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Beomaster 3000 type2402 dead radio

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Christian Christensen
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Christian Christensen Posted: Wed, Sep 24 2014 11:30 PM

Low signal stregth on the meter to max value 1.
lred light indicator for radio lid up when there is supposed to be a radio station
No radio sound 

It is dedecting something.

Because  stregnth value meter is fed by  the If transistor stages BF194, I suppose the faulty thing is before they strength meter

I have done DC massurement on the 4 If transsitors BF194 and they seem fine, as well as the Ic circut 3012, nice values.
( if 10% is okey )

powersupply give nice 15 volt. to the PCB board. 

Next thing will  be to check DC levels in the tuner shieded input module.

Anyone with some tips ? 

Christian 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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I have checked DC levels on all power supplies.

Verified that there is a carry wave ( dont know the english word for it ) out of the Tr8
( dont know how to check the wave on the earlier stages, as I dont know how to get rid of the DC offset in my stupid windows software osciloscope )

Checked that all DC values on Tr1 to Tr8, including the 3012 IC  they seems fine

The Meter was just an adjustment issue, so I am now looking futher in...

Back to looking at the schematics and messuring values.

Tips , appreciated. 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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I might be on a trace.

There is no 38 Khz on Tr21, and no 19 Khz on Tr 20 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Mon, Sep 29 2014 6:24 AM

That's because the receiver is tuned to a station that doesn't transmit the MPX pilot, no station at all or
reception is too weak.

Martin

Christian Christensen
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Hello Martin, thanks for jumping in here

.I have two opened BM3000 sitting side by side , tuned into same station, to compare messuerments

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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So, one is fully working , the opther is the one with no sound from the radio

Both are tuned into P2, with classical music,
Scale put on 96 M;Hz and adjusted with the meter , so yes there is MPX signal on that station, verified by the working BM3000

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Mon, Sep 29 2014 12:58 PM

The BF194 transistors are known to go weak.

Martin 

Christian Christensen
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Changed first TR19, as that is the last one backwards in chain, that I couldnt measue so low volt singnals on my software osciliscope. , no change.

So then to Martins advice, replaced Tr 1to 4. the BF194

Something happened,  the strenght indcator behaved  very differently, and adjusting no-signal to signal the trims ended up at exactly at the same place as the working BM3000s trims.

But still no sound through radio,
I have tried feeding signal directly from the output of Tr23 and Tr24 to an external amp to see if there is anything audiable, but no

ideas from someone  ?

Damn I need a better osciloscope, what are you using guys ?

Tomorrow back to measuring again, after the re-trans

C

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Wed, Oct 1 2014 2:35 PM

Can you tell (with a scope) if there's any AF signal on the tuner outputs ?

Martin

Christian Christensen
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No signal on the tuner output, just noise

With oscilocope in auto, it goes to highest resolution 50mV/scale gives just radom noise close to midpoint 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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Was tired last night when I wrote.

BF194 is what I replced, that is not tr1-4 they are Tr5-8

Didnt get so much Beoing time tonight.

The collector on Tr8  that feed the filter and next module shows weird result on the oscilocope, even though I replaced that transistor.
Halfcut waves

Have to do some verifications of this, tomorrow.

Thanks so much for helping me a bit in this case Martin ! 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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Tonights result

My replacement TR8 transitor 2N4401  behaved weird on the collector .
Changed back to one of the BF194, good then both machines showed same result on the osc.

Ok

Part chain.

TR8 Collector and emitor messured on the osciloscope  looks now the same on both the working and the failing BM3000

That means.

Tr8  emittor shows clear wave.
Tr8 collector shows steady DC ( must be somekind of AC there as it is the collector that feeds next stage, but I my crappy softwaare osciloscope cant meassure  anything else then DC on there on both machines ) 

This signal on the  collector feed the SF 10.7 filter  and then to next shielded module


The output on the shielded module I can measure on the working machine, here the signal has been demodualted, which makes me believe that the demodulation is in the shielded box.

So somewhere between the collector of Tr8 and the output of the the shielded module seems the problem 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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Just want to say that I am not an expert, I am just trying my best based on way to old knowledge, so help is appreciated.

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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The second shielded module, which I suspect is the demodulator seems to be the issue.

I have a steady wave into it

But no signl out of that module.  ( Signal that is messurable there on the working bm3000 )

Now it is getting tricky. 

This pcb board in monted in a way that it is impossible to messure under it. 

And the few point I can reach from the obove side is the output of the OP703, which seems to have so high output iimpedance that my osciloscope seems to load it down.

So I am in a point of guessing.....and my guess is the 703 circuit that is failing.

Seem hard to get these ICs from Europe, where I dont have to pay expensive freight and import fees. from.

Any comments ? Sad 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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So I need to find a 703 circuit, to evaluate my error tracking in the non-working BM3000

As I hadsome hours over this sunday night I wanted to verify my replacement transistor.

So I replaced the 4 BF194s in the radio input stage,  on the working BM3000 to the 2N4401

And what happened ?
It totally change the behaviour of the radio, to soo much better.
The receving was much more defined, and audio quality improved .

So Martins thesus about that the BF194 go bad, is something I deffinetly can verify.

So now, from my experience, I truely recommend replacing themm

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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I was right in my suspecion, based on my messurements

The error was in that shielded demodulation module.
I replaced the entire module and radio is working now. !! YIHAAAA

This means I can actually now  start refurb this BM3000 into nicer quality.

If I get time later I will replace the actually 703 IC on that module to see if is actually was it.
because of its mechanical contruction it was difficult to complete messurements

Aaaaanyway....stubborness works, damn it took long time
Eventually I will get faster with time


Christian 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Søren Mexico
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Christian Christensen:
Aaaaanyway....stubborness works, damn it took long time
Eventually I will get faster with time

Good job Christian, and dont get faster, you enjoy every moment of it, the longer the betterLaughingLaughing

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Dave Farr
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Dave Farr replied on Sun, Oct 12 2014 8:26 AM

Søren Mexico:
Good job Christian, and dont get faster, you enjoy every moment of it, the longer the betterLaughingLaughing

Is that what they tell you in the 'Zona Rosa' Soren?

Well done Christian.  Another good save.

Dave.

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