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Hi,
I have asked Beocare the question IF you can play Hi-resulotion FLAC-files (192khz/24-bit) with Beosound 5/Beomaster 5.
The answer below says that "formats above 44,1 khz will be downsampled to 44,1 khz". BUT, If I use the SPDIF-out on the beomaster 5 and connect this cable to my Beovison 7-55, then the D/A-conversion will be in the BV7 instead of Beomaster 5. Will it still be downsampled to 44,1 khz if you use this SPDIF connection instead?
Please, does anybody know IF BS5 really downconvert Hi-res FLAC-files to 44,1 Khz?
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The answer I got was from B&O
Hi Martin,
Thank you for contacting Bang & Olufsen Customer Service. Please excuse the very late reply.
The BeoSound 5 supports the following formats:
M3U, M4A,WMA (including lossless),FLAC,MP3, MP2, WAV, ASF and AAC (MAC format)
BeoSound 5 can play FLAC formats up to 24 bit / 192 KHz but formats above 44.1 kHz will be downsampled to 44.1 kHz.
Please observe that the WAV formatcannotcontain metadata/tag information resulting in albums being listed as”Unknown album”
Support for MP3 tag information ID3v2 up to and including version 2.3
We recommend using WMA lossless when ripping from Windows
BeoSound 5 will output the same as the input.
It does not support Spotify Connect but has a built-in Spotify player which cannot be controlled by an iPhone. unfortunately. A solution could be to add a BeoSound Essence to your setup.
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/beosound-essence as we currently have no plans of introducing Spotify Connect for the BeoSound 5,
Please contact your Bang & Olufsen retailer for information about your possibilities with adding a BeoSound Essence to your setup.
Kind regards,
Ina Bang Andersen (Ms) | Customer Service
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NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
The BS5 can play 24-bit/96 KHz FLAC-files without any problem. And I do not believe these get “downgraded” to CD quality. The best proof for that is that when I listen to such a file and turn MOTS on, the following music files that are played are all in high resolution, MOTS does not select music files in CD quality (and vice-versa for CD quality music: with MOTS turned on, you never get to listen to high-resolution music).
The BS5 can NOT play 24-bit/192 KHz files however, at least in standard form. But in this old thread, you will get some indication on how to make it work: http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/8289.aspx
Note: I have not tried it myself, so I cannot confirm whether it works.
I hope this helps!
VANTAGE
Current: Beovision Eclipse 65" v1 - Beolab 50 - Beolab 28 - 2 x BS2 (GVA) - 1 x BS1 (GVA) - Beoremote Halo - H9i
Past:
Beovision MX4000 - Beovision 3-32 - Beovision 7-55
Beosound 9000 - Beosound 5 / Beomaster 5
Beolab 6000 - Beolab 8000 - Beolab 5 - Beolab 3 - Beolab 17
Hi Vantage,
Thank You for your response.
If I connect the Beomaster 5 with SPDIF-out connection to my Beovision 7-55 (SPDIF-in-connection), then the D/A-conversion will be in the Beovision 7-55 instead of in the Beomaster 5. I think this should "garantee" that a FLAC-file with 96khz/24-bit will be played at correct sampling rate. What do you think of using the SPDIF-out(digital connection) from Beomaster 5 instead of Masterlink(analogue connection)?
If we "don´t know" for sure what´s happening in the Beomaster 5 when you play a High-resulotion file and how the soundcard in the Beomaster 5 will do the D/A-convertion, then maybe the best way is to use the SPDIF-out and let the Beovision 7-55 do the D/A-conversion from digital to analogue sound.
RegardsMartin
Good point - I have no clue honestly, but it's worth a try to compare between the two setups.
Klaus
Hi Klaus,
I have been digging deep in the Beomaster 5 components. The BM5 has a DSP-chip called MAS3530h by Micron. This DSP is a multichannel-DSP and it just support maximum 48 khz output SPDIF (and I suppose they have finetuned the chip to sample CD:s at 44,1 khz). This means that if we play Hi resulution FLAC-files (96/24 or 192/24) the output will be 44,1 khz, both with SPDIF or Masterlink/powerlink. Important is that the SPDIF-signal will go through the DSP-chip before it goes to the SPDIF-output-connector in the beomaster 5. Thats why the SPDIF-signal will be downsampled to 44,1 khz.
