ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
kimchr: +1 on s/pdif out on the Moment. I will use it if integrates seamlessly with existing speaker groups on beosystem 4.
+1 on s/pdif out on the Moment. I will use it if integrates seamlessly with existing speaker groups on beosystem 4.
And how is that supposed to work - any thoughts welcome?
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: kimchr: +1 on s/pdif out on the Moment. I will use it if integrates seamlessly with existing speaker groups on beosystem 4. And how is that supposed to work - any thoughts welcome? MM
I know it is alot to wish for.
I think as a minimum, being able to create a speaker group with only s/pdif connected speakers would satisfy many. Then I could have a speaker group for serious audio listening utilizing the s/pdif connection and another group where my BL5s are "analog" front L/R in my cinema setup.
Of couse being able to mix and match digital and analog in any way would be very nice...
David Andel: Millemissen: Just install JRiver on your pc and use JRemote on an iPad as the remote - for what more can you ask? It's not what I want. And I’m not (and never will be) using a computer running Windows. How were you able to integrate their complete lack of esthetics into your B&O scenario?
Millemissen: Just install JRiver on your pc and use JRemote on an iPad as the remote - for what more can you ask?
Just install JRiver on your pc and use JRemote on an iPad as the remote - for what more can you ask?
It's not what I want. And I’m not (and never will be) using a computer running Windows. How were you able to integrate their complete lack of esthetics into your B&O scenario?
Sorry - I did not want to offend you. But i feel temptet to notice, that there is a JRiver version for Mac also
Personally - although I am a Mac user too/a former Windows user - I don't care much for the host OP, when it comes to creating a good working audio solution. This can be done with Mac, Windows or Linux - if you do it right!
I had the understanding, that you solely wanted to use the BL5's, and suggested a way to use an excellent software audio player, that can draw on the files on a NAS (if you want to) and in addition can be controlled from an iPad (or rather from an app running on an iPad).
I am sure, that you have a very clear idea of, how/what such a device (let's call it the BS Moment) could be.
But I am also sure, that your descriptions of it, does not make it clear to me, what you want it to do/what you want to achieve with it.
I understand, that it should have the spdif/digital out, and that you are not thinking of integrating your BL5's with a B&O tv.
Things like "I wanted a more homogeneous, sensitive B&O-like approach", "It could serve as a link between your already existing sources and the digital active speaker," however brings me no step further to understand, what you wish for.
Reading about the BS Moment/a future B&O audiosystem in the threads on Beoworld, has revealed different - often very different - wishes for how the system could/should be.
I am sure the guys in Struer have their own ideas on, what it will be.
Some of us will be disapointed - others will be content and surpriced (maybe even excited) of what they have made.
In your situation I would be happy with my BL5's - and find the best way to use them for many years to come.
Obvisiously it is not going to be with a B&O device - but does it really matter (to you)?
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
kimchr: I think as a minimum, being able to create a speaker group with only s/pdif connected speakers would satisfy many. Then I could have a speaker group for serious audio listening utilizing the s/pdif connection and another group where my BL5s are "analog" front L/R in my cinema setup. Of couse being able to mix and match digital and analog in any way would be very nice...
Creating a speakers group is something, that goes on in the audio engine of the (newer) BV's.
You can easily hook up any device with a digital/spdif out to the BV (there is one input), and you can create a specific speakers group with your own tweeked settings for that input. No problem there.
But the speakers would still have to be connected to the BV - either via PL or WiSA. And you would have to control the device (the BS Moment) independently - via an app or manual...and your BV for choosing the source, volumen control etc.
@Chris
I can't play that video.
Probably it is restricted - due to some copyright issues of the music played - in Germany, where I am located right now.
What does it show us then?
Millemissen: kimchr: I think as a minimum, being able to create a speaker group with only s/pdif connected speakers would satisfy many. Then I could have a speaker group for serious audio listening utilizing the s/pdif connection and another group where my BL5s are "analog" front L/R in my cinema setup. Of couse being able to mix and match digital and analog in any way would be very nice... Creating a speakers group is something, that goes on in the audio engine of the (newer) BV's. You can easily hook up any device with a digital/spdif out to the BV (there is one input), and you can create a specific speakers group with your own tweeked settings for that input. No problem there. But the speakers would still have to be connected to the BV - either via PL or WiSA. And you would have to control the device (the BS Moment) independently - via an app or manual...and your BV for choosing the source, volumen control etc. MM
...hence not a solution if you would like to drive your BL5s / BL20s digitally with your B&O equipment.
Chris Townsend:It plays music at normal MP3 quality, then continues in Lossless. It then subtracts the MP3 music from the lossless track, and you are left listening to everything that's missing between the two. Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Beovision 8-32, Avant RF 28, Beolab 8000, Beolit 12, Beocom 2, Beotime, H6, Form 2.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
Chris Townsend:Search YouTube for "how good is lossless sound quality"
I'll approach the problem in a different way, from the source.
