories I've read about the Moment, I can understand how someone unaware that it was an "unfinished" product could be very disappointed with it - especially if they bought it in the US where Deezer isn't even available yet. On the other hand, I can can also see how "enthusiasts" can love the very same product, despite it's imperfections. I guess "love/hate" hits the nail on the head, and expectations have a lot to do with overall satisfaction.
My unreliable wireless1s almost turned my wife against the brand (whenever they would inevitably lose signal and stop working - usually in the middle of a party - she'd dig me with "how much did you pay for this system, and why isn't it working, and why do none of our friends with far cheaper systems not have these problems?" My response: mumble, mumble "wireless is inherently unreliable" mumble mumble). Luckily, the Essence + BeoLink converter which replaced the wireless1s are restoring the brand in her eyes (and mine too - yes, I did consider going non-B&O for the backyard - I already have non-B&O outdoor speakers... is it really worth the hassle of odd connectors, expensive converter boxes, unfinished software (Android BeoMusic, I'm looking at you) and overpriced cables? Yes, it is!). I truly hope B&O can stay in business because everything else I see out there is just so unimaginative (but that's probably because I'm uneducated).
Stan
BAND'OH!:LOL! Agree with you regarding Rolex, none of mine keep perfect time and the best of the lot is about 6 seconds out every few weeks and that model is not even 3 years old. A midrange/over priced brand which again, is all about marketing (and very good at it) but in terms of accuracy and reliability leaves a lot to be desired. The customer service at Rolex HQ is also appaling. A bit of a disappointment really but then I bought them for long term investments rather than to wear so I suppose I am not that fussed. Assume a Patek or A Lange... would be a more reliable purchase and live up to expectations.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Typo... I meant to say minutes Chris... not seconds! They are all pretty unreliable timekeepers but to be fair, the YMII model is the only one that is usually around 5-6 minutes out a month and I have to keep readjusting it. Pain in the backside and very disappointing. Its already been in once under guarantee and came back with a different fault and then losing time again soon after. The other models are not as bad to be fair, but still 1-2 minutes out rather than seconds.
In terms of B&O, I agree with Stan's recent post in that I am very passionate about the brand and hope they stay in business as there are no other products like B&O from a design and imaginative perspective, not in my opinion. However, as other posters have highlighted, if the products aren't fully tested and there are so many issues following purchase, then there's little hope and faith going forward. What I find a shame is that this is so different from the past and from what attracted me to the brand to begin with. How difficult it is to build a reputation over the years and how easy to then destroy it if you start changing the 'essence' of the model.
Chris Townsend:That's dreadful. I'd take them back. With reference to this article. I bought a Mercedes E class estate 20 months ago, and I loved it. Initially Now I've had it 20 months I'm beginning to hate it. I hate the gearbox(the worst I've ever had including Fiat!), the headlights are nigh on dangerous and the stereo is very dated compared to its BMW/Audi counterparts. I don't apologise for this, it's the only way to find out about a product without the benefit of being say an E class expert. Buy, praise in the honeymoon period, Condemn when the real world takes over if necessary.
With reference to this article. I bought a Mercedes E class estate 20 months ago, and I loved it. Initially
Now I've had it 20 months I'm beginning to hate it. I hate the gearbox(the worst I've ever had including Fiat!), the headlights are nigh on dangerous and the stereo is very dated compared to its BMW/Audi counterparts.
I don't apologise for this, it's the only way to find out about a product without the benefit of being say an E class expert.
Buy, praise in the honeymoon period, Condemn when the real world takes over if necessary.
Mercedes used to be bad "because it's good for you" when my father had his equivalent to yours in the eighties!
i had new Audis one after another until I finally got the courage to buy a new Alfa which is not perfect but has a certain something about it . That's including a good gearchange. You don't expect it to be perfect in every respect and will exceed expectations . The cosmetic (fit and finish) is all you get with Audi because their preproduction tooling checks are very thorough and the design evolves but there's no soul. I'd rather have a meal with the people who created my Alfa than their equivalents at VW Group. The same goes for B&O versus Sonos!
I think it depends what people expect and what they are used to.
I have bought several B&O Systems - most are in use until today and i love them, but......
The sliders of the BC9500 stopped working, the glass panels had to be kitted, the mc was changed two times (now it does not bother me, that it is not working any more), the cd section one time. I still love the design and the touch was magic (when it came out), but.......
The BS 7000 was in repair so often (amp, sockets, mc,). I always hated that there was no shuffle play function (every cheap cd player had shuffle play, even if it was older), but i was like the typical mac user today: if there is a function or a socket missing, you don't need it and the function is just crap and never useful and there is a workaround, and......
My Ouverture was in repair three times (doors, mc and cd), the beolab 2500 two times (amplifier).
Today there is just one big difference - problems with mechanical parts were accepted - software problems aren't. People are still used to broken mechanical parts. A software problem is different - you can't fix it with a tape....
