ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello there; I own a BS5/BM5 since a year. I stored in the BM5 about 1,800 CD's of various musical genres.
When I do use the MOTS, I realized that the sequences are sometimes really casual.
In some sequences there are sogs that are nothing to do with the previous ones and the next ones.....
Dii you find the same problem?
Hi November35
Yes we encounter similar issues.... a track by Agnetha Faltskog can suddenly be followed by Greig and then followed by Lisa Stansfield. Ive really kind of given up on MOTS, especially for a party as you never have any idea where it is going to go!!!!!!!
Often it will also play the same song over and over as I may have a particular track on different albums e.g. Dancing Queen might be on ABBA Gold, Arrival, Greatest Hits..... and it will play it from each album.. so certainly More Of The Same!!!!!!!!!
Sorry I don't have any suggested solution!
David
Beovision 8-40, Beocentre 6-26, Beocentre 2, Beolab 9's, Beogram 7000, Beogram 9500, Beo 5, Beolit 1000, 800, 700, 600, 400, Beocom 6's, Beotalk 1200
One thing I've always been curious about is the difference between MOTS and Apple's Genius. No one I know has ever done the experiment of taking a BS5 and iTunes libraries with the same songs, seeding them with the same start song, and seeing how they differ in the playlist they come up with. Neither B&O nor Apple are forthcoming with details of the algorithms they use to select songs, they are pretty closely held. I have no person experience with MOTS, but on Genius it can come up with some odd matches. I was saying to my wife once how did it get from this to that, and she listened for a minute, and said same tempo, or beats per minute (she being the musician would key on that). I guess it knows BPM, year song came out, artist, genre, album, and probably more. How it combines that into a playlist...who knows?
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
I have no hard facts (probably no-one has?) on the Genius, but I believe it works collaboratively, picking up the ideas from comparing your playlists to other people's playlists.
MOTS on the other hand works on the music itself.
--mika
That's one of the inputs, but it works even if you refuse to share any information, that is you don't exchange any info with the Genius servers. Maybe it covertly does even if you tell it no, certainly Apple and others are guilty of that all the time.
Jeff: One thing I've always been curious about is the difference between MOTS and Apple's Genius. No one I know has ever done the experiment of taking a BS5 and iTunes libraries with the same songs, seeding them with the same start song, and seeing how they differ in the playlist they come up with. Neither B&O nor Apple are forthcoming with details of the algorithms they use to select songs, they are pretty closely held. I have no person experience with MOTS, but on Genius it can come up with some odd matches. I was saying to my wife once how did it get from this to that, and she listened for a minute, and said same tempo, or beats per minute (she being the musician would key on that). I guess it knows BPM, year song came out, artist, genre, album, and probably more. How it combines that into a playlist...who knows?
MOTS was developped in Austria in the late nineties and to my understanding its algorithm was licenced to B&O.
MOTS compares audio files and recognizes similarities in rhythm. Based on press descriptions of the algorithm it calculates features which are critical to our listening and which characterize a song by its audiosignal (rhythm, frequency, sound patterns etc). From these features, MOTS calculates and files statistical models which represent specific songs / music titles in a compressed form.
Depending on the music title to begin with, the seeding can be quite similar. With my BS5, I sometimes reseed with a different song - a simple operation with the GO button...
In essence, I consider MOTS as being rather sophisticated and nicely complementing play lists which are also possible in BS5. My question would be if the algorithm gets developed and refined further as it was launched 5 years ago...
BeoNut since '75
Hello!
I somehow have the impression "my" mots always chooses the same songs. Independent from the first song I select. And listening for some hours some songs are chosen twice!My library is about 40GB with 6000 songs - so there shouldn't be a problem selecting a good variety.
Anyone with the same "experience"?
Best regards, Elmar
What I have noticed is that MOTS only picks songs within the same resolution category. This means that if you have both MP3 files, lossless files (44.1 KHz-16 bit) and "HD audio" files (above CD quality) on your BS5/BM5, MOTS will not mix music files from these categories. In other words, if you start with a lossless music file, MOTS will never include an MP3 file or an HD audio file afterwards - it will only play lossless music.
This does indeed prove, at least to some extent, that the system works by analyzing the files individually, and is not based on statistics or user preferences unlike Genius.
VANTAGE
Current: Beovision Eclipse 65" v1 - Beolab 50 - Beolab 28 - 2 x BS2 (GVA) - 1 x BS1 (GVA) - Beoremote Halo - H9i
Past:
Beovision MX4000 - Beovision 3-32 - Beovision 7-55
Beosound 9000 - Beosound 5 / Beomaster 5
Beolab 6000 - Beolab 8000 - Beolab 5 - Beolab 3 - Beolab 17
Unfortunately I am having the same problem.
I don't think it could be different for the other owners of this device.
Now the device in order is out of production, but do you think it was fair that B&O after taking all these money, let us all with a device working not properly?
A software upgrade in this sense it should be done....
absolutely - I'm hoping that there will be software updated in future; life goes on...
Have you done a totall rescan of your musicfiles?
koning: Have you done a totall rescan of your musicfiles?
no; just uploaded new music files thinking that BM5 will recognize them an add to the MOTS library
Elmar
Hi VANTAGE -
I do have the same impression when listening to the MOTS baased playlists. Do you know if your assessment has been officially confirmed by b&o already ?
If not, this might be something to bring forward - in my personal view in combination with the request to having this changed - so MOTS can chose indemendent from the file quality.
Hi,
I don't think this has ever been confirmed by B&O, I can only say that I have never experienced it otherwise: I know exactly which of my files are in high resolution, for example my Beatles collection purchased on USB-stick, and which are not (regular CDs that I have ripped). I experimented with MP3 at one stage, and it was the same, MOTS always stays "within the same category" (I have deleted these files since then, since BL5s don't like MP3, and so it should be ;-)
As for any further software development, I think we can forget it: the product has been discontinued for some time now, and there is enough development to do, it seems, on the Moment. Therefore, the only way to "mix" files of different quality is to create your own playlists using the colour buttons.
I hope this helps!
Vantage
Hello Jeff,
I do have all my Cd's collection (about 1,800 Cd's) both in Beosound 5 and in iTunes (obviously in different formats), and I tried more times to compare the two systems.
The result is that iTunes generates playlists much better than BS5.
As you wrote, nobody of the two companies wants to talk about the algorythms used, but someone well-informed told me that the MOTS just utilize the BPM (this explains the really strange playlists it generates), and in my opinion not even the BPM are similar in the playlists. It looks mora a random.....
Interesting, thanks for the info. I've not known of anyone else who has the same music in both systems. I do know that if you look at the metadata on Apple iTunes tracks, beats per minute is one parameter. But it obviously knows genre as well, as it never mixes say Devo and Bach together, they music seems related at least more by genre, though harder rock can be mixed with more pop oriented rock. It also seems to stay fairly close to similar years as well.
Obviously both highly guard their algorithms, almost as well guarded as the secret formula for Coca Cola, or the 11 herbs and spices in Kentucky Fried Chicken!
Life goes on, but till the date, no software update.... I understand that the head of B&O is actually more preoccupated to keep the company alive than other issues. But doing that, leaving the customer unsatisfied, I don't think they are doing their best for the company good.