ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
So, this is my first post here after lurking for a few months! I have enjoyed reading about all the different adventures and amazing repair stories from other users - I am in awe of the skills on display! In fact knowing this forum exists was one of the reasons I felt I dared to jump into the B&O pond myself :) After much reading and geeking out on tech details I decided that the target system for my first ever B&O set-up should be the Beovox 5700 speakers, paired with either a Beomaster 6000 or (budget permitting!) 8000, with other bits added later on (the remote being one thing, a Beogram another). I've always wanted a pair of 70s monster speakers and having fallen in love with the design of the 6/8000 systems I felt it had to be B&O all the way. Can't beat matching wooden trim, and the 5700s are about as "monster" as anything they've done!
I'm happy to be able to say that after a couple of missed opportunities and failed eBay bids I have finally secured a pair, in decent-ish condition, and at a price that while on the high side is juuuust within the reasonable :) I should be getting my hands on them sometime next week!
Now the thing is, these speakers have been around and are pretty grubby. The dust caps have (of course) vanished, and there's a fair amount of dust and dirt on the cones and surrounds. So they will need some restoration work before I can start using them! Now if I'm going to strip the elements out of the boxes for cleaning and dust-cap replacement, I might as well take the opportunity to replace the original wiring and the caps on the cross-overs. I have read enough stories about the improvement a re-cap on these particular speakers can offer to know it's something I'll want to do!
My question to the forum is simple: what capacitors will I need for a full re-cap of the 5700 crossovers? I have the circuit diagram, and a couple of high-res photos, but I'm not able to identify the types from either. Are some of these caps bi-polar? What are the chunky rectangular things with colour coding stripes - film caps? What about voltage tolerances, these are not noted on the diagram? Ideally I'd like to order the cap sets and the dust-caps so I get them in time for next weekend, so I can do the work then - your help is much appreciated!
Many thanks,
Lomax
Some photos:
Some pictures of the 5700 cross-over (not mine):
The crossover diagram shows 2-3.3-5-12-100 uF, the part list in the manual says 3,3-10-50 all 25V, one 4.7 uF 50V all bipolar, and one 1uF 250V so wait until you have your speakers and can check them in the flesh.
The missing dust caps makes me wonder, why would someone take off the dustcaps ??
The wood works are an easy fix, but dont buy anything before you have checked all drivers, and which caps and more you will need for the crossovers. Also the 5700 should have some connection for tweeter cubes, + potentiometers for sound adjustment (not sure about this).
As for the crossovers, B&O sometimes made changes, during production, these changes did not always show in the manual.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Hi Søren!
Many thanks for your reply! I guess you're right about checking my actual crossovers before ordering anything - just eager to get them working! Thanks for sharing the service manual data - so all the caps are bipolar electrolytes? The rectangular ones look like (old) film caps to me, though I'm not sure.
The 5700s almost always have missing dust caps, something to do with the material they were made of. It's probably nothing ominous, though I am a little concerned that junk may have ended up in the coil gap. The seller assures me that all drivers are fully functioning, so if there is a problem I expect I can ask for some form of refund. Otherwise I wouldn't have jumped!
Re. the wood, I'm not terribly worried about the water stains etc, like you say this can probably be fixed with relative ease, should I want to. More important is that the boxes are structurally intact, with no crushed corners etc. The 5700 doesn't have the external tweeter connection, or the level adjustment, that you mention - you're most likely thinking about the (older but still awesome) Beovox 5000!
Many thanks again for your input - I'll hold off on ordering those caps!
Right, I got it mixed up with the 5000s, I have here the 3700 speakers, same family, they plays every day.
The rectangular caps are film caps and normally OK, if bad, the color code will tell you the size, and that would be the 1uF 250V that is listed in the part list.
Worth noting that there are two different versions of Beovox 5700!
Martin
I would be a little cautious using 5700s with a Beomaster 8000 - the 5700 was deigned for use with the Beomaster 4000. The 8000 is more powerful and it was designed for use with the MS150. Most music you play will actually be at about 1W so no problems but the 8000 does have a damped volume control which can lose its damping and an inquisitive child could inadvertently give it a good twirl! The 5700s take 60W and peaks of 100W so are ideally suited to the 4000. The 4400 or 6000 (stereo) are unlikely to give issues either.
These are not common speakers so it is good to see a pair about to be put back into service.
