ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Chris Townsend:When can we expect to see it in the shops?
That's a point . It does look a bit like the shop fittings doesn't it ?
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Simonbeo: Chris Townsend:When can we expect to see it in the shops? That's a point . It does look a bit like the shop fittings doesn't it ?
Ban boring signatures!
Oh, the Beosound 5 is a complete mistake!
It is a beautiful object, visually. I think it looks better than the Beosound Moment (but I haven't seen it yet for real) and they did a better job in making it look not like an embedded iPad, but the concept is totally wrong.
B&O insisting on bringing physicality to dematerialised music is indeed the main cause of these mistakes. The cursors, and wheels, although beautifully crafted can't compete with the usability of a touch screen. Using a cursor creates an additional layer or indirection between you and the command you want to activate. A touch screen allows a more direct interaction.
The BS5 had more mistake, the first one, is that it the panel wasn't detachable. But the interface had many flows as well. For example, the rotating/movement of album covers when you turned the wheel, is something the eyes couldn't follow at high speed. The eyes can only follow objects going into a line (because of the muscles that control its movements). The BS Moment has fixed these two issues.
But the BS Moment still suffers from the fact that B&O insist on some physicality. They made it a System, a Hifi that you need to see in the room. Sorry for sounding like a broken record, but the base has no meaning, no function what so ever (in term of interaction), so in term of "design should be meaningful", or "form follows function", this base should be hidden. The only function it has is to be a charger for the JukeBox and a way to present it so you can interact with it without holding it. So that's what they need to bring, an elegant charger/presenter. And while I am at it, they should have wall version of that charger as well. I am sure they will eventually bring this charger - then one can choose to hide the box or not and everybody's happy.
B&O should in fact forget about making it (just) a music system, the JukeBox shouldn't be just a JukeBox, but a two-way remote for the whole B&O system: Sound, Video and Home Automation. You should be able to control the sound in every room, even those who have a TV or an Essence (AKA the new Beolink Active). But this is just a software thing, so I am sure this will come eventually.
That said, despite my rant/wishes,I still think the BS Moment is a much better concept and is a lot closer to being the ideal music player. I am not searching for a music system right now, but I do not see any show stopper in it.
Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons.
One thing I've been thinking about regarding the handheld double sided "Pad" portion the BeoSound moment is real life use.
We take the pad off the base, and place it down somewhere... of course the touchscreen portion is capacitative, and the volume wheel metal is touch sensitive, so crud on a table top or other surface shouldn't affect, what about the Oak Surface?
I'm concerned about wear and tear on placing it flat somewhere, how durable is the Oak, the glass, the metal, etc. I'm sure B&O have thought of this, but I haven't yet come across a picture of the moment where the touch pad is placed flat on a table, I've seen it on the cradle, and leaning against a wall / mirror, but not flat. Now, mind you, I'm sure there are pictures out there, but the "official" ones from B&O don't show it in that, very "real life" setting.
Well, B&O also choose to not show any wires connected to anything either. lol
So here is another Demo video which I didn't see yet within this thread (sorry if I missed it):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Vz6aqVlpk#t=281
Steffen: Millemissen: But did they have an alternative then - touchscreens, as we now see in millions, were not there, when the BS5 was designed/engineered Hmm - that's not quite true. Touchscreens were there when the BS5 was designed. I remember B&O saying, that they did not want a touchscreen on the BS5 - but, as Phil wrote, - they made the wheels to give it that physicality, that a touchscreen do not have. I remember at the launch of the BS5, where I saw a lot of people fiddling around with their fingers on the screen, thinking that it was a touch screen.
Millemissen: But did they have an alternative then - touchscreens, as we now see in millions, were not there, when the BS5 was designed/engineered
But did they have an alternative then - touchscreens, as we now see in millions, were not there, when the BS5 was designed/engineered
Hmm - that's not quite true. Touchscreens were there when the BS5 was designed. I remember B&O saying, that they did not want a touchscreen on the BS5 - but, as Phil wrote, - they made the wheels to give it that physicality, that a touchscreen do not have.
