ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I have recently purchased a used pair of BeoLab 6000s on ebay and am very happy with them…. but…. would I be even happier with a used pair of 8000s?
I've searched but cannot find any review that gives a comparison of the sound between these two speakers. Has anyone here any views having heard them side-by-side?
My 6000's are in good working order and they sound pretty good. My source is streaming audio from Spotify with my MacBookPro via a Crystal Acustics BluDAC. Using a little equalisation to turn down the 1Khz to 4Kz range makes a big difference creating a more open and less shouty sound stage. If there is an area where the 6000s are less than impressive, it is the bass end. It's not that it is not loud enough, it's that it lacks definition and control. No amount of equalisation helps with that.
But the 8000s do have beefier bass units, so do they have better control over that end of the audio spectrum?
I'd be very interested to hear peoples opinions on how the 6000s and 8000s stack up.
Notes, I do not want to add a sub woofer. Sub woofers are great for movies but so far the subs I have listened to have been great for movie ground shaking rumbles but are a long way from reproducing that smack of an acoustic fretless double bass. Also I like the aesthetics of having nothing in my living room other than two graceful columns to provide my audio pleasure.
BeoLab 8000 Mk2, CrystalAccoustic BluDAC, Mac Book Pro Retina
I've had a few pairs of both. When working together in a surround sound setup, the 6000's make excellent supplementary speakers. On their own i found them acceptable in a small room. The 8000's are better in every way, including bass which you mention.
I cannot comment on how the newer Mk2 8000's compare to the older generation, as i have only ever owned older pairs. Maybe somebody with experience could compare this as well. How are you using them?
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
@Chris Townsend.
Thanks for the quick reply. My listening room is of moderate size 12' x 15'. It's definitely control and definition at the low end that I most seek to improve. I think the amplification in the 6000's may be boosted at the low end to help compensate for the small drive units but for the net result is wallowing muddy sound.
Thanks and regards.
Michael Ellis:I have recently purchased a used pair of BeoLab 6000s on ebay and am very happy with them…. but…. would I be even happier with a used pair of 8000s? I've searched but cannot find any review that gives a comparison of the sound between these two speakers. Has anyone here any views having heard them side-by-side? My 6000's are in good working order and they sound pretty good. My source is streaming audio from Spotify with my MacBookPro via a Crystal Acustics BluDAC. Using a little equalisation to turn down the 1Khz to 4Kz range makes a big difference creating a more open and less shouty sound stage. If there is an area where the 6000s are less than impressive, it is the bass end. It's not that it is not loud enough, it's that it lacks definition and control. No amount of equalisation helps with that. But the 8000s do have beefier bass units, so do they have better control over that end of the audio spectrum? I'd be very interested to hear peoples opinions on how the 6000s and 8000s stack up. Notes, I do not want to add a sub woofer. Sub woofers are great for movies but so far the subs I have listened to have been great for movie ground shaking rumbles but are a long way from reproducing that smack of an acoustic fretless double bass. Also I like the aesthetics of having nothing in my living room other than two graceful columns to provide my audio pleasure. BeoLab 6000, CrystalAccoustic BluDAC, Mac Book Pro Retina
vlohjr1:I think so michael I used to have both first the 6000 on its own which I listened to about 2 years then the 8000 The 6000 has a lovely warm cosy sound like a Czech piano and the 8000 a much stronger version like a Steinway. At a used market the 8000 is now extremely good value and I would have 2 pairs front and back The 18s which I have now is of course a different beast....
The 6000 has a lovely warm cosy sound like a Czech piano and the 8000 a much stronger version like a Steinway. At a used market the 8000 is now extremely good value and I would have 2 pairs front and back
The 18s which I have now is of course a different beast....
@ vlohjr1
Go on then make me sick with envy. So how would you compare the 8000s and 18s!
Many thanks -- Michael
From your earlier posts, I saw where you had a fair amount of bass boost dialed in via EQ for the 6000s. That will definitely muddy the sound, since the small drive units are really moving a lot to produce the bass while trying to make midrange. That's one of the real advantages of doing a subwoofer properly, which means not just a low pass filter for the sub but also a symmetric high pass filter to keep the bass out of the main speakers. Many people just slap a sub on and don't use a high pass filter, and don't adjust the sub properly either. Geoff Martin has a good writeup on his blog page about setting up subwoofers.
But, the 8000s are much better sounding than the 6000s. I had mine in a room that was about 12.5 ft by 25 ft, shooting across the short length of the room in my last house. They had decent bass, as that room had a lot of bass boost naturally, lots of room gain. I ran the 8000s flat on treble, and one notch up on bass on the tone controls of my BS9000. In my new house the living area is barn sized so the 8000s just disappeared, so I moved them to the dining room and am running BL9s now.
But as you note now is the time to pick up used 8000s! I doubt you'd be disappointed, and to my eye they look even better than the 6000s, a truly iconic speaker.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
@Jeff, many thanks for your comments. Appreciated.
The snapshots in that older blog should probably be updates as I have been dialling down the bass for exactly the reasons you mention. The BeoLabs 6000s are not at all bass light in terms of SPL, it's just the lack of definition and control.