I've just have a quick squint at a typical digital synthesiser workstation (Yamaha Motif XF), it's audio is generated as 16 bit 44.1Khz. Most modern pop music is samples of samples and so we can only guess the original quality (but I'd be pretty certain it isn't "HD"). But that's pop music you say, what about high quality recorded classical or jazz music. In that case how good are the microphones that recorded the live performances, are they able to capture 44 or 48Khz sounds (and are they even remotely linear at those frequencies, even if they could)??
I would be fairly confident in hazarding a guess that conventional microphones, nevermind the studio favourite vintage microphones, are nowhere near being able to make use of the extra bandwidth offered by higher sampling frequencies, in which case maybe HD is purely down to the additional bit depth - from 16 bit to 24 bit. I doubt anyone really live or listens in an environment where they could take advantage of the full dynamic range of 16 bit let alone 24 bit.
I believe the real reason we have 24 bit and 88/96/192 sampling rates is that, as they are beyond our ability to hear, all subsequent DSP is pretty much also inaudible and, in the final stage (with a well recorded and mastered piece), downsampling and dithering can produce a very good 16 bit 44.1Khz recording that is at least the match of human hearing - however as the master is at 24bit 96Khz (or whatever) why not sell it to the end user as a premium source file, at a premium price - after all this is the market to sell coals to Newcastle at a handsome profit!!
There are good engineering reasons to record, mix and master at 24 bit 96KHz - however I don't believe it is because there is extra content there that we couldn't hear before, it's because there is less lost and less noise/distortion added during the subsequent processing and mastering than would be the case if the recordings were originated in 16 bit.
Ban boring signatures!
Oh and what speakers are they using to hear these differences - if the difference is in the 20 -20,000Hz range then I would be very suspicious of the content of the HD and CD quality files being compared.
I
Millemissen: Aussie Michael: Everyone often quotes these but they mean diddly squat (nothing to me). Can someone please inform my feeble brain :-) i could - ir at least could try to. But - as I am in need of spare time - I suggest you start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth or here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3tfly9mKhY&feature=youtube_gdata_player or here: http://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textbook/intro_to_sound_recordingch9.html#x33-5870008 And welcome to a life-long study MM
Aussie Michael: Everyone often quotes these but they mean diddly squat (nothing to me). Can someone please inform my feeble brain :-)
Everyone often quotes these but they mean diddly squat (nothing to me).
Can someone please inform my feeble brain :-)
i could - ir at least could try to.
But - as I am in need of spare time - I suggest you start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth
or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3tfly9mKhY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textbook/intro_to_sound_recordingch9.html#x33-5870008
And welcome to a life-long study
Puncher:Oh and what speakers are they using to hear these differences - if the difference is in the 20 -20,000Hz range then I would be very suspicious of the content of the HD and CD quality files being compared. Ban boring signatures!
BeoNut since '75
elephant:Of course it could be that some one who takes care and time to produce a studio master at 192 might be taking care of many aspects in the overall process. Thus producing a better resulting recording over others in the market ....
But that's what I said in the 4th paragraph - or weren't you paying attention!
Puncher: I'll approach the problem in a different way, from the source. I I There are good engineering reasons to record, mix and master at 24 bit 96KHz - however I don't believe it is because there is extra content there that we couldn't hear before, it's because there is less lost and less noise/distortion added during the subsequent processing and mastering than would be the case if the recordings were originated in 16 bit.
You have some pretty interesting - punchy - points there
Puncher:But that's what I said in the 4th paragraph - or weren't you paying attention! Ban boring signatures!
elephant: Puncher: But that's what I said in the 4th paragraph - or weren't you paying attention! Ban boring signatures! Sorry Teach !
Puncher: But that's what I said in the 4th paragraph - or weren't you paying attention! Ban boring signatures!
Sorry Teach !
Good lad - have the rest of the day off!
That's about 1 and 1/2 hour - you are very generous
Millemissen: That's about 1 and 1/2 hour - you are very generous MM
In Oz he get's more than a whole half day!
...and coming back to the original topic...
Any more news or hints or rumours...
Millemissen:Sorry - I did not want to offend you. But i feel temptet to notice, that there is a JRiver version for Mac also
No offence taken. Well thanks, yes, I didn’t know.
I understand. It sometimes is just annoying having to mix environments or accept half-baken solutions because the market is ignoring or misunderstanding you. Unfortunately, this is quite often the case as revenue is much more important than perfectionism.
