ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi folks
I have a BV10 in my lounge (which is quite a small room). I am looking to include some speakers and I am assessing two options. Either I go with two pairs of Beolab 4s (I like the small, unobtrusive design) or I go with the Beolab 14 surround speakers (4.1). One is of course a cheaper option than the other. But what I would like to know, if possible, is what the difference in sound quality/experience is likely to be between the two options. Is there likely to be a huge difference? I am quite impressed with the bass emanating from the TV already. It is the surround effect that I am really looking for. As I say, it is a smallish room and I am not having to fill a huge area with sound.
Any views very much appreciated, thank you.
C
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
Hi KMA!
That is really helpful, thank you very much indeed. I had forgotten that the BL14 speakers are all connected to the subwoofer (I think....) so that will mean less cable clutter.
Excellent, my mind is made up!
Best wishes
I see that your mind is made up already
But here is a small comment from me anyway.
If you use the BV10 primary for video (and focus on surround sound) the BL14-set is a perfect choice for the money.
I would not choose the BL4's at all!
IMO - if you listen to music a lot, you should rather go for better fronts and wait to upgrade with rears 'when the money is there'.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Tusind tak MM!
Presumably one can always add two rear speakers to a 2.1 BL14 set up at a later date (ie Bang & Olufsen sell the two satellites separately).
Yes, absolutely the BL14s are the way to go. Don't touch the BL4s! Good enough for PC/Mac speakers only in my opinion, much as I like their design. The BL14s produce a great sound and the price is superb for a B&O product with that styling and performance. You definitely made the right decision and will not be disappointed.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
Catullus: Presumably one can always add two rear speakers to a 2.1 BL14 set up at a later date (ie Bang & Olufsen sell the two satellites separately).
Sure you can get hold on the two speakers for rears later.
But my advice would be to buy all right away - will probably give you a better price...
....unless you have spottet a second life 14-2.1 set
I would also consider 4x BeoLab 4 plus BeoLab 11 subwoofer. MSRP compared to BeoLab 14 seems reasonable. Setup might be more work. I think it is worth the difference.
symmes:I would also consider 4x BeoLab 4 plus BeoLab 11 subwoofer. MSRP compared to BeoLab 14 seems reasonable. Setup might be more work. I think it is worth the difference.
KMA: symmes: I would also consider 4x BeoLab 4 plus BeoLab 11 subwoofer. MSRP compared to BeoLab 14 seems reasonable. Setup might be more work. I think it is worth the difference. I wasn't happy with BeoLab 4 even with BeoLab 11 subwoofer. I tried this combination when I had the BeoLab 4s. They just did not sound good, in my opinion, and at that time the setup was in a smallish room. So BeoLab 14 would definitely be the way to go, if I needed a compact surround sound setup.
symmes: I would also consider 4x BeoLab 4 plus BeoLab 11 subwoofer. MSRP compared to BeoLab 14 seems reasonable. Setup might be more work. I think it is worth the difference.
I wasn't happy with BeoLab 4 even with BeoLab 11 subwoofer. I tried this combination when I had the BeoLab 4s. They just did not sound good, in my opinion, and at that time the setup was in a smallish room.
So BeoLab 14 would definitely be the way to go, if I needed a compact surround sound setup.
I was disappointed in my BL4s - started with two as hotel speakers when I was travelling, and added a second pair with the arrival of the BV8.
While I was happy with the BV4 sitting on a hotel table, with its bass resonating, as rear speakers I was disappointed - and have them disconnected.
KMA's original observation (and valuable as so many of his are) about the BV10's interaction is interesting - and I might try this weekend to reconnected everything to see if that was part of my disappointment.
And as I now also have a BL11 I shall test whether that changes the interactions with the BV8.
Always assuming it is a rainy weekend .....
BeoNut since '75
elephant: you took the lab 4s with you each time you traveled? aren´t they too big for suitcases?
AdiS: elephant: you took the lab 4s with you each time you traveled? aren´t they too big for suitcases?
yes ... well sort of: I was spending 4-5 nights in a town and 3-2 nights in the city ... and travelling by train, so they were transportable ... sort of.
There were times when I rented an apartment in the town, and then I left the speakers in situ and relied on my BeoSound 2 and A8s at the other end.
Or when we stayed at a particular hotel over several months we simply put the(ir) case in storage when we were away at the other end
For 18 months we were yo-yos
elephant: And as I now also have a BL11 I shall test whether that changes the interactions with the BV8. Always assuming it is a rainy weekend .....
well it was not rainy, however it was cold so I stayed indoors and I did the tests I outlined in this post
I would say for the trailers tested the BL4 performed well, with the following comment - my initial tests were with three surfaces for the Bl4, as I said my experience in hotels and the home office, was that when on wood the BL4s performed well. Today I tested them as rears on three surfaces: cloth, leather, and wood. They were all 1 metre from my ears, and the BV8's sound volume was 50 -- only the wooden surface allowed the BL4s to perform well.