Well, I'm watching eBay, fingers crossed :-)
I have a pair of 6000s that I picked up used that need some repair. I've gotten the parts, bottom plates for both, top plate for one, and new woofers as one speaker has both woofers shot. Haven't gotten around to fixing them up yet. I was going to put them in the dining room, but since I got the BL9s my 8000s are moving to the dining room. Not sure what I'll do with the 6000s, probably use them for surrounds in my non-B&O AV setup as they look better than the small speakers on tall metal stands I'm using now.
They sound remarkably good for what they are, but in the end they have very small drivers, it's a credit to B&O that they sound as full range as they do, but even B&O can't rewrite all the laws of acoustics.They should work just dandy for surrounds though, since the processor routes the bass to the sub.
I never understood why MoMA picked the 6000s for the permanent collection but not the 8000s. While the 6000s are much more minimalist in size, to me the 8000s are far more elegant with the cone tapering to a point on the heavy bases.
Good luck with the hunt!
Another thing that makes the speakers muddy when bass is boosted, the 6000s and the 8000s are both bass reflex speakers (ported), not acoustic suspension (or sealed). Below system resonance, where the speaker and port resonance are located, the woofer unloads, that is it has no air pressure behind it to help keep it controlled and stop it from overextending itself. I am not sure exactly how B&O handles this, I suspect they have some kind of bass limiting below system resonance to help protect the drivers, but the symptoms you describe are in line with a woofer unloading and getting sloppy in its movements as well as just generally from handling a lot of bass and midrange at the same time. Bass boost below system resonance will usually not give you more real bass but endangers the drivers more than anything. Especially true on normal speakers that don't have any protection as you can implement in an active speaker.
With the 8000s that frequency will be a fair amount lower than it is with the 6000s. This happens for all bass reflex or passive radiator speakers. B&O is in a better position than most to handle this due to being active as they can limit the bass in the electronics. I've seen quite a few small passive speakers destroyed by too much bass boost and power.
@Jeff,
Thanks for your comments.
I am hopeful that the Active design sensible limits current to the speakers as since I am driving them through bluetooth (aptx) there's always the chance of spurious radio interference that could send spikes down the line.
Sad to say, didn't win on eBay. Will keep looking!
Regards -- Michael
I used to have a preloved pair of 6000's connected to my Beocenter 6 - 26 in a small room (3,5 Meters x 3 Meters x 2,2 Meters ) for 2 Years. 4 Month ago I got a good deal on a preloved pair of 8000's (without bass-update).
Even in that small room I would call the difference rather amazing. Especially if you like lower mids (you can not call it bass) the acoustical, and optical improvement is worth the money.
You should wait to the mid of summer, when the prices at online auctions reach their yearly low and than go for it.
Beocenter 6-26 white, Beovision 8-32 black, Beosound 3200, Beolab 8000, Beolab 4000, Beocom 4, Beocom 1401, 2x Beo 4, Beolink 1000, A 9 Keyring
Michael Ellis:@ vlohjr1 Go on then make me sick with envy. So how would you compare the 8000s and 18s! Many thanks -- Michael BeoLab 6000, CrystalAccoustic BluDAC, Mac Book Pro Retina
Many thanks!
I haven't heard the 18s yet, and still think the 8000s are better looking, but an increase in treble and a wider sweet spot is what I'd expect from the ALT tweeter. I will say I've heard 6000s and 8000s side by side and found the midrange clarity and smoothness much superior on the 8000s over the 6000s, which is also what I'd expect. Larger mid/woofers don't have to work as hard on bass. In fact, the thing that always blew me away with my 8000s was how open and transparent the mids were, and in a smaller room the treble was smooth and airy.
The room I moved them into in the new house is truly huge, about 18 feet across, and maybe 40+ feet long if you count the raised areas at each end that make up the stage area and foyer. The 8000s got lost in here, no bass and even the treble had problems. In the still large dining room/sunroom/kitchen area however the shape of the room seems to reinforce the bass on the 8000s, they sound very nice in there despite the volume of the room.
The 8000s and the 9s share one characteristic though, they just seem to completely disappear when setup right. You can't point at the speaker and say the sound is coming from that, which is something the old Dahlquists impressed me with back in the day. The Beo speakers are much less finicky about placement and such though. Easier to live with.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
Alas neither my budget nor my room size makes the BL1's an option. Just too big and too expensive.
As a younger man I filled my living space with expensive esoteric HiFi, now its more a case of moderation in all things ;-)
But thanks for your reply.
Jeff: ...........Easier to live with.
...........Easier to live with.
Jeff, very well said !
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Oh happy days! B&O Nottingham had a pair of BL 8000 mk2's on ebay with a starting price of £749. Despite all other mk2's tagged at a higher price this pair had attracted no bids. So I bagged them and have got them home and am very happy with them (and they came with 3 months warranty - not likely to need it but it gives you confidence that you don't generally get from a private sale).
These are the bass enhanced version and the bass sounds just fine for me (even at low levels). I only need them to fill a moderately sized room so bass loudness is not the issue, it was more the definition and control of the bass. These 8000 mk2s are a definite improvement over my 6000's in this area.
