ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
This is not a B&O question, but worthwhile to ask.
I have a Pickering (correct) cartridge on my Seeburg M100B jukebox that plays Side-A well but it terrible on Side-B. The sound quality can be truly awful until pressure is applied, then the sound quality is fine briefly.
I was certain it was the tonearm spring pressure that needed adjustment, but I discovered that the A-side stylus moves back and forth easily, but springs back to the center position. The B-side moves likewise BUT does not spring back to the center position. The stylus just stays wherever it is left.
Is it reasonable to believe that THIS is the problem rather than spring pressure?
Any advice would be most appreciated!
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Yes, if you have a correct sound on the A side, and pickup acts in a certain way there, and the sound is bad on the B side, and the pickup or arm does not behave in the same way there, you have a failure on the B side,
I am not familiar with the Seeburg, but I think they are playing the record vertically, if that is right, for me the B side not coming back sounds to be right, and I would presume the A side has the wrong "Antiskating" setting, but very hard tracking pressure.
I would also presume that the B side has the right "Antiskating" setting, but wrong tracking weight.
As I dont know the Seeburg, I dont even know if antiskating and tracking force are separately adjustable for A and B side. If not, you have another mechanical failure
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Hi Søren,
The seller of my Blackhead cartridge says the following: “Inside the cartridge is a tiny almost microscopic support wire for the needle. It has a very tiny solder connection that holds it in place and keeps the needle centred. When they begin to fail, the needle isn't centred and it skips across the record with intermittent sound. When the needle moves too far to one side, it connects with the cartridge body causing a ground and the sound is lost. This is a common problem with the blackheads.”
He says that my sound issue on the B-side is due to this fault, not the tension springs. And yes, the B-series Seeburg plays records vertically.
The seller goes on to say that it is an easy fix that he will do for me and he is a 30 minute seaplane ride away. He also says I’d be better off with a Redhead cartridge which has less problems, although lacks the full range of the older Blackhead.
Something to really consider.
Thanks for the input!
Hi Jeff
I dont know the quality or difference, between Black and Red head cartridges, but if i look at my Sinfonola, with a 5 gr. tracking weight, and the quality of my 45s, remember nothing comes out better than the source, my 45s are nearly all in, Good or Very Good shape, but that is not Very Good+ or Mint, so if your 45s collection is like mine, the Red Head may do it.
I am still going through my Sinfonola, end to end, electronics and mechanics. I have come to the conclusion that it has to be renamed to SIN fonola.
Does your Seeburg have 2 pickups, one for A and one for B side, or isit the same. If the same. why does it work on one side and not the other.
If you have to pay one hour seaplane ride dont do it, buy an Red Head.
Good luck with yours, not B&O, but we are not the only ones on the forum, saving these wonderful machines for the after world, or at least until they put us in the "never come back boxes"
The Redhead is the “preferred” cartridge as it is the newer of the two and can play stereo records. That said it is less sensitive and produces less volume than the older Blackhead, so with better records, the Blackhead has an advantage. (The Redhead is more “forgiving.”)
My 45’s are generally in very good to excellent shape. I have one record that is really warped, but the Seeburg handles it with no trouble.
The Seeburg 100 Selection mechanism uses a single Pickering cartridge with two styluses, one on opposing sides, which is why the properly working A-side plays fine, while the B-side is a disaster.
As to the seaplane, I wasn’t planning a trip; I was sending the tiny package freight. It costs about the same as the post office only it gets there today.
However than meant a grueling trek downtown.
Since I worked for years downtown I shouldn’t be all that surprised by the Kamikaze drivers, doped up kids shouting to the heavens while making rude gestures and leaping in front of the car with no thought to personal injury. I shouldn’t be, but was.
Get down to Harbour Air and the place is packed….. more rude, line cutting, loud people. Waited about 30 minutes for this harried and overworked woman to wait on me and wasn’t she all annoyed, “We don’t fly to Gibsons.” I asked ever so politely, “Are you sure, as I have sent this gentleman several packages.” The look of death followed in that I had the temerity to question her. “YES I am sure.” Crestfallen I left.
Back to the post office, but I missed the cut-off for X-press post by 10 minutes. Just wasn’t going to be my day.
I gave the Redhead a good deal of thought, but as I suspect my Blackhead will get fixed for free as I have only had it a few months….. and I know this gentleman, nice guy with good advice…..BUT he “likes” to make money and I am his “customer.” Hence the suggestion for a Redhead.
Yep, we are doing our best to save these wonderful machines for posterity, even some that are not B&O.
Loved your comment about SIN fonola….. very clever. Sorry it is giving you headaches.
I can’t BELIEVE that aggravation my Seeburg has given me with my being told multiple times I was WAY over my head (I was) and I needed expert help. Who would ever have thought that a 7 pin plug would have is center yoke missing, allowing a miss-match of pins….. and that followed by another 16 pin plug with 2 pins pushed back into the plug? Talk about odd.
AND after the hours and hours I have put into the spring pressure trying to “fix” B-side play, for it to turn out to be the stylus lost its spring?
Boy will I be happy to get it back together, press the keys and have the Seeburg play the record with no drama, no aggravation, and no trouble.
OI wish you the same with you Sinfonola!
I just came along this post...
I have a 100c, originally equipped with a blackhead. But it was broken as yours (got it about 35 years ago) and so I got a redhead from a local jukebox-rental. The technician there told me, the blackhead is not suitable for stereo records. The needle can only move sideways with ease, up-down needs "strong" force (stereo combines both directions). The redhead has angled needles and can follow ups and downs (stereo) better. I found a picture which shows the inside of a blackhead, where you can see the wide feather (the needle for that side is at the opposite) which centers the cantilever in the middle of the big coil and which can break very easily. And when it's broken like yours, the needle will stick to one side and has low sound.
http://www.hupse.eu/radio/reproducers/PickeringBlack.htm
Nevertheless I try to fix these flat wide springs inside the blackhead, just to make it original again. Maybe I can use contacts of a relay or something...
Chris
Hi Chris,
I have a Seeburg M100B, which is the clone of the M100C. It originally came with a Blackhead and as my replacement cartridge produced almost no bass, when I purchased my Blackhead (I had a choice with a Redhead), I elected to go for the more robust Blackhead.
In overall sound quality, I probably made the right choice as this Blackhead (now repaired by the seller) produced a wonderful sound.
That said it just murders stereo records for the reason you mentioned. And as about half my current selection of 45’s are stereo, perhaps I should have gone for the Redhead after all.
There are stereo needles made for the Redhead, by the way. It is still a mono amplifier, so no stereo sound, but the pickup becomes total.
P.S. I LOVE my M100B which I have owned for just over 30 years….. a longtime relationship.