ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Would love to hear some technical as well as qualitative assessments as well please. I have BL8000's, plus BL2 and I was going to swap the 8000's for the 18's, but would be keen to hear the difference in replacing the 18's + 2 for BL20s instead.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
I think he would have still be wearing shorts at school back then ;-)
BeoBoy68:In real condition, I mean in your home; the BeoLab 18 have superior sound as the BeoLab 8000. Geoff Martin developed the BeoLab 18.
While I haven't heard the new 18s, I imagine they are an improvement otherwise why bother? But, I do have to point out that while I hold Geoff Martin in high regard, he isn't the only person who knows how to design and voice loudspeakers! The 8000s in the right room are magical in and of themselves. If they weren't would you have seen them in the market for 20+ yrs?
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
I do find the BL8000 a very musical speaker if you give it the right input, as is jazz, female voice... Although not sounding really airy especially in the high's.
I will gave a serieus listening with my own music on next tuesday to the BL18, If they a really, really so much better, I take the offer on the black ones.
Enjoy the music, Chris
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Jeff: BeoBoy68:In real condition, I mean in your home; the BeoLab 18 have superior sound as the BeoLab 8000. Geoff Martin developed the BeoLab 18. While I haven't heard the new 18s, I imagine they are an improvement otherwise why bother? But, I do have to point out that while I hold Geoff Martin in high regard, he isn't the only person who knows how to design and voice loudspeakers! The 8000s in the right room are magical in and of themselves. If they weren't would you have seen them in the market for 20+ yrs?
The major benefit between the old and new is that the newer speakers benefit from DSP whereby all of the live, active and variable EQ tweaking and bass management, that geoff describes so well in his blog is "relatively" simple to do compared to trying the same with analogue filters - it is akin to painting a lifelike portrait with a 1/16" brush rather than a 6" brush, or surgery using a scalpel versus an axe.
I would also assume that the design, simulation and measurement tools have improved immeasurably since 1992, giving the designers the ability to produce better designs aesthetically, mechanically, acoustically and electronically.
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: The major benefit between the old and new is that the newer speakers benefit from DSP whereby all of the live, active and variable EQ tweaking and bass management, that geoff describes so well in his blog is "relatively" simple to do compared to trying the same with analogue filters - it is akin to painting a lifelike portrait with a 1/16" brush rather than a 6" brush, or surgery using a scalpel versus an axe. I would also assume that the design, simulation and measurement tools have improved immeasurably since 1992, giving the designers the ability to produce better designs aesthetically, mechanically, acoustically and electronically.
So I am assuming you find them a real improvement, I am in doubt with all that DSP they will sound to analytical. But your mention about the ability to produce a better loudspeaker more then 20 years later is absolutely the reason why I would like to have a deep listening to them
Chris: Puncher: The major benefit between the old and new is that the newer speakers benefit from DSP whereby all of the live, active and variable EQ tweaking and bass management, that geoff describes so well in his blog is "relatively" simple to do compared to trying the same with analogue filters - it is akin to painting a lifelike portrait with a 1/16" brush rather than a 6" brush, or surgery using a scalpel versus an axe. I would also assume that the design, simulation and measurement tools have improved immeasurably since 1992, giving the designers the ability to produce better designs aesthetically, mechanically, acoustically and electronically. So I am assuming you find them a real improvement, I am in doubt with all that DSP they will sound to analytical. But your mention about the ability to produce a better loudspeaker more then 20 years later is absolutely the reason why I would like to have a deep listening to them
For a moment, assume the DSP is invisible - then the fact that the driver EQ can be more accurate, the room position correction better, better bass management. etc etc. means you would expect a performance difference.
DSP doesn't mean they will necessarily sound analytical, they can still have a company "voice" or they can be designed to be "monitors" - it is a tool not a component.
Chris: I will gave a serieus listening with my own music on next tuesday to the BL18, If they a really, really so much better, I take the offer on the black ones.
Back from a 2 hour listening test at the dealership this morning. Please excuse me, I do not want to offend anyone with my comments, next is purely my own opinion about the B18. Don’t write afterwards, why not the B20? Well you can’t compare my combo, the B20 is in another league. Very fine sounding but nothing to us, my Mrs. and myself just don’t like the R2D2 robot view.
I took my own music (downloaded from HDtracks) with me to listen, and listened to the B18 with and without the B19. What impressed me the most: I could not find the sweet spot, stereo image was great to listen to, it was sounding very nice from a listeners position in every corner. Get some four place one in every corner and you have a great house fulfilled with music.
For the critical listener: I find the overall impression of high’s good, but as my B8000 again not airy enough. it sounded to me not much better in the mids (that was the strongest point of the B8000). The bass, I disliked the bass. It certainly goes lower in specs, but after changing records over and over it keeps sounding woolly, forced and unreal to me. At B&O they have been done a remarkable job in redesigning this speaker as a whole, but due to the volume and structure of the speaker, bass is not as it should.
Things opened as soon the B19 came in to action, suddenly something just fell slightly from the shoulders of the B18 and they sounded immediately more precise in all tonality with a very articulated bass response all around the room, it was heaven to me, thats the thing I was looking for. Diana Krall appears suddenly singing and playing in the room.
My B8000 are still sounding very analog and musical to me so I did not take the offer on the new B18. For myself as a static listener, I don’t find it worthy to spend the money.
But I ended up walking outside with an order for the Beolab 19, and I am very thrilled to enjoy this wonderful, very precise and musical sounding subwoofer together with my Beolab 8000 at home.
I can not understand the use of a subwoofer with stereo music. For me, unlistenable.