Peter
Dillen:Worth noting that there are two different versions of Beovox 5700!
Do you mean the 5702? IIRC, these are easily identified by the 5702 having an oval shaped passive slave (made by KEF?), as opposed to the circular one in the 5700, and a different arrangement of the drivers. Or did you mean something else? Here's a photo of a pair of BV 5702 (not mine). It's worth noting the disintegrated surrounds on the slaves; this appears to be a common problem with these:
Peter:the 8000 does have a damped volume control which can lose its damping and an inquisitive child could inadvertently give it a good twirl!
That is a very good point, and I fully recognise that the BM 8000 is a little over the top - not only in terms of power, but also size, complexity, rarity and cost! It also easily has the capacity to fry the speakers if something malfunctions. The fact that you can tell the MCU to jump directly to a (very loud) pre-set level (8.0?) also makes me a little wary, should it decide to do so on its own accord... :o The more I think about it the more sensible a (stereo) BM 6000 seems - I'm just so totally in LOVE with the design of the 8000, with the large displays and volume/tuning wheels; the 6000 is damn sexy as well but not quite as drop-dead gorgeous ;) Another important thing to note is that the design of the amplifier section in the 8000 is much more advanced and high-end, the 6000 is a pretty basic amp in comparison (from what I've seen of the innards). I'm also very interested in the remote control possibilities of these machines; I understand they used a very early version of MCL (called DataLink?), and that the BM 8000 implementation is more advanced than the 6000 - though I do not know the details! Perhaps someone here knows more about this? Also, and I know this is a crazy idea, maybe it would be possible to limit the max volume on the 8000 somehow?
Peter:These are not common speakers so it is good to see a pair about to be put back into service.
Thank you! We'll see how it goes; looking at the photos again today I'm starting to get a little worried - particularly the MF 500 drivers look like they're in really bad shape, they're moldy and the domes appear to have begun to separate from the spiders (enlarge pictures 5 & 7 above). I've seen people restore these, so I know it can be done - if the coils are still fine - but it's not for the faint of heart. I'm kicking myself because I had a pair of 5700s in mint condition (even one of the dust caps was still intact) that I could have bought for just a little bit more money, but I hesitated and lost out :( They are indeed quite rare; in the two/three months I've been looking I've only seen three pairs in the UK that were in "working" order. Hopefully, with time and patience - and the help of the knowledgeable people here on BeoWorld - I'll be able to get them back in good enough shape that having missed out on a mint pair won't feel so terrible :)
Thanks to everyone for your valuable input!
Beovox 5700 came in two different versions, Type 6229 and Type 6253.The main difference is the midrange driver and the crossover filter was changed accordingly.(Beovox 5702 is Type 6251)
Furthermore, two different woofers were used in Beovox 5700Is your woofer a Philips AD10100/W8 or a Norelco AD1056/W8 ?
Dillen:Beovox 5700 came in two different versions, Type 6229 and Type 6253.
Ah yes, I see what you mean now. Mine are the (earlier?) type 6229.
Dillen:Is your woofer a Philips AD10100/W8 or a Norelco AD1056/W8 ?
Don't know, as I haven't actually got the speakers yet - I expect them to arrive later this week though!
Lomax:I'm also very interested in the remote control possibilities of these machines; I understand they used a very early version of MCL (called DataLink?), and that the BM 8000 implementation is more advanced than the 6000 - though I do not know the details
Not sure there is a large difference between 6000 and 8000 in terms of remote control. Datalink is very useful in my view, it allows you to turn on your beogram and beocord automatically when you press the right key on the remote. After, it depends if you want to use your 8000 in multi room configuration.
I had a 8000 system andI I really like this amp (stunning and massive design). The 6000 is also beautiful but less impressive. In my opinion, the beocord is mandatory to complete the full design !!!
Lomax:another important thing to note is that the design of the amplifier section in the 8000 is much more advanced and high-end, the 6000 is a pretty basic amp in comparison (from what I've seen of the innards).
"much more advanced" also means "much more complex to repair" ;) so be careful to buy an unit that has been well serviced before buying it (or you will finish with a beautiful but expensive barbecue like me)... But you will find help here to avoid this.
Enjoy you B&O experience, it's a very pleasant hobby
No speakers yet and it doesn't look like I'll get them in time for the weekend either :( I have asked the seller to satisfy himself that they are indeed "fully functional" as per the description before shipping them; that is that all the drivers work and don't make scratching noises. I realised that having bought them as "fully functional" I might end up finding they are not, only to have to deal with returning 50kg worth of junk - and that the seller might not even take my word for it! We shall see.