I remember at the launch of the BS5, where I saw a lot of people fiddling around with their fingers on the screen, thinking that it was a touch screen.
Not quite, but...
...the first iPhone/iPod Touch came in 2007, and people had already gotten used to 'touching', as the BS5 came out a year later in 2008.
But the conception and the devellopment of B&O products at that time took very, very long.
As the made this device, they could not imagine, that touch devices would be the de facto standard in a very short time..
The were touch displys before, but none that could have been used for a controller for the BM5.
Especially not behind a thick piece of 'BV7- looking' glass.
They did, what was best at that time.
The iPad came in beginning of 2010 and was a revolution
They should have read the signs on the wall at that time - and should have reacted.
But they did not - untill now.
Introducing a product for accessing non-physical media in 2015 without touch control would be suicide!
They however have done the right thing with the volumen control wheel (and skipping tracks etc).
That is a comfortable thing to have access to - without having to touch the screen.
And do remember that you can manage basis functions of the Moment with a Beo4/BeoRemoteOne.
Still some physical elements there - where it is usefull.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Thanks for that link. Still not sure what's authentically Beo that couldn't be run on an iPad as a download.
and that clunk when the guy turned the pad over in the dock ; not nice.
Whatabout the placements options.
Is it possible to hang it on the wall,just like the beosound 5?
Moment fits me well because - just by accident - my sources of music are iTunes library and Deezer. Sometimes radio over TuneIn.
All of this I can (and I do today) access via iPad/iPhone/MacMini. From separate apps.
BUT: I don't have these sources integrated, plus - I can't just press PLAY and choose the mood and not care where from a certain song was coming... ...was it Deezer or is it in my lib. So that means for me I need to attend it constantly and click here and there, while I would prefer to just let a music system do that for me.
Album listeners clearly will not see such a tremendous benefit in Moment's concept.
Sal: One thing I've been thinking about regarding the handheld double sided "Pad" portion the BeoSound moment is real life use. We take the pad off the base, and place it down somewhere... of course the touchscreen portion is capacitative, and the volume wheel metal is touch sensitive, so crud on a table top or other surface shouldn't affect, what about the Oak Surface? I'm concerned about wear and tear on placing it flat somewhere, how durable is the Oak, the glass, the metal, etc. I'm sure B&O have thought of this, but I haven't yet come across a picture of the moment where the touch pad is placed flat on a table, I've seen it on the cradle, and leaning against a wall / mirror, but not flat. Now, mind you, I'm sure there are pictures out there, but the "official" ones from B&O don't show it in that, very "real life" setting. Well, B&O also choose to not show any wires connected to anything either. lol
I would not worry much about this.
Of course, if you are mean to that thin, it will wear off.
I've seen some pretty mistreated Beo4's - I can tell you.
Apart from the official B&O pics, there aren't any pictures out there, but those that I have uploaded (none that I am aware of).
So you will have to wait untill after the launch (23th this month - my dealer gets them by then) to see
the Moment in real surroundings.
In the meantime you might believe me, when I tell you that I have seen that thing lying around on the sofa with
people sitting there - no problem.
But I would not let my kids jump on it - of course
@AnalogPlanet
Thanks for pointing out, what I have been trying to say all the time
This sounds exciting:
"Dear Jaap, thank you for your interest. The multiroom feature will be rolled out to multiple products. There is no need for an "audio master" in the system, meaning that you can combine any two products, for forming a multiroom session. The BeoMusic App will be able to control the multiroom system. More information would be available around summer time. Regards, Product Management Team"
Hi Everyone...If I wanted to add a Beosound Moment to my Master Link setup,all I need to add,is the Moment and a NL Converter to get my Master Link to work and that gets the Music through to my Beolab 3500 in another room and the Speakers in my Bathroom as well?