I asked Beocare about that other setup I mentioned to you, connecting SPDIF-cable from BM5 to Beovision 7-55 (or direct to Beolab 5).
The answer from Beocare is that the output sampling rate still will be 44,1 khz at any case. (se the answer and my question below)
This means that there is NO reason to play Hi-resolution files with the Beosound 5 system. Thats a real pitty!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I just needed to run this by a colleague in the technical support team, hence the late reply.
We always recommend connecting SPDIF out from the BeoMaster 5 directly to the speaker. There should only be a noticeable difference if you have BeoLab 5 speakers, otherwise, there should be no difference in the sound spectre.
A high-resolution FLAC file will be down-sampled to 44.1 kHz.
I hope this answers your questions. Otherwise, do not hesitate to contact us again.
Bang & Olufsen A/S | Peter Bangs Vej 15 | DK-7600 Struer | Denmark
www.bang-olufsen.com| www.beoplay.com
Customer By Email (Martin Ström)
17/07/2014 10.40 AM
Thank you for your answer.
IF I connect the Beomaster 5 with the SPDIF-out-connection with my Beovision 7-55, then the D/A-conversion will be in the Beovision 7-55 instead of in the Beomaster 5. Will a FLAC-file with 192khz till be downconverted to 44,1 khz when the beomaster 5 is sending “bitstream” from its SPDIF-out connection to the Beovision 7-55 SPDIF-input connection?
Your answer that files above 44,1 khz will be downsampled to 44,1khz is based on that D/A-conversion will be in the Beomaster 5 (i.e using powerlink connection or Masterlink connection with Beomaster 5). But If I use the SPDIF-connection, will the High-resolution FLAC-file still be downsampled to 44,1 khz?
RegardsMartin Ström
Från: BeoCare [mailto:bogo@mailuk.custhelp.com]Skickat: den 17 juli 2014 10:13Till: Ström, MartinÄmne: Hi, I have a question about Beosound 5 and spotify. Does Beosound 5 support Spot... [Incident: 140711-000374]
Unbelievable...for that kind of money!
Anyway, I'm still waiting for a human being to prove that he can hear the difference between 44,1/48/96/128...
The difference between 16 and 24 bit is really easy to hear on good stuff, but for the sample rate, it's not the same thing...
diisign.com
I am still waiting for the record companies to tell me/to prove, that what they offer as 'highres' initially was 'highres'.
Maybe that is why we can't hear the difference!
Besides only a good recorded and well mastered piece of music, even in Red book resolution (16/44.1) offers great quality.
I stopped chasing 'highres' - now I am chasing well recorded/mastered music.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
At the time the BS5 was created, 'highres' music was no issue.
It was made to store your MP3 files - later on came the lossless support (in 16/44.1)- and to give you easy access to them.
B&O was never 'promising' support for more....even for 'that kind of money'.
You would need a different hardware for that.
Beoport was made to store your MP3 files!
Not the beosound 5.
Change the hardware,Change the navigation....B&O do something
Barry Santini: Pay more attention to your room nodes and optimizing phasing, reflections, etc. HRA, for what it is trying to promise, is a canard IMHO.
Pay more attention to your room nodes and optimizing phasing, reflections, etc.
HRA, for what it is trying to promise, is a canard IMHO.
I would agree on the first one!
But not on the last! It is ot a 'canard' - but the trouble is, that you don't come across 'real highres' (highres from the start of the production right 'till the file, you actually can buy) very often.
koning: Change the navigation....B&O do something
Change the navigation....B&O do something
Of cource I accept your wish for that kind of support.
But how many of the BS5 costumers, do you think, would want it too - or even would want to pay for a HW-upgrade of their BM5 (if possible)?
I am.
So what the beosound 5 concerns...this is it???
Hi Konig,
I believe that this is it:-(.
Maybe the beosound Moment that Will come in the autoumn will handle hi-res flac files!
regards
Martin
Millemissen: I stopped chasing 'highres' - now I am chasing well recorded/mastered music. MM
Bravo! Excellent decision, our main problem in the world of music is there's not enough that's well recorded. We wind up arguing about the chef's knives and fail to discuss his skill or lack thereof.