Jacquesboo:"much more advanced" also means "much more complex to repair" ;) so be careful to buy an unit that has been well serviced before buying it
That is very true, and I am a little scared of the beast that is the BM 8000. For this reason, the excessive power, and the likely high cost, I think I'm going to be sensible and aim for the 6000 instead - though I am keeping an eye out for both!
Jacquesboo:Not sure there is a large difference between 6000 and 8000 in terms of remote control.
Doesn't the BM 6000 require an add-on board to support a remote?
The whole remote control situation is rather confusing (which remotes work with which models, what extra bits are needed, etc), and so is the multi-room support (or lack thereof) but I found this rather excellent summary right here on BeoWorld! I would love to be able to pipe the output from the BeoMaster to the dining room, and control it from there as well - but it looks like I'd need a very rare box called the "MCL-BeoLab kit" (Type 1006/1007) in order to do so.
Hi all, digging up this thread because i am starting to restore 2 sets of 5700's i have and it does make sense to open them up first, before ordering (wrong) caps:
turns out 1 pair is type 6229 and sn 14201/14048 and the other pair also type 6229 and sn 28034/28013.
i checked 1 woofer (all 4 look the same) and this is an AD1056/W8 (completely covered with white powder btw, aluminum oxide ??)
i checked all filters, all the same but very different from the data shown in this thread: the woofer cap is 75 uF, other caps: 20 uF, 2,5 parrallel with 1 uF so 3,5 uF and no resistors on the woofer but on the tweeter end one of 8,2 ohm and caps of 3,5 uF (again 2 parallel as above) and 8 uF.
another funny thing: the 14xxxpair (most likely sold as a pair) has one with normal metric screws used for mounting the spekaer units, the other one all philips type "woodscrew" (hoe do you call that...not normal thread anyway).
and i was wondering why they are so heavy...well: turns out they have an inner cabinet of proper wood and (probably) an outer cabinet of chipboard' making the cabinet sides and back around 22 mm thick.
what i notice on TS pics is the difference in the center magnet of the woofer: you can see one has some round kind of hole in the magnet, the other a square, my pair has the same thing.
i suppose this was just a result of the factory making the magnets (coming from different machines or something).
if anyone has to add something, feel free: i always think it is interesting with htese older products to see the variations compared to the nowadays 100.000 copy/paste products :)
Hi,
I have a pair of 5700's which I want to sell. However, it seems like a tweeter isn't working properly in one speaker. Otherwise they're fine (apart from cosmetic things like cup rings on the top of the cabinet). I just don't have the space for them and I'd like to sell them to someone who would be interested in fixing them up or salvaging parts if they prefer, and I'm wondering what sort of price I should charge? I'm not really up for attempting to fix them myself, I don't have the knowhow and I'd probably make them worse! I'd just like to sell 'em and use the money to get some bookshelf speakers.
Someone has offered me £50 which I feel is a bit low, but I really don't know. So, any advice on what to charge would be great. Thanks!
For crossover capacitors, I always use Solen Fast Capacitors 400V PB.
Ships from Montreal area in Canada, excellent pricing.
Menahem
Dillen: Beovox 5700 came in two different versions, Type 6229 and Type 6253.The main difference is the midrange driver and the crossover filter was changed accordingly.(Beovox 5702 is Type 6251) Furthermore, two different woofers were used in Beovox 5700Is your woofer a Philips AD10100/W8 or a Norelco AD1056/W8 ? Martin
Hi, I'm also interested in these beovox speakers, do you know if the norelco speaker was mounted in 6229 or 6253 version? From what I found on the internet, the Norelco AD1056 / W8 speaker was made of an alnico magnet when Philips AD10100 / W8 has a ceramic magnet. Which one do you think is the better version?
Piotr
Lomax: Dillen:Beovox 5700 came in two different versions, Type 6229 and Type 6253. Ah yes, I see what you mean now. Mine are the (earlier?) type 6229. Dillen:Is your woofer a Philips AD10100/W8 or a Norelco AD1056/W8 ? Don't know, as I haven't actually got the speakers yet - I expect them to arrive later this week though!
Do you know which woofer you had in 6229 beovox version? Thanks!