The 8000 will listen for hours without tiring, but there is a lack of definition of the high and the low.
For stereo music: BL5, BL9, BL20.
The Beolab 9 can be purchased cheaply now.
SlyParma:I can not understand the use of a subwoofer with stereo music. For me, unlistenable. The 8000 will listen for hours without tiring, but there is a lack of definition of the high and the low. For stereo music: BL5, BL9, BL20. The Beolab 9 can be purchased cheaply now.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
Doesn't your local dealer offer home demonstrations?
I have offered many home dems of 18s and 19s against Lab 8000s and 2s with a very positive response. It's probably no coincidence that we sell lots of both Lab 18 and 19!
I believe that our speakers always seem to perform better in the customers home, and a weekend home demonstration seems the best way to make a proper informed decision on performance.
Incidentally, as a result of the success of 18 & 19 we always have plenty of 8000s and 2s for sale at good prices...
SHEFFIELD: Doesn't your local dealer offer home demonstrations? I have offered many home dems of 18s and 19s against Lab 8000s and 2s with a very positive response. It's probably no coincidence that we sell lots of both Lab 18 and 19! I believe that our speakers always seem to perform better in the customers home, and a weekend home demonstration seems the best way to make a proper informed decision on performance. Incidentally, as a result of the success of 18 & 19 we always have plenty of 8000s and 2s for sale at good prices...
Just wondering, are home demos more common for EU based dealers? I've never been offered home demos in the past here in the States, and maybe it is just a matter of asking, but nearly everyone who has mentioned home demos are based in EU.
Sal:Just wondering, are home demos more common for EU based dealers? I've never been offered home demos in the past here in the States, and maybe it is just a matter of asking, but nearly everyone who has mentioned home demos are based in EU.
BeoNut since '75
Sal:I've never been offered home demos
Ask them ! A home demo is the deal breaker.
SHEFFIELD:Doesn't your local dealer offer home demonstrations?
@BeoGreg - are you sure, I heard my dealer mumble between his teeth ends 22 th. Give him a call!
Chris:@BeoGreg - are you sure, I heard my dealer mumble between his teeth ends 22 th. Give him a call!
elephant: Sal: Just wondering, are home demos more common for EU based dealers? I've never been offered home demos in the past here in the States, and maybe it is just a matter of asking, but nearly everyone who has mentioned home demos are based in EU. Very rare in Oz Either need a cheap commodity item eg Playmaker, or a BIG potential order to motivate our dealers
Sal: Just wondering, are home demos more common for EU based dealers? I've never been offered home demos in the past here in the States, and maybe it is just a matter of asking, but nearly everyone who has mentioned home demos are based in EU.
Very rare in Oz
Either need a cheap commodity item eg Playmaker,
or a BIG potential order to motivate our dealers
I've been offered to take a pair of speakers home to try them out, but whether there is a demo of the product, i'm unsure.
Chris:@BeoGreg - are you sure, I heard my dealer mumble between his teeth ends 22 th. Give him a call! Press any key to start. Where is the “any” key?!
BeoGreg: Waiting for is call for a home demo this week-end (we'll still be the 15th next tuesday right ? ;-) ).
Waiting for is call for a home demo this week-end (we'll still be the 15th next tuesday right ? ;-) ).
i can't wait to hear about your impressions with the demo
BeoGreg:(we'll still be the 15th next tuesday right ? ;-) )
Glad you are getting the proper test with the speakers.
Lets know how it goes.
mawheele: I think he would have still be wearing shorts at school back then ;-)
1992 isn't that long ago (or rather, I'm not that young...). I would have been sitting in a recording studio in Montreal living on coffee and microphone techniques back then...
Cheers
-geoff
Puncher: Jeff: BeoBoy68:In real condition, I mean in your home; the BeoLab 18 have superior sound as the BeoLab 8000. Geoff Martin developed the BeoLab 18. While I haven't heard the new 18s, I imagine they are an improvement otherwise why bother? But, I do have to point out that while I hold Geoff Martin in high regard, he isn't the only person who knows how to design and voice loudspeakers! The 8000s in the right room are magical in and of themselves. If they weren't would you have seen them in the market for 20+ yrs? The major benefit between the old and new is that the newer speakers benefit from DSP whereby all of the live, active and variable EQ tweaking and bass management, that geoff describes so well in his blog is "relatively" simple to do compared to trying the same with analogue filters - it is akin to painting a lifelike portrait with a 1/16" brush rather than a 6" brush, or surgery using a scalpel versus an axe. I would also assume that the design, simulation and measurement tools have improved immeasurably since 1992, giving the designers the ability to produce better designs aesthetically, mechanically, acoustically and electronically.
Hi,
I just want to correct an important point here: I was on a large team of persons that developed the BL18. My job was to help with the final voicing of it - but I most certainly wasn't alone. On the other hand, if you don't like the way they sound, I certainly get a fair share of the blame. :-)
I agree with almost everything that Jeff and Puncher said.
-g
Geoff Martin: I was on a large team of persons that developed the BL18
I have a picture of the group. Geoff is the man in the middle (he had long hairs at the time, due to a complex development not allowing him to take care of him).
diisign.com
He actually had long hairs at that time!
We all had more hair earlier
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen:He actually had long hairs at that time! We all had more hair earlier MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
mbee:I have a picture of the group. Geoff is the man in the middle (he had long hairs at the time, due to a complex development not allowing him to take care of him). diisign.com
what a pity, I looked forward to your opinion
See if you can pick them up Saturday closing time and bring them back Monday opening time ?
valve1:See if you can pick them up Saturday closing time and bring them back Monday opening time ?