My experiences show, to date, HRA benefits to be completely illusory and don't stand up to controlled testing, at least for any combination I've seen or heard. Most people have a hard enough time telling the difference between RedBook and even low bit rate MP3 when the test is controlled and blind. Which is quite a shocker when it happens to you and people you know who thought they had "golden" ears.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
lonfred:Now you put the finger on the missing part again, an higtech up to date Beoport (or call it something else) should solve all this that is missing
The BeoPort was/(is) nothing but a bridge between a computer and the (ML) BeoLink system.
Certainly this bridge could be improved by upgraing the HW/DAC..
But basing an audiosystem for the future on a running computer would be catastrofal.
A future system will - like it or not - have to be based on online services (music and netradio).
And might - as a bonus - support localy stored files in the network as well (NAS or Computer) via the DLNA functionality.
If you can not hear the difference between mp3 and hi-res then you must seriously go to an ear doctor.
see also
http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/41746/346422.aspx#346422
Strange the SPDIF comes directly from the motherboard. My BS5 has a EPIA EX motherboard with audio specs
"VIA VT1708A High Definition Audio"
with the correct driver the SPDIF output should be higher than discussed.
koning: If you can not hear the difference between mp3 and hi-res then you must seriously go to an ear doctor.
I don't know who you mean with 'you'?
I am talking differences between a red book resolution (16/44.1) and the higher so-called 'highres' resolutions.
MP3 compression was not the issue for me - not at all!
Really quite an ignorant statement...it assumes all MP3 or lossy encoding schemes are the same, when clearly they are not, you get to choose how much compression.
And, I will tell you that you make the exact same snide, kind of supercilious statement all the "golden eared" audiophiles in the local club did when we started handing out test CDs of lossless and lossy files, and not one of them could tell the difference in controlled tests at bit rates lower than the Apple iTunes uses.For most users we had to get well below 96kbs before they even started to get statistically significant results. I did better than most, not because my ears are any better, but because I know how to choose music that stresses a perceptual encoder. And even I couldn't hear the difference at 128kbs reliably, and not at all by 256kbs.
But every princess must have their pea apparently.
You is not the right word,i mean everyone who could not hear any difference.
I'm listening through my grado ps500 headphone and ibasso dx50 musicplayer.
And the difference is huge!
We have made our three statements.
Maybe we should then concentrate on the question asked in the op?
Carolpa provided a link to a post in the 'archived'.
The last post (from Geoff Martin) speaks only of the Encore, so basically we don't really know about the BM/BS5.
My 'guess' is, that they did not have 'highres' in mind at the time the BM/BS5 was created.
If it is possible to run additional driver on the hardware (Carolpa mentioned which one), I don't know.
I don't know either, if someone has tried to do so.
I am rather sure, that there won't be any official 'solution' from B&O for that.
The BM/BS5 combo has had it's time.
A lot of people love it as it is - and will continue to use it for years.
But it is not the kind of gear, that they will focus on in Struer for the next years.
In some ways I like it - though I never got quite warm with it. It took too long to mature, and still is not able to rip to FLAC.
It is really easy
download from:
http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/boards/450/1/EPIA_EX_(EOL).html
the right audio hd driver and install the driver
koning: You is not the right word,i mean everyone who could not hear any difference. I'm listening through my grado ps500 headphone and ibasso dx50 musicplayer. And the difference is huge!
What bit rate? What encoder? Are the levels scrupulously matched? To within 0.1 dB, on both channels. Did you test blind, so that you had no idea what you are listening to?
Without the above controls, you are fooling yourself if you think what you hear is really a difference between the actual audio and not other things. Sorry if that confounds you, but it's true and I've seen it happen many times. You are off to the right start, about the only way to hear differences is with good headphones, but without the above controls you're as likely to be imagining what you hear as not.
There's an entire body of testing evidence on this if you care to Google for it. Modern encoders, particularly Apple's AAC encoder (it pains me to say as I'm generally not an Apple fan though I use their products where they make sense for me) are particularly good.
