ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I tried the ambisonic option today of my Beomaster 4000.Now Dolby 5.1 or DTS is nice for films but for music I do not really like it.Does not sound realistic to me as the music tends to come from the speakers.So i did not expect ambisonic to be interesting.
But I tried it today and boy what a surprise.Normal stereo cd's gave effects I thought were impossible.Now in stereo I do not really have the problem that the music comes out of the speakersand with a nice amp and good set off speakers i do get a nice soundstage.But using 4 speakers and setting the switch to ambisonic amazed me.The depth even good deeper and the instruments were even more placed in the room.Pink Floyds High Hopes has better depth and the piano left is far more to the front then the bell that seems in the distance on the right.
The bee in the beginning of the song seems to be flying around in your room and you even hear her flying on the right of you.The album is not one of my Floyd favorites and I did not remember this bee or maybe never noticed it but the realism tricked me for a moment I thought there was a real bee around.The rainstorm on Alan Parsons "The fall of the House of Usher II (Arrival) sounds like you are in it. Not all albums or songs have such an extreme effect, some just get a little more depth.You only hear the difference if you swith the ambisonic off otherwise you would think it is normall stereo.Still there plenty of albums that get more alive when you have it switched on. Must say I was quite surprised that such on old technique (1972) could generate such outstanding effect.
This technique can really provide some impressive sounds. Back in the day I built a box based on the old Hafler Dynaquad thing, even eventually had a Dynaco box that did this. Key is not making the rears too loud, they should just make the whole recording sound deeper, with more air and such, than really call attention to themselves (unless the recording has something like the bee that's designed to sound like it's moving around).
But you called it, on the right music it can sound just amazing. Back in the days of the old Dolby Pro Logic being the only surround out there for movies, I had a Fosgate processor that had a music mode that did this but with true L and R for the rears, and on music it sounded just amazing. Switching it off suddenly made the whole air and soundfield collapse.
Makes you wonder why multichannel audio never took off doesn't it?
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
BeoNut since '75
You have convinced me: I'm going to try it out today!
What speakers did you use, and how did you place them?
Jacques
Hi Jacques,
I used the IMF Super Compact as front and the Visonik David as rear. Even with just 2 speakers I get already a quite good soundscape as the attic where I listen seemsto be quite well suited for listening.So I can also understand why 4.1 sounds more realistic then 5.1.A good stereo recording can put the voice in the middle and you would swear the sound comes from there.To Jeff :Makes you wonder why multichannel audio never took off doesn't it?It took off for films for me but the music experience was terrible (even in stereo).Probably because my amps where and are not good enough.When I bought last year an old seventies receiver and connected that one my Sony VSX-1021 soundedlike a transistor radio compared to it.The ambisonic tries to enhance the depth effectSometimes you hardly can notice but if it can be quite effective in some cases to add the to the realism.
elephant: To my ears 4.1 seems to produce a deeper sound field - more immersive.
To my ears 4.1 seems to produce a deeper sound field - more immersive.
...if you sit in the right/the sweet spot!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
I am trying it at the moment, but I don't get any effects. Ambio on, sound coming out, polarities correct.
How did you place rear speakers ? They are about 30 degrees behind each side.
Not tried the Alan Parson track yet, but I've got the LP!
I did not have them in the ideal position.
I had them maybe 50 cm behind me on ear hight and directed to me.My Beomaster has also a switch on the back i switched to ambisonic.Both speakers selected in the front.Not all CD's get an improved effect.The ones that have a lot of depth in stereo seems to get the best results.For instance try Amused to Death of Roger Waters or High Hopes from Pink Floyd.I used the CD, not MP3.Roger Waters song "To much rope" even in stereo the carriage seems to disappear left from you and you even hear the horse there.If you swtich ambisonic on the effect gets stronger.Now it will not disappear 45 degrees left side next to you but much more towards you (sounds like 75 degrees). Like i said my attic sounds really nice, my living room sounds terrible compered to it.Maybe the roof helps to improve the acoustics, I have no idea
I remember experimenting with DIY "ambisonic" setups when I was a kid. It usually sounded great when you first set it up - and equally great when you removed it a week later after getting bored. I suppose the infatuation can last if you keep the satellite volume very low.
The ambio effect of '70s Beomasters is close in principle to the earlier Ortoperspekta systems produced by a few Finnish manufacturers, invented by Tapio Köykkä of Voimaradio. So close that he actually sued B&O and won - they payed royalties on the ambio amps to Voimaradio (or Salora, who owned the rights at that time). Ortoperspekta had only one large center speaker and two small output satellites, which was great when amplifier power was still expensive.
Basic principles are nicely outlined here:
http://www.hovirinta.fi/audio/monikanavatekniikat/multi-channel_audio.htm
--mika
Right!
Beomaster 4400, Beovox M70 and S45 as rear speakers. It works!
Kate Bush, Feel It, what an eerie piano! Elixir's Tip of Memory has a real depth effect.
I guess phase effects in the recording itself, such as stereo echoes does everything here. I'm not sure the effect is entirely natural, but it's fun!
The 4400 is a fantastic amplifier by the way!
However, the Alan Parson storm stays firmly between the speakers on the LP - fully analogue - version. Was the CD a re-mixed version with enhanced effects? Possible...
Oh, and by the way, my listening room is a 350 square feet attic as well!
Will try Kate Bush feel it asap.I have CD's.The Alan parsons versions is the remastered one with the 2 versions.I listened to the some version you have on the LP (first edition).Maybe because it was remastered there is a difference ? I will pick next week a Beomaster 4400 (they say it is defective but will try to repair it)Now have the 3000-2 (in very good condition) and 4000 (problems with the switches and looks used).Did you had the change to compare the 4400 with one of those ?
Oh yes, the Beomaster 4400 is the best sounding of all, no doubt about it!
Millemissen: elephant: To my ears 4.1 seems to produce a deeper sound field - more immersive. ...if you sit in the right/the sweet spot! MM
Correct - I re-arranged the furniture so that I was exactly in the sweet spot.
I also clamped my head so I could not move ...
Is that really you?
Millemissen: Is that really you? MM
He could tell you, but then he'd have to kill you!
Wouter