And i think even the actual music systems made by B&O are great. The essence if you wanna use an external pad to listen and the Moment if you wanna have a "stand alone music system" (in daily use). I enjoy the "world of music" in one box, and it has changed my listening habits in a very positive way - and this is in my eyes magical. The big problem is, that you can't design a perfect usability for all kind of user - everyone has a different access to software solutions, because everyone uses different features.
BAND'OH!:Typo... I meant to say minutes Chris... not seconds! They are all pretty unreliable timekeepers but to be fair, the YMII model is the only one that is usually around 5-6 minutes out a month and I have to keep readjusting it. Pain in the backside and very disappointing. Its already been in once under guarantee and came back with a different fault and then losing time again soon after. The other models are not as bad to be fair, but still 1-2 minutes out rather than seconds.
elephant:Now I understand why Apple was *rapping on about how their watch was synchronised over the Internet with an atomic clock ..... I never knew all that expensive man-jewellery was inaccurate BeoNut since '75
It seems to me, that none of these products are actually ENRICHING people's lives. Maybe you guys should stop being so shallow and materialistic and life more simply and appreciate the simpler things in life. Seriously, it's very sickening reading your comments. Shallow shallow shallow people! Gross in fact!
Paul W: It seems to me, that none of these products are actually ENRICHING people's lives. Maybe you guys should stop being so shallow and materialistic and life more simply and appreciate the simpler things in life. Seriously, it's very sickening reading your comments. Shallow shallow shallow people! Gross in fact!
The products ,in the case of the timepieces, are enriching the lives of the people who are producing them to a high standard with great financial returns allowing them to live in places like Geneva where they can enjoy the beautiful scenery. The customers are getting the pleasure of being treated nicely while they acquire their next symbol of their achievement. Personally I wouldn't buy a Rolex but to some it represents something to them and their social group and those they want to communicate where they feel they fit in. They may even appreciate the simpler things in life now and again.
I'm limping out of semi-retirement to comment! Over recent years you Sir, have been probably the main culprit for Brand Name dropping in every other word in every sentence!!!
If I could be bothered I'd root through some old threds to find sentences constructed of nothing other than brand names!!
I can only assume you've either found religion or else joined a cult!
Ban boring signatures!
BeoVision Eclipse 55”, Beolab 18s, Beolab 19s, Beosound 1, Beoplay P2, H3, BeoRemote One IR, BeoRemote One BT, Beoplay S8, Beosound Essence MkII, BeoTime
Puncher:Over recent years you Sir, have been probably the main culprit for Brand Name dropping in every other word in every sentence!!!
'Noticed that myself - Audi, Apple, Tom Ford, Nespresso, etc, etc. But let's cut Paul some slack. He's been having problems with a drone spying on him of late.
Paul W:It seems to me, that none of these products are actually ENRICHING people's lives. Maybe you guys should stop being so shallow and materialistic and life more simply and appreciate the simpler things in life. Seriously, it's very sickening reading your comments. Shallow shallow shallow people! Gross in fact!
Duels:Says a man buying branded mineral water. Same principle, just different amounts.
Glad I didn't read Paul's comment first thing this morning... I would have sprayed coffee all over my computer. I guess some have very limited self-awareness, or, perhaps, no memory.
On the topic of materialism, I was always of the opinion that it is perfectly acceptable to enjoy the finer things in life, just keep it in perspective. Your close friends and family are far more important than any "thing". If you find that your pursuit of things is getting in the way of your friends and family, then this is a problem. Then again, no one (except Paul, I suppose ) is perfect. We are continually bombarded with advertisements enticing us (or, more specifically, our "lizard brain") to buy happiness, sex and cool lifestyles... Odd thing, while most high minded people claim to not be influenced by the onslaught, the advertising continues so it must be working on somebody (just none of us )
I took the step to B&O merely of the quality they provided years ago, the good old tube Avant. No other brand could deliver that picture quality in those years and I payed with pleasure the amount of money it cost.
One thing led to another, was there any brand with a multiroom sound system (ML link) in those days who could deliver the same simplicity of use and interactivity? No, so that was my natural next step...
Now I'm stucked with a lot of B&O goods and I entered the digital age once more with B&O. All back from a same perspective, simplicity, interactivity... but now I experience it don't deliver me anymore the same quality in electronics as it did years ago. It still looks wonderfully but I have the feeling the internals are made in Ali Baba factories. Poured into a beautiful jacket, and sold at a premium price to keep the name and factory going.
The question to me is, would I invest again in B&O as a first starter in 2016, definitely its a No Go.
Don't understand me wrong, I still enjoy everyday my BL 8000, BL2000, ... and the sound they deliver and I'm not planning to change them. But there are at present standalone and multiroom sound systems who deliver the same satisfactory for a lot less money.
To compare, a Rolex is today still delivering at least the same quality as it did some hundred years ago.