I have not bought the BL4 stands, so I don't know how they would appear in the equivalent arrangement to the BL14s.
Tomorrow if I have time, I will try the second pair of BL4s as fronts - both with and without the BL11.
It's been so many years since I heard a pair of BL4s I can't remember how they sounded unfortunately. However, just a theoretical approach, I would expect better performance out of a BL4/BL11 combo than the BL14. The 14 has small full range drivers, and I would expect the tiny woofer and tweeter of the BL4 to give better acoustic performance over a wider range of freq. Woofers may be a wash, one as good as the other.
The 14 does have the advantage of simpler wiring, no power just signal to all sats.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
I would also expect a better performance from a 4xBL4/BL11 combo - especially if they are connected to a V1/BV11/BV12NG/Avant with the better bass management and more.
But it would also be a more expensive solution.
I imagine that a pair of the BL4's would fit well into a 7.1 constellation as the two extra speakers.
Millemissen:I imagine that a pair of the BL4's would fit well into a 7.1 constellation as the two extra speakers.
My BV8 is nowhere as fancy/smart as your TV .... however I have created a pseudo 7.1 setup by daisy chaining the additional pair of BL4s to the BL11.
Flipping between [SPEAKER] 4 and 5 is quite interesting in what you can hear and how the sound stage broadens !
KMA:Since you are looking for front & rear speakers for a surroud sound setup, you should note that with four BeoLab 4s, the BV10's speaker will be used for center channel only. This means that you will lose most of the overall bass you hear from BV10. The TV's bass will not be used for left & right channels the same way it is used when BV10 plays on its own without any connected speakers. To enjoy a surround setup built around BV10, you should either at least choose more powerful front speakers than BeoLab 4, or go for the BeoLab 14 option that includes a subwoofer.
To enjoy a surround setup built around BV10, you should either at least choose more powerful front speakers than BeoLab 4, or go for the BeoLab 14 option that includes a subwoofer.
These paragraphs from KMA are what inspired me to get my BL4s out of storage, and spend the past two days playing around with surround sound movie trailers.
As noted above I have created a pseudo 7.1 and 6.1 set-up. I am STUNNED by the different between these two are with the trailer of "Gravity".
In the opening seconds of the trailer you have a sun rise scene where George says "Beautiful, don't you think ?" and Sandra replies "What ?", "The sun rise", and then the edit cuts to George in his suit as he says "Terrific".
In pseudo 7.1 mode (or 5.1 if I switch off my daisy chained BL4s) their voices come from the front i.e. seemingly the BV8 field of vision - even when it is the blackness of space, or the earth below, or the sun rise.
In pseudo 6.1 mode (i.e. the BV8's (centre channel) speaker disabled) I get a far more realistic (i.e. as the editor and director) wanted:
George is speaking behind me in my left ear, and Sandra is behind me on the right.
Also the few notes that play at the start of the trailer are in completely different positions and have quite a different clarity of tone.
If in 5.1/7.1 mode I put my ear close to the right rear I can hear Sandra's reply coming through although the BV8 pulls the focus to the front - George's voice is not even on the left rear BL4 !
I have also found that it is quite important to ensure the BL4s are at ear height .... regardless of the [SPEAKER] setting.
That's quite interesting!
Where are your rears located, and where did you place the (pseudo)rears?
How does this setup behave with other movie soundtracks?
Millemissen:Where are your rears located, and where did you place the (pseudo)rears?
See http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/11016/96059.aspx#96059
All of this investigation was to test the BL4s in surround sound mode (see the BL14 versus BL4 thread). So in testing Ice Age 3 I tried a range of [SPEAKER] settings, including the second pair of BL4s daisy-chained from the BL11 and positioned the speakers as follows (I am centre of the clock dial and looking to the BV8 at 12 o'clock): 12 o'clock = BV8 centre speaker & BL11 11 & 1 o'clocks = BL3 10 & 2 o'clocks = daisy chained BL4s ie a subset of the sound as routed and filtered through the BL11 7 & 5 o'clocks = BL4s Surprisingly this pseudo 7.1 setup was actually an enriching experience, and running in pseudo 6.1 mode was good too ! At 56 seconds into the trailer some ice falls off the eyes of the squirrel ... and the sound of the tinkling ice is clear and is relocated in 6.1 mode !
All of this investigation was to test the BL4s in surround sound mode (see the BL14 versus BL4 thread).
So in testing Ice Age 3 I tried a range of [SPEAKER] settings, including the second pair of BL4s daisy-chained from the BL11 and positioned the speakers as follows (I am centre of the clock dial and looking to the BV8 at 12 o'clock):
12 o'clock = BV8 centre speaker & BL11
11 & 1 o'clocks = BL3
10 & 2 o'clocks = daisy chained BL4s ie a subset of the sound as routed and filtered through the BL11
7 & 5 o'clocks = BL4s
Surprisingly this pseudo 7.1 setup was actually an enriching experience,
and running in pseudo 6.1 mode was good too !
