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Hi Guys,
What tracking weight are you using for an Axel rebuilt mmc2? its recommended to set it to 1.2g but it sounds much better at 1.7 to my ears. if I set it to 1.2g I seem to get distortion on really loud passages...
Any advice?
Thanks in advance,
Lee
Agree - they need a little more than the originals - mine was at about 1.5g. Best to adjust by ear.
Peter
same here, 1.5 gr.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Peter: Agree - they need a little more than the originals - mine was at about 1.5g. Best to adjust by ear.
No experience with these rebuilt MMC2s, yet (knock on wood that it's a while before I need a rebuild) but Peter is right on the money. Adjust by ear, no matter what the spec sheet says, if you're getting distortion, and upping the tracking a bit makes it go away, up the tracking force! Mistracking will definitely damage records, and quickly too!
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Also, verify the actual tracking weight with a gauge, not just by the mark on the turntable. It could be off.
sonavor: Also, verify the actual tracking weight with a gauge, not just by the mark on the turntable. It could be off.
Also a good idea, I don't really trust the little adjustment gauge on the B&O tonearm as much as I do a more traditional table/arm combo. Not that you should really trust any of them.
Jeff: sonavor: Also, verify the actual tracking weight with a gauge, not just by the mark on the turntable. It could be off. Also a good idea, I don't really trust the little adjustment gauge on the B&O tonearm as much as I do a more traditional table/arm combo. Not that you should really trust any of them.
I second these suggestions. One of my tonearms is adjusted to what says is nearly 3g (it is an old TT) but the actual weight on the needle is 2.0g on a digital (calibrated) jewellers/stylus balance. I've checked the cartridge/stylus today using a test record for mistracking and it's absiolutely perfect.
Dave.
How do you test/setup tracking force on a tangential B&O turntable to check if the slider gauge is correct?
Thanks
It depends on the type of tangential Beogram. On the BG8002 I have used a Shure gauge here (near the bottom of the page). With the BG4002 the table top is open so it is easier. Lately I have been using a digital scale and I have to remove the platter of the BG8002 in order to have enough room. I don't have a picture of that yet but will take one the next time I check it.
It breaks up on loud passages (especially in very loud parts of Tchaikovsky's Liturgy of St John) at 1.5g but sounds better at 1.7-1.8. I'm sure it used to sound alright at 1.2g. Axel told me to send it back to him. What could have caused this difference? I've just sent off for a stylus pressure guage and a 60x jewelers glass to have a look at it.
Yes, I have an 8002.
What's the procedure with the Shure?
My 8002 was recently overhauled and restored and I am yet to fire it up.
I got a brand new SMMC3 and was going to set force at 1.2g. How will I know if 1.2g isn't enough? What are the obvious symptoms of not enough tracking force? I've got some mint brand new vinyl and a bit apprehensive about playing them without checking if my tracking force is perfect. Id say it would all be ok, but better to check I think.
Do you think that at 1.2g it will damage my mint vinyl or worst case is just it won't sound as good if the factory tracking scale is out of spec?
Lee: It breaks up on loud passages (especially in very loud parts of Tchaikovsky's Liturgy of St John) at 1.5g but sounds better at 1.7-1.8. I'm sure it used to sound alright at 1.2g. Axel told me to send it back to him. What could have caused this difference? I've just sent off for a stylus pressure guage and a 60x jewelers glass to have a look at it.
You had no way of knowing what the actual force on the stylus was. Sending it back to Axel I would suggest is premature. As I previously described, without measuring the force, you cannot rely on what the tonearm scale is telling you. If it has just been calibrated, then that is different.
I use this stylus pressure gauge (it's actually a jewellers gauge) which can be calibrated with a 5g calibration weight prior to each use. I got it from 'Analogue Seduction' (www.analogueseduction.net) for £54.99 at the time I bought it.
Which gauge have you bought? Rebuilding a cartridge will change it's weight to a small degree. Did you have the same profile of diamond put on your cart by Axel or a different profile to the original? It will make some difference to trackability.
Another good thing to do is get a good trackability 'test record'. I used mine a few days ago to check my cartridge seen above it it was flawless at all levels and through all of the tests. Also checks the antiskating, phase of speakers, stereo seperation etc of your system.
Loud sections of music can be enough to bounce the stylus out of grooves on vinyl. A rebuild cartridge is not quite the same as the original B&O supplied cartridge. Use a gauge and your ears and don't take original printed figures as hard facts to be adhered to in this case. From his test data, Axel should be able to tell you the ideal 'actual' tracking weight for that cartridge.
Cooker: Yes, I have an 8002. What's the procedure with the Shure?
The procedure with the Shure is described in the instructions with the Shure product. It is just the balancing type gauge where you set the preset counter weight to the desired position (i.e. 1 gm), then let the tonearm lower onto the gauge and observe if the balance indicator on the gauge shows that it is level.
The digital gauges are easier to use but are a tight fit on the BG8002 so I have to remove the BG8002 platter. Here is a picture of using the digital gauge on the BG8002 with an MMC1 cartridge.