Bv7Mk3:Hi Everyone...If I wanted to add a Beosound Moment to my Master Link setup,all I need to add,is the Moment and a NL Converter to get my Master Link to work and that gets the Music through to my Beolab 3500 in another room and the Speakers in my Bathroom as well?
Thank you for the Quick Reply Mjmedlo.
1990:This sounds exciting: " Dear Jaap, thank you for your interest. The multiroom feature will be rolled out to multiple products. There is no need for an "audio master" in the system, meaning that you can combine any two products, for forming a multiroom session. The BeoMusic App will be able to control the multiroom system. More information would be available around summer time. Regards, Product Management Team"
vlohjr1:Does this mean that if you have multiple essences in different rooms you can achieve multiroom without the moment? If so it will save a lot of money!
Yes, when it gets the software update this summer.
To summarise, it means you will be able to have any combination of Essence, Moment and Beovision, and pass the sound of any of them onto any other device. And to one or more device.
In fact there's nothing NL can't do, it seems.
Now all we need is to be able to send Video around as well and then it will br true Multiroom!
Bv7Mk3:Now all we need is to be able to send Video around as well and then it will br true Multiroom!
What you can distribute from the Essence, will unfortunately be limited to what the content/licence holders allow.
As of now you are not allowed to distribute a built-in AirPlay function on the network.
Same goes for Spotify.
That will be the case with video as well - at least with certain sources.
Not that B&O would not want it - and not that the NL-technology would not allow it.
But we will have to live with certain limitations due to - imo - 'overreaction' of the copyright and licence owners.
Another point is:
How can we/B&O keep the controlling of a system, that allows distribution from everywhere to everywhere, simple?
That will be a challenge.
I - for my part - want a setup, that is easy to use.
I don't want to have to dig deep into an app just to play music on one or more of my clients/speakers,tv's.
Just like MasterLink, NL (the protocol) does only carry Audio and Data.
As it is routed through IP/Ethernet, other protocols can be used to transfer videos. Can't NL Beovision access DLNA video files from a NAS?
For sharing a external video sources, such as a BlueRay player or a Set-top Box, this is achieved by the use of Matrixes, and HDMI connections.
p.
That will probably be the better way for distributing video sources (if one need that at all).
There are too many limitations for that to be integrated in the NL protocol as well, I suppose.
Millemissen: As of now you are not allowed to distribute a built-in AirPlay function on the network. Same goes for Spotify.
Are you sure?
The restriction I am aware of for AirPlay, is that it can't be re-distributed wirelessly. I am not aware of limitation by cable.
The restriction I am aware of for Spotify, is that a given account can only play 1 song at a time (you can't have room 1 playing a song, while room 2 plays another song from the same Spotify account). This is to avoid that people share their account with friends. I am not aware of limitation for distributing 1 single song to other rooms.
Millemissen:How can we/B&O keep the controlling of a system, that allows distribution from everywhere to everywhere, simple?
PhilLondon:Sonos allows this just fine... Download the Beoworld app at http://appstore.com/beoworld - Now with direct photo upload and emoticons.
vlohjr1:In which case what is the point of the moment as I thought it was the 'master' which drives the essences
The Essence is an audio system as well. It's interface is the "knob" (or the Beo4/BeoRemote) + the BeoMusic app on your iPad.
The Moment is an audio system that can additionally be controlled by the superior JukeBox, and that has additional features, such as PatternPlay and the Mood Wheel.
It's like before when you could buy a BS4 or a BS9000... 2 audio systems with different features and price.
P.
PhilLondon:The Essence is an audio system as well. It's interface is the "knob" (or the Beo4/BeoRemote) + the BeoMusic app on your iPad. The Moment is an audio system that can additionally be controlled by the superior JukeBox, and that has additional features, such as PatternPlay and the Mood Wheel. It's like before when you could buy a BS4 or a BS9000... 2 audio systems with different features and price. P. Download the Beoworld app at http://appstore.com/beoworld - Now with direct photo upload and emoticons.
