ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi all members,
I would like to buy a CD but the format is Hybrid SACD. According wikipedia this format can be read by most of non SACD player.
Do you have some experience or do you know if beosound Ouverture (last version) and/or DVD player of a BV7-32 MK2 can read such CDs format ?
Thanks for your feedback
Franck
Hi Franck,
'hybrid' means that the disc contains a SACD layer and a (normal) CD layer,
The 'CD layer' can be played on anything that can play a normal (Red Book standart) CD.
But why buy the SACD for more money than the usual CD-version???
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
The CD is:
http://www.diapasoncd.com/bach-cantates-blazikova-guillon-kooij-suzuki-p-92805.html
And this is the only format for this Bach version... unfortunatly
Thanks
At least it is not overpriced.
Enjoy!
Hi all,
SACD Hybrid can be read without any problems ! The sound is very good as even if not read by a SACD player, I think the hybrid layer is 24 bits coded or something like that, so I can assume you that I noticed a BIG difference with those CDs compared to other good labels as well.
Just to share.
Have a nice day
The 'other' layer of a SACD is a regular 'Red Book'/CD compatible layer - and is consequenly 16/44.1.
If there is some improvement (against a usual CD version) it lies in a different mixing/mastering of the content.
I own lots of Hybrid SACD/CD's and I have never found a single CD player that was unable to play the CD layer of any of my discs.
Cheers
-geoff
I have about 5 SACD hybrid disks and have been able to rip them into iTunes. Also they play on my Beocenter 2 without any problem. The BIS label which I really like has produced many SACD hybrid disks for at least 5 years or longer.
Geoff Martin: I own lots of Hybrid SACD/CD's and I have never found a single CD player that was unable to play the CD layer of any of my discs. Cheers -geoff
I own lots of hybrid SACD's as well Geoff.
A while back there was a thread about playing the M/C SACD soundtrack in the context of the DAC as found in V1, BV-11 etc, and the realisation that the DAC would not play the M/C SACD soundtrack (converted from DSD to PCM in the connected player) unless one had a player such as the Cambridge Audio players which would up sample to 96khz or some such as I recall.
At the time I tried it with my Sony Bluray player via HDMI into my V1 (the player will output either DSD or PCM over the HDMI link from a M/C SACD) and could get no sound even though the disc played. I believe this situation also exists with the otherwise highly regarded Oppo players.
Sorry to take the thread a little off topic per se, but has this situation been addressed in either firmware (if possible) or proposed hardware updates?
I'd really like to be able to play my collection of SACD's in M/C surround sound, and do miss the facility quite a bit - hoping for either a resolution, or advice as to a brand/model of player that will allow me to play the M/C SACD soundtrack in interface with the B&O product.
Many thanks...
Kind regards
John...
John: A while back there was a thread about playing the M/C SACD soundtrack in the context of the DAC as found in V1, BV-11 etc, and the realisation that the DAC would not play the M/C SACD soundtrack (converted from DSD to PCM in the connected player) unless one had a player such as the Cambridge Audio players which would up sample to 96khz or some such as I recall. John...
Hi John,
I suppose it was this thread:
http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/6956.aspx?PageIndex=1
N.B. I'd like to know more about the DAC's in the V1/BV11/12/Avant too!
Here is a quotation from the FAQs on sa-cd.net - http://www.sa-cd.net/faq#discs2
Are all SA-CDs hybrid?
In the early days of SA-CD,most titles were released as 'single layer' i.e. SA-CD-only but nowadays virtually all SA-CD releases are hybrid discs. Currently, more than 90% of the SA-CD catalogue consists of hybrid discs and this rate continues to rise. Greetings MM
In the early days of SA-CD,most titles were released as 'single layer' i.e. SA-CD-only but nowadays virtually all SA-CD releases are hybrid discs. Currently, more than 90% of the SA-CD catalogue consists of hybrid discs and this rate continues to rise.
In one world buying SACD is at no risk
Hi All, I have an Oppo player (BDP-105D) connected to a BV11 and since the last BV update (of may 2014) I've been able to play multi-channel SACD soundtracks, as long as you set the player to convert DSD to PCM. In fact, I've also been able to play the DSD64 sample files (both in 2 channels and multi-channels), which Oppo makes available in its website.