I can already do all of this but am still not giving up on a digital B&O solution as I’d love to be able to e. g. control the volume or choose my music with a mechanical knob. I could compare the actual situation on this level with their phone range now completely disappearing. I desperately wanted to buy a BeoCom 2 but was never able to find out if it was compatible to anything else than a B&O base station. I read here that most of you consider landline phones as old-fashioned which is surprising me considering how successful VoIP actually is and how much better the transmission quality can be compared to usual mobile phone solutions. Many people in Germany for example are using a quite multi-talented communication device called FRITZ!Box. Now if B&O would have only offered a DECT/GAP compatible handset for something like that, they could have sold their phones endlessly.
In a way, yes. But I’m still able to compromise if elsewhere than the audio level.
Quite simply explained: Give me a wireless control knob for the volume and music selection like the Essence has and give me a box to hide somewhere being able to communicate with a remote iTunes server (which is, after all, still quite dominant in the music sector). The device should accept digital formats and connections on the entry level (can also be wireless but should be recent) as well as it also should be able to output them digitally to speakers like the BeoLab 5 and other models from B&O. So it might be a missing digital link between the B&O world and external audio sources while the whole thing could be controlled either via the screen of a B&O TV set or tablets based on iOS/Android. It seems to me quite close to something like the Essence but a bit more sophisticated on the audio/input level. I insist: no rocket science at all!
I finally decided against a TV set from B&O, yes. But then again, I’d never switch on my TV or whatever giant screen for making a music choice. That would be equally weird as using the BeoLab 5 for playing the system sounds of your computer.
Things like "I wanted a more homogeneous, sensitive B&O-like approach", "It could serve as a link between your already existing sources and the digital active speaker," however brings me no step further to understand, what you wish for. Reading about the BS Moment/a future B&O audiosystem in the threads on Beoworld, has revealed different - often very different - wishes for how the system could/should be. I am sure the guys in Struer have their own ideas on, what it will be.
Let’s hope so! And their vision might not be ours. But then again, I’m just one possible customer, you too. I might, however, express my deception continuously …
Some of us will be disapointed - others will be content and surpriced (maybe even excited) of what they have made. In your situation I would be happy with my BL5's - and find the best way to use them for many years to come. Obvisiously it is not going to be with a B&O device - but does it really matter (to you)?
I am happy with the BeoLab 5. It might unfortunately be the last/biggest B&O investment in my life. I love modern design and excellent build quality so I always will be sad if B&O do not follow my specific needs. It also is generally disappointing that they first create one path and then afterwards change their direction. There’s currently no real alternative for B&O on the multimedia level, you know. So I’d really wish to remain their customer.
Puncher:There are good engineering reasons to record, mix and master at 24 bit 96KHz - however I don't believe it is because there is extra content there that we couldn't hear before, it's because there is less lost and less noise/distortion added during the subsequent processing and mastering than would be the case if the recordings were originated in 16 bit.
It might be of some interest to you that if you’re digitally calculating/adjusting the volume of your speaker (like in the BeoLab 5) you’re losing some bits for doing so. So the sound processing unit needs to be always more powerful than the signal it finally is putting out.
That I why the DSP of the BL5 uses 32 Bit floating point calculation.
You don't have to worry a bit (!) for loss of quality - not at all.
There are no 32 Bit sources (and even if, there were - the BL5 would not accept them on the input side).
Only one problem - where is 'here'?
Well, as with everyone else I'm anxious to see just what it is and looks like. And how it integrates. I'm pretty happy with my PM but also ready to be convinced I must have whatever the new thing is.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Probably because the panel/the screen can be taken off - and ....put onto the 'dockingstation' again.
Chris Townsend:On a plane from India to Singapore by the sounds of it [:\'(]
All kinds of stuff in that box!
Even a Avant 85" - and a 75" version too.
I see a V1-32" - must be one of the last.
And 2 Encore's - for what?
Wonder who is the receiver of these goodies?
Singapore is a long way from 'here'.
I hope it will be unveiled at the CES.
Some say february in the stoes, some in spring,...
Introduction standalone at CES. Deliverable the end of January 2015. Multiroom by means of software: May 2015.
geert bergmans:Introduction standalone at CES. Deliverable the end of January 2015. Multiroom by means of software: May 2015.
Better late than never !
Very excited ! A new BeoSound i always a great event...
Oh lord how would I stop sinning for a boombox that plays gapless apple lossless files and handles airplay native on 5 Ghz
Yendys:I hope it has many of the features speculated about in this thread and will allow me to replace my BS3000 as audio master with connected playmaker to distribute sound throughout the home...
Please do remember, that you will need the NL/ML Converter to connect the BS Moment to an existing ML network.
It is rumoured that the Moment has no support for AirPlay (?).
If that is what you basically use your Playmaker for, you are going to miss that.