At 56 seconds into the trailer some ice falls off the eyes of the squirrel ... and the sound of the tinkling ice is clear and is relocated in 6.1 mode !
I then got stuck into testing "Gravity"'s trailer .... depending upon how tomorrow shapes up I may redeploy this lot and test against "The Hobbit" the desolation of Smaug"
Means: they aren't (extra)'rears', but 'high's' - pseudo, of course.
Millemissen:Means: they aren't (extra)'rears', but 'high's' - pseudo, of course. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Maybe you should secure a patent for that setup
Beolab 4 is plastical crap **** :).. It was designed to use with your PC or for some sound in the kitchen or bedroom... NOT to use it with an 4.1 or 5.1 setup..
I know you like the Beolab 14 ... but what did you think of a pair Beolab 4000 MK2 as front... Beolab 6000 MK2 as rear and a Beolab 11 as sub ? I think that's sound much better ;)
Yes it's quite expensive but a much better combination I think... and a Beolab 2 is too heavy... That is only good to use with 8000's or Beolab 1's...
Millemissen:Maybe you should secure a patent for that setup
Perhaps I should !
Anyway I did a whole range of tests: 4 x BL4 and 2 x BL3 + 2 x BL4
No surprise
The best combination was 2 x BL3 + 2 x BL4 because the BL3s were great for music, however the 4 x BL4s were pretty good as just surround sound speakers - backed up by the Bl11 sub-woofer.
Ok!
When i was in our Collins Street store today, I finally got to demo the BL14's. They actually blew me away that they sounded that good.
I have the BL4's which I do love, but the BL14's were more powerful and richer and all round better.
I demoed stereo as L and R and surround sound via a movie trailer. They were just awesome.
Well I have gone ahead and purchased the BL14 (2.1) from the very helpful and very efficient B&O store in Sheffield. Thank you Nick - your patient advice appreciated! A superb price too.
I am going to set up the speakers this weekend and can't wait to hear the difference, particularly when it comes to playing music. I will hopefully add a couple of rear satellites at a later date when funds allow it.
From a purely visual perspective, the subwoofer is much bigger than I had anticipated. But I like it a lot. It is hard to know how to describe it. A stylish bollard?! Not sure that description really works!
Thanks for all your advice folks. This is a great forum for gaining advice and inspiration.
Good decision, enjoy it!
Catullus:Well I have gone ahead and purchased the BL14 (2.1) from the very helpful and very efficient B&O store in Sheffield. Thank you Nick - your patient advice appreciated! A superb price too. I am going to set up the speakers this weekend and can't wait to hear the difference, particularly when it comes to playing music. I will hopefully add a couple of rear satellites at a later date when funds allow it. From a purely visual perspective, the subwoofer is much bigger than I had anticipated. But I like it a lot. It is hard to know how to describe it. A stylish bollard?! Not sure that description really works! Thanks for all your advice folks. This is a great forum for gaining advice and inspiration. C
Hi Catullus,
Congrats on your new Bl14..
In your initial post you wrote "It is the surround effect that I am really looking for."
So why didn't you go full the full (BL14-4.1) package right away?
And yes - please report back on your impression for video as well as music (stereo).
Millemissen:Hi Catullus, Congrats on your new Bl14.. In your initial post you wrote " It is the surround effect that I am really looking for. " So why didn't you go full the full (BL14-4.1) package right away? And yes - please report back on your impression for video as well as music (stereo). MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Well, I stand corrected
Just wondered, because it seemed to be 'first priority' in the op.
Just in the process of setting up the speakers and getting the wires hidden under the carpet (which has turned into quite a mission....).
Quick query about the connections. Am I right in thinking that for the 2.1 set up, one does not connect the s/c output on the sub to the subwoofer Powerlink connection on theTV? All that is needed (it appears from the instructions) is for the two speaker outputs on the sub to be connected to the corresponding 'Front Speaker' powerlink connection on the TV...
I just wanted to check because it seems odd not to be using the sub output on the TV.
thanks
For the 2.1 setup you connect the Sub output from the TV to the BeoLab 14 Sub as well. The speaker types should be set to BeoLab 5 on the BV10 and Subwoofer should be enabled on the BV 10 as well.
Thanks Livius. I was getting sound out of the sub without it being connected to the subwoofer connection on the TV.....mystery!
Many thanks
Catullus:Thanks Livius. I was getting sound out of the sub without it being connected to the subwoofer connection on the TV.....mystery! Many thanks C
The BeoLab 14 Sub has a 4 position type switch to select the type of input. There are 2 modes when B&O equipment is attached to the Sub
- Systems from before the new audio processing platform, i.e. using the DIN PowerLink connectors. In this mode the Sub is managing if the sound is going to the Sub or the Satellites.
- Systems with the new audio processing platform, i.e with the RJ45 connectors, where the audio processor is taking care where the sound is going.
As Cattulus is using a BV10, I would not expect a difference in most cases. Only the discrete LFE channel would be missing if the sub cable is missing.
Double post