Finally, I’ve tested some 24bit tracks (in FLAC) directly in the BV11’s home media player and can confirm it can now play 24/88.2 files but I still couldn’t make it to play 24/176.4 (despite the fact that the BV11 does play 24/192, which is odd…).
Regards,
TA
talfaia: Hi All, I have an Oppo player (BDP-105D) connected to a BV11 and since the last BV update (of may 2014) I've been able to play multi-channel SACD soundtracks, as long as you set the player to convert DSD to PCM. In fact, I've also been able to play the DSD64 sample files (both in 2 channels and multi-channels), which Oppo makes available in its website. Finally, I’ve tested some 24bit tracks (in FLAC) directly in the BV11’s home media player and can confirm it can now play 24/88.2 files but I still couldn’t make it to play 24/176.4 (despite the fact that the BV11 does play 24/192, which is odd…). Regards, TA
That's really great news, as I was under the impression that previously the Oppo 105's and 103's could not do this (play the M/C SACD sound track when connected to BV11/ V1 etc.
Without wishing to put Geoff to any great trouble, I wonder if he could comment if this issue with the processor/DAC re M/C SACD in the V1/BV11 family has been addressed.
I will be delighted if it has!
Many thanks for the updated information Talfaia..
John: Without wishing to put Geoff to any great trouble, I wonder if he could comment if this issue with the processor/DAC re M/C SACD in the V1/BV11 family has been addressed.
Hi,
I've already started asking about this - since it's an issue that affects me at home as well..
The answers I've received so far are:
No changes have been made to the sampling rate compatibility of the HDMI inputs. This means that 88.2 kHz and 176.4 kHz are currently not supported. This, in turn, implies that the Oppo BDP-105D must be outputting its PCM converted DSD at either 44.1, 48, 96, or 192 kHz. Looking at the Oppo manual, it is unclear what they're doing exactly. On page 63 it talks about the sampling rate being, in part, determined by the number of audio channels (which is new information to me with regards to the HDMI standard). It is also unclear whether the setting of the upper sampling rate (p.64) also has an effect on the HDMI output. It's not explicitly stated that it does NOT, which is not terribly helpful.
There MAY have been changes made in the Media Player to accommodate 88.2 kHz - I'll find out more about this later in the week if I get a chance!
- g
Geoff Martin: There MAY have been changes made in the Media Player to accommodate 88.2 kHz - I'll find out more about this later in the week if I get a chance!
Hi again,
Instead of waiting on an "official" answer, I just ran a quick check on our BV11 in the listening room, using SW v.1.0.6.35496 (the latest release).
2-channel 88.2 kHz, 24 bit FLAC files can indeed be played via the Homemedia player (as can 44.1, 48, 96, and 192 kHz).
2-channel 176.4, 352.8, and 384 kHz are not currently playable in the Homemedia player in this SW release version.
I didn't check any other formats or bit depths.
In addition to this:
Just checked the 3 files (FLAC) I have in 5.1.
Two of them: 96kHz and 5969Kbits .
One of them: 96kHz and 7767Kbits
(I guess that is an addition of the 6 channels --- ???)
Info is from MP3Tag!
The files are from 2L (Norway) and Aix Music.
All three play fine in the MediaPlayer of my V1 (latest software).
Sound info: Input PCM 5.1 - Output 2.0 (thanks to Geoff downmixing )
I have no external speakers connected to the V1 - wish I had, because I would really like to hear/enjoy these files in full 5.1.
Can't test on my main-tv 5.1 setup, which is a BV8-40
Seems that the HomeMedia/MediaPlayer is a pretty good music player - (if it had a search function, it would be perfect).
Geoff Martin: Hi again, Instead of waiting on an "official" answer, I just ran a quick check on our BV11 in the listening room, using SW v.1.0.6.35496 (the latest release). 2-channel 88.2 kHz, 24 bit FLAC files can indeed be played via the Homemedia player (as can 44.1, 48, 96, and 192 kHz). 2-channel 176.4, 352.8, and 384 kHz are not currently playable in the Homemedia player in this SW release version. I didn't check any other formats or bit depths. Cheers -geoff
Thanks for checking, Geoff! As I mentioned, I've been able to enjoy my SACDs played through my set-up, which involves an Oppo player connected to a Beovision 11 with Beolab 9s. I'm very happy with this set-up right now!