The AAC decoders are from Dolby and used by Apple (so don't be sorry if you're not an Apple fan)
Carolpa: The AAC decoders are from Dolby and used by Apple (so don't be sorry if you're not an Apple fan)
I knew they originated with Dolby, but thanks for posting the information anyway. I just couldn't let a good chance for an Apple dig go by!
They are a particularly good encoder set though. When we did our tests we assembled a CD with the piece in regular CD format, a copy of it that had been converted into an AAC file and then rewritten back to wav/CD format, then offered 8-10 (depending on track length) tracks that were either the original track or the AAC track selected at random. We let each person choose the music track they wanted, and uniformly the non-technical audiophile types who buy into all the bogus pseudoscience of wires and such picked pieces that they thought would make the encoder fail, but were ideal for the encoder to succeed. Pieces that were complex and had a larger number of instruments, which is where encoders work best. My test track was solo, unaccompanied female vocal. Each person had as long to listen to the discs as they wanted, on whatever system or systems they wanted to use, and they failed miserably to identify the compressed files.
This doesn't say every listener will have the same results, or every music piece will be identical in results, but it sure does demolish the whole "If I hear MP3s I can identify them immediately and my ears are so sensitive I run screaming from the room" attitude we saw a lot in the testing. The real world differences are vanishingly small in most cases, not huge.
Martin: Hi Klaus, I have been digging deep in the Beomaster 5 components. The BM5 has a DSP-chip called MAS3530h by Micron. This DSP is a multichannel-DSP and it just support maximum 48 khz output SPDIF (and I suppose they have finetuned the chip to sample CD:s at 44,1 khz). This means that if we play Hi resulution FLAC-files (96/24 or 192/24) the output will be 44,1 khz, both with SPDIF or Masterlink/powerlink. Important is that the SPDIF-signal will go through the DSP-chip before it goes to the SPDIF-output-connector in the beomaster 5. Thats why the SPDIF-signal will be downsampled to 44,1 khz. | Strange to use a DSP which will convert every 2ch signal to Dolby PrologicII. You're sure it is this DSP. Why convert everything to Prologic II if the BS5 can't reproduce it??
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Strange to use a DSP which will convert every 2ch signal to Dolby PrologicII. You're sure it is this DSP.
Why convert everything to Prologic II if the BS5 can't reproduce it??
Carolpa: Strange to use a DSP which will convert every 2ch signal to Dolby PrologicII. You're sure it is this DSP. Why convert everything to Prologic II if the BS5 can't reproduce it??
Strange to use a DSP which will convert every 2ch signal to Dolby PrologicII. You're sure it is this DSP. Why convert everything to Prologic II if the BS5 can't reproduce it??
How/why does 'Dolby ProLogicII' enter the scene???
ProLogicII is an encoder that creates multichannel surround sound from a stereo track?
And that does not happen in a BM5.
Hi MM
the DSP discussed does convert 2ch input to Prologic II output.
This doesn't seem correct. So the DSP is obviously another chip than the MAS3530h
Hi Carolpa,
I found out that Bm5 have this chip by looking in the service-manual for the Beomaster 5. IF you look at the specs of this dsp-chip you can custommade it for two-Chanel audio where the chip decodes spdif-signal to two-channel pcm and after that the pcm-signal goes to dac inside Bm 5.
Maybe Geoff Martin will give us the right in information about this topic.
I have put another question to Beocare: If BM5/BS5 will downsample also 24-bit audio to 16-bit audio? They havent mentioned this at all. The most important for audioquality is that BM5 will still play 24-bit files in 24-bit. If it downsample 96khz to 44,1 khz will not be so important.
I will comeback with an answer as soon as I get one regarding possible downsampling of 24-bit Flac-files.
Barry Santini:In retrospect, i think it was misleading for B&O to say in their specs for the BM5/BS5 that it "played" 96khz/24 FLAC files. They should have said it would read these files, but down sample to CD 16bit/44.1 khz. B
If the DSP in the BM5 doesn't passthrough the SPDIF signal, which the chip settings allow, than it would almost be sure one would end up with a downgraded signal.
Than even my old BeoMedia 1 with the right HD Audio driver installed would give a better audio signal through SPDIF. This SPDIF is coming direct from the moherboard and is not going though a DSP.
I really would appreciate B&o to be open about this!
+1
Still no answer about the downscaling.
Come on dealers!