Cooker: I got a brand new SMMC3 and was going to set force at 1.2g. How will I know if 1.2g isn't enough? What are the obvious symptoms of not enough tracking force? I've got some mint brand new vinyl and a bit apprehensive about playing them without checking if my tracking force is perfect. Id say it would all be ok, but better to check I think. Do you think that at 1.2g it will damage my mint vinyl or worst case is just it won't sound as good if the factory tracking scale is out of spec?
The cartridges come with a recommended tracking weight. You don't have to use that weight precisely but you should use something close to it. Obviously, the less weight you can use, the better it will be for wear and tear on the record (and stylus). I wouldn't go below the recommended weight. If you have to apply too much weight over the recommended value, then that would be a sign something is wrong with the cartridge. When I refer to weight (or tracking force) I am talking about the actual measured force that a gauge provides, not the setting on the tonearm. As mentioned in the above thread, a rebuilt cartridge could alter the recommended value. But you have a new SMMC3 so Soundsmith should have provided a recommended tracking force for it.
Some good cartridges require higher tracking force though and even at those higher values, the vinyl record should be fine under normal playing conditions. A $1500 Grado Reference cartridge has a recommended tracking force of 1.5g. Dirt is a worse enemy so keeping the vinyl clean and the stylus clean is more of a concern than the tracking force. Also be aware that even mint records can have some debris on them from the manufacturing process.
How did you get the tone arm to lower and motor not to spin and how did you not damage the stylus when this happened?
With the top platter off, the turntable still operates. I just put the gauge in place and pressed the play button, then the fast forward button to position the stylus over the gauge. When the stylus is at the correct point on the gauge, I press play again so it will lower onto the gauge. That's it. The styus won't get damaged by lowering on to a clean, flat surface. All stylus gauges require lowering the stylus onto the gauge. Nothing is moving. It just measures the tracking force. After I get the measurement I press stop and the stylus raises and returns to the rest position.
Well I've received my Jewlers 60x glass and my stylus pressure gauge. The stylus looks perfect under magnification, nice and clean and no chips etc. And I've set it to 1.2g as per Axels instructions but it still isn't 100%..
How much does the temperature effect the trackability of MMCs? I'm sure it sounds better the warmer the room is....
Lee: Well I've received my Jewlers 60x glass and my stylus pressure gauge. The stylus looks perfect under magnification, nice and clean and no chips etc. And I've set it to 1.2g as per Axels instructions but it still isn't 100%.. How much does the temperature effect the trackability of MMCs? I'm sure it sounds better the warmer the room is.... Lee
I think you'll have to adjust the pressure in 0.1 increments until it sounds good to you. It has been said before that it isn't precise and a touch extra pressure isn't going to cause damage to your vinyl.
I'd be amazed if the temperature had much effect. The temperature at the stylus tip is very high - higher than ambient temperature already. I suspect the only effect of temperature would be on the vinyl itself as it will soften with increasing temperature.
uThe only thing I could figure that might be temperature sensitive is the suspension for the cantilever, I know they can stiffen with age. I would have thought though that the materials would be chosen to be relatively temperature insensitive, at least over normal home temperatures. I guess a replacement/remanufacture might have to use a different material which might be sensitive but you wouldn't think it should matter, it's a relatively narrow band of temps.
My MMC2 shibata, Axel recommended to 1.3 Gr. I have it on 1.4 Gr. on the scale on my TX2, I tried with 1.3 but it sound better on 1.4, So adjust it by ear, As for temp. changes, I have at the moment 17°C in my house, we have no heating or air condition (Mexico), in the summer we have up to 28-30°C, and I hear no differences.
After much experimentation I've concluded that temperature definitely affects the cartridges performance especially at tracking the higher frequencies. It sounds much better when the room is around 22-26 Celsius. I've read quite a few posts in various forums and it seems to be quite well know that MMCs don't like low temperatures. I even found some information from B&O that says they test the carts at 25C and to increase tracking force if your room is too cold.
Hi, this is clever, but how can you remove the platter ? I have a BG7000 and a BG4500 to test, and I don't understand how to remove the platters, and did not find any clue in the manuals either.
You're going to kick yourself..... the platter just lifts off.
If it hasn't been removed since build it is probably sticky?
Very carefully, try sliding a couple of dining table knives under the edge opposite themselves and gently lift the platter.
Ice-cream sticks of the flat type won't scratch.
Martin
But you don't need to take off the platter to use a tracking force guage on Beogram 4500 or 7000.In standby, place the tracking force guage under the stylus while it is in the parked position, press and hold >> (or is it >>, I don't remember) for a few seconds, and the needle will be lowered on to it.Press stop when done.
Oooh, thanks, it was so easy; I thought I had to remove the central disc before !
Perfect, this worked, but I had to remove the platter to easily place the gauge.
However, while my MMC5 is correctly set at 1,5g, the MMC2 which I adjusted at 1g is sounding fuzzy…
I had to set it up again at 1,7 g in order to have a correct sound. Tha's not normal, is it the characteristic of a worn / used stylus ?