Best,
Millemissen: Seems that the HomeMedia/MediaPlayer is a pretty good music player - (if it had a search function, it would be perfect).
I agree!
Geoff Martin: John: Without wishing to put Geoff to any great trouble, I wonder if he could comment if this issue with the processor/DAC re M/C SACD in the V1/BV11 family has been addressed. Hi, I've already started asking about this - since it's an issue that affects me at home as well.. The answers I've received so far are: No changes have been made to the sampling rate compatibility of the HDMI inputs. This means that 88.2 kHz and 176.4 kHz are currently not supported. This, in turn, implies that the Oppo BDP-105D must be outputting its PCM converted DSD at either 44.1, 48, 96, or 192 kHz. Looking at the Oppo manual, it is unclear what they're doing exactly. On page 63 it talks about the sampling rate being, in part, determined by the number of audio channels (which is new information to me with regards to the HDMI standard). It is also unclear whether the setting of the upper sampling rate (p.64) also has an effect on the HDMI output. It's not explicitly stated that it does NOT, which is not terribly helpful. There MAY have been changes made in the Media Player to accommodate 88.2 kHz - I'll find out more about this later in the week if I get a chance! Cheers - g
As always Geoff, thank you so much for taking the time from your busy schedule to comment.
It sounds as if I'm still out of luck playing M/C SACD's via my Sony Bluray player through the HDMI input then for the time being.
At the time I tried it and got no sound, I checked the Sonys specs, and it outputs DSD converted to PCM at 88.2 as I recall.
It's a glitch I hope can be fixed in firmware/software re the V1/BV11 family, otherwise It's probably time to start saving for the Cambridge Azur Bluray player which up-samples to 96khz if I recall correctly, if I want to play my collection of M/C SACD's.
if there's any further info coming from 'official' channels in Struer on the matter and you are able thus to comment, that would be great!
Many thanks again for the most helpful comments
John: It sounds as if I'm still out of luck playing M/C SACD's via my Sony Bluray player through the HDMI input then for the time being. At the time I tried it and got no sound, I checked the Sonys specs, and it outputs DSD converted to PCM at 88.2 as I recall.
Apologies if I trouble you, but have you tried to play your SACDs recently? I'm curious as to whether you would get a different result, specially because apparently the BV11 media player now supports 88.2kHz sample rates (as confirmed by Geoff).
As mentioned, I've been able to play my SACDs and DSD64 files on my oppo connected to a BV11 via HDMI, but we don't know at what sample rate the oppo player is converting the DSD codec...
Thank you and best regards,
The DSD to PCM conversion by Oppo is at 88.2 kHz.
But if the receiver (f.e. the BV11) of the hdmi signal can not reproduce the audio signal, the oppo player wil convert it to a signal which the reciever can reproduce (44.1, 48, 96 kHz).
Oppo does not specify the format after conversion though
Does that mean that the Oopo decodes to 96 kHz, when the receiver (V1/BV11/Avant) can handle that?
Or do you have to specify that manually in the settings?
John: It's a glitch I hope can be fixed in firmware/software re the V1/BV11 family, otherwise It's probably time to start saving for the Cambridge Azur Bluray player which up-samples to 96khz if I recall correctly, if I want to play my collection of M/C SACD's.
The Cambridge Azur upsamples everything to 24/192 - that is part of the Cambridge 'philosofy'.
I am not quite convinced, that this is the right way to go, and would prefer the V1/BV11/Avant to play back the 88.2 from the OPPO.
By the way there is a huge discussion on the 'net' which PCM format is equivalent to DSD.
Probably the 88.2 is what the OPPO people think is the nearest PCM format to DSD.
But exactly why Oppo has chosen the 88.2 as the output, you don't find defined anywhere.
talfaia: John: It sounds as if I'm still out of luck playing M/C SACD's via my Sony Bluray player through the HDMI input then for the time being. At the time I tried it and got no sound, I checked the Sonys specs, and it outputs DSD converted to PCM at 88.2 as I recall. Hi John, Apologies if I trouble you, but have you tried to play your SACDs recently? I'm curious as to whether you would get a different result, specially because apparently the BV11 media player now supports 88.2kHz sample rates (as confirmed by Geoff). As mentioned, I've been able to play my SACDs and DSD64 files on my oppo connected to a BV11 via HDMI, but we don't know at what sample rate the oppo player is converting the DSD codec... Thank you and best regards, TA
No trouble at all Talfaia
No, I haven't tried playing them again recently.