Incidentally, whilst at the showroom I had a chance to listen to the 18's with and without sub (different speaker configurations can be switched easily with the remote). Source was Spotify on the avant TV. Although just a short edition my first impressions are still that a sub in not for me when it comes to stereo music. Both myself and my son found the sound with the sub was marginally more muddled. Reproduction of fretless double on Brubeks Take 5 is just not a crisp and lacks some of that raspy smack you get when the bass is being handled by the 18's. Salesman said many people who audition the 18's leave without taking the sub, but then he might have been telling me what he though I wanted to hear.
Anyway the 8000's mk2's now they are home just sound amazing… anyone want to buy some super 6000's - guaranteed to be in great working order!
Congratulations! That didn't take long. Sounds like you found a great deal on a nice pair of them.
Heavier than they look thanks to those bases aren't they?
Jeff: ... Heavier than they look thanks to those bases aren't they?
...
Thanks Jeff. Yup those solid bases that keep them from toppling are pretty darned heavy. Can see why they ought to be removed for shipping!
I'm greatly enjoying the 8000's but I have to say I am convinced that many folks buying expensive bluetooth sound docks could be so much better served by pickup a preowned set of 6000's or 4000's and connecting to the very good Crystal Acoustics BluDAC. About the same price but leagues better in sound quality and style!
Most people either don't know this is possible or are lazy I suspect. Probably more of the former, and some of the "I don't know how to do that" that keeps them from trying your approach, but it is a better one sonically and visually.
When last I moved I had the bases pulled and packaged in their little cube of a cardboard box.The move came swooping in and grabbed it, assuming it was small and light and he'd just swoop it up as he went by. The look on his face was priceless.
Jeff: ...When last I moved I had the bases pulled and packaged in their little cube of a cardboard box.The move came swooping in and grabbed it, assuming it was small and light and he'd just swoop it up as he went by. The look on his face was priceless.
...When last I moved I had the bases pulled and packaged in their little cube of a cardboard box.The move came swooping in and grabbed it, assuming it was small and light and he'd just swoop it up as he went by. The look on his face was priceless.
Instant hernia? :-)
My recent resurgent interest in getting some decent audio (that I can live with) was sparked my trying to get my son's Christ present this year : Pinch of Salt — The Jolly FatMan at Christmas
What the the FatMan Mi (valves) can squeeze out through a bluetooth stream and into a moderately cheap pair of speakers just blew me away and had me more or less immediately junk my Pioneer AV system (had been using it for movies but had sort of slipped into not playing music because it was just so flat).
Anyway, since the FatMan puts the valves in the preamp stage the next experiment is to see what happens when we drive the 8000s from the headphone socket on the Fatman Mi
If it delivers an improvement then it maybe an even more effective (and funky) bluetooth DAC than the Crystal Acoustic DAC I described in my review of the 6000's with the BluDAC
If I find the time I'll make another review of the 8000's and what I find with the FatMan Mi
Also anyone have experience of combining a valve preamp / DAC with B&O active speakers?
I haven't run tubes into the active speakers but did kind of the opposite. When I bought my BS9000, and before I picked up the BL8000s, I ran the output of my BS9000 into an old McIntosh MC240 tube amp and into a set of NHT speakers. Really looked kind of cool, ultra modern CD changer into old tube amp. Sounded good too.
I always try and keep some tube gear around as I think they look cool. Currently I have a small single ended tube amp, running 6L6 tubes, that pushes out a room shattering 7 watts/channel driving a small pair of single driver full range speakers using Tang Band bamboo fiber coned drivers.
IMO if your looking for abit of bass so no need for adding a sub i wouldn't look at the 8000 go for the 8000 mk2 they are bass enhanced and sound great.
If your looking im selling a lot of my collection. i Have
Beolab 8000 mk2 bass enhanced (Red ones, Silver black ones, Black on black ones)
Beolab 8002 silver,blacks
Beolab 1s
Beolab 3s
beolab 4000s
Let me know if your interested in any im from the uk and all my items are boxed
thanks
I was at my B&O dealer in Beverly Hills today picking up some spare parts and I got to demo the 18s as well, the sales man offered me the same story without me asking, many people buy the 18s and say they'll come back for the sub if they need it. So far he hasn't had a single person come back for a sub. They did sound amazing, and I personally think they are the best looking product B&O is currently making. New colors coming soon too.
While the BL18 is a very good speaker, after a thorough listening test I decided to keep my BL8000 but I've come home with a BL19. Strange but the midrange and highs benefit enormous from adding this woofer. Geoff Martin mentioned this also in his blog.
Years ago I listened the BL2 - BL 8000 combo, but this new BL19 in combo is of a different order. (I mostly listen to music, television is of no importance.)
worldrecord: New colors coming soon too.
nice - I did expect that to happen.
Looking forward to seeing them.
How about more choices of the wood of the front?
(a bit off-topic - sorry!)
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
The salesman mentioned some black and white fiber-board options, as well as a maple and pine option in the future if I'm remembering right.
I don't like much bass so I prefer the 6000's.