PhilLondon: Millemissen: How can we/B&O keep the controlling of a system, that allows distribution from everywhere to everywhere, simple? Sonos allows this just fine...
Millemissen: How can we/B&O keep the controlling of a system, that allows distribution from everywhere to everywhere, simple?
Sonos allows this just fine...
I am not aware, that Sonos will support AirPlay or could distribute what is send over AirPlay - that is not in the nature of the Sonos system either.
Spotify on Sonos - Yes!
It was often mentioned (on the forum), that Sonos has and old agreement with Spotify.
I guess Sonos won't let go of this.
But Spotify has not allowed (or will not allow) the same in other cases - feel free to correct me!
The want to push their Connect version of distributing audio.
N.B. And with NL/B&O we are not talking distribution of only one source (Spotify), but of multiple sources to multiple clients - which indeed will/would be a challenge for an intuitive user interface/interacting with the system.
vlohjr1:I see thanks Phil Presumably the multi zone feature is driven by the app just like the sonos and the updates to the essences? Thanks for clarifying Vince
PhilLondon:To summarise, it means you will be able to have any combination of Essence, Moment and Beovision, and pass the sound of any of them onto any other device. And to one or more device. In fact there's nothing NL can't do, it seems. Download the Beoworld app at http://appstore.com/beoworld - Now with direct photo upload and emoticons.
BeoNut since '75
elephant:And add an NL/ML converter to your list of end points ?
PhilLondon: I wonder what the two USB ports ports are about??? And the IR connecter is also a RS232 connector... Are they going to merge the Beolink Gateway and the NL Converter into one?? Download the Beoworld app at http://appstore.com/beoworld - Now with direct photo upload and emoticons.
elephant:Now that would be nice ... and probably come at a cost.
Interesting, because the NL converter has more connections, and has more electronics (DAC+ADC), but it is sold cheaper then the Beolink Gateway...
PhilLondon: You're right, there's a Powerlink socket on the NL/ML converter, and a connection for an IR receiver, and an AUX IN. So it's indeed the successor of the Beolink Active, it's also a mini audio system in the sense it can have a source!!
You're right, there's a Powerlink socket on the NL/ML converter, and a connection for an IR receiver, and an AUX IN.
So it's indeed the successor of the Beolink Active, it's also a mini audio system in the sense it can have a source!!
After now having learnt more about the NL-update, I would rather regard the Essence as the 'successor' of the BL Active.
And what a successor - one that in addition to giving accesss to sources from e.g. the Moment - also
has it's own - multiple - sources built in.
One that can be remote-controlled by the 'wheely', the BeoRemote (with an ir-eye connected) and the BeoMusic app
But you are right - the NL/ML Converter is an underrated piece of gear.
I always tell people - who want/need one - to plan, where it should be located.
Well planned it - in addition to the converter functions - indeed may serve as an 'Active Link-box'.
B&O has officially recommended to use a Playmaker (Option 0/Line-level-output) with the Aux-in of it.
PhilLondon:I wonder what the two USB ports ports are about??? And the IR connecter is also a RS232 connector... Are they going to merge the Beolink Gateway and the NL Converter into one??
I have reflected a bit on that subject... and I think the Beolink Gateway is probably redundant with NL. The proof: all NL devices can be controlled with the BeoRemote App, without a BeoLink Gateway. That's because NL devices implement the new BeoRemote protocol, which is an IP based protocol.
For the moment, the BeoRemote protocol isn't open, but it would just need for B&O to open it and document it. Or for a crazy nerd to reverse engineer it.
Maybe this firm has done that crazy nerd stuff?
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/polymote/id799373417?mt=8
The Polymote app was mentioned several times on the forum.
A few Beoworlders use it.
Mostly because they wanted something for their phones.