As I understand it, the media player would come into it when you have a NAS directly attached to my V1, say by USB, or streaming over a network via DLNA - but I'm a Mac user, so no bluray or DSD support, or native DLNA support either - hence I use my Sony Bluray player (which supports SACD and can send out either DSD or PCM via HDMI from an SACD M/C disk) to play my SACD disks - well in theory, because so far it hasn't worked.
From what Geoff has posted, there has been no change as yet to the HDMI inputs, so I would not be crossing my fingers that playing SACDs via my Sony Bluray player/HDMI will work - granted though, it is a much simpler player than the likes of the Oppos or the Cambridge Azurs.
Nonetheless, I'll give it a try again when I have some time next week, just in case.
But really, this is something B&O needs to address IMHO.
Kind Regards
Millemissen: Probably the 88.2 is what the OPPO people think is the nearest PCM format to DSD. But exactly why Oppo has chosen the 88.2 as the output, you don't find defined anywhere.
I can answer this one - since I asked that question to the people at Cambridge. At home, I own a Cambridge DVD/DVD-Audio/SACD player which also spits out an 88.2 kHz PCM signal when the source is DSD (I checked using an HDMI analyser that we happened to have lying around here in Struer...) - so I asked if I can change the output sampling rate.
Their answer was no - for my player, it's stuck at 88.2. The reason is that the sampling rate of SACD's is a multiple of 44.1 kHz (64 times, to be exact - so the sampling rate is 2.8224 MHz). Most players take the easy route and simply run the DSD and PCM clocks synchronously - so the PCM output has to be a factor of 2.8224 MHz. A few players, like the Cambridge Azur Blu-ray player, do asynchronous sampling rate conversion - so they can (at least in theory) output at any sampling rate.
So, the only remaining question is why the players that deliver an 88.2 kHz PCM output from the DSD-to-PCM converter (like my Cambridge DVD player) can't be set to output a 44.1 kHz signal instead. It might be that this is what the Oppo is doing automatically based on the HDMI handshake - but that's just a guess.
Reading the above feedback from Geoff made me realize what a strong performer the Homemedia player in my V1 is!
I spend the week-end enjoying Agnes Obel in Hi-res StudioMaster (24bit / 192kHz) playing via Homemedia to the Beolab 9's. Really wonderful!!
However, it would be even better if the Homemedia User Interface could be further enhanced. Maybe we should make it a separate thread on the Forum to discuss this, but here is my wishlist for enhanced Homemedia Functionality.
- NetRadio (maybe in the next software release)
- A good search function (ideally, a search function which across my music libraries on the NAS, and the music services I am using (Spotify, Deezer, ...)
- Ability to make Playlists
- And, preferably, all of the above not only via the TV screen, but also in a convenient App (I admit all of this is inspired by my Sonos User interface )
Curious what other Beoworlders will add!
@John,
Not a problem, only after I posted my request to you was when I finally understood that the issue was really the BV not accepting 88.2kHz and 176.4kHz audio signal via HDMI. It is kind of odd that it doesn't accept these sample rates but it does accept the higher sample rates of 96kHz or 192kHz...
Anyways, I wrote the Oppo customer service to inquire what my BDP-105D player was really doing when playing back SACD to my BV11 and, after some back and forth, here's what I got:
We have never seen a receiver which does not support 24-bit/88.2Khz PCM. If the receiver does not, then the player will sample down to 24-bit/48KHz.
jans: Reading the above feedback from Geoff made me realize what a strong performer the Homemedia player in my V1 is! However, it would be even better if the Homemedia User Interface could be further enhanced. Maybe we should make it a separate thread on the Forum to discuss this, but here is my wishlist for enhanced Homemedia Functionality.
However, it would be even better if the Homemedia User Interface could be further enhanced.
Maybe we should make it a separate thread on the Forum to discuss this, but here is my wishlist for enhanced Homemedia Functionality.
Hi jans,
There has been a couple of wishes for this in different threads already.
Why don't you just do it?
I'll gladly join forces with you on that subject.