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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi All,
I'm new to this so please bear with me if I ask a few novice questions. My Dad and I are about to embark on a restoration of a Beogram 1200...I've always loved the design and recall great sound when I was a kid.
I've spent a bit of time reading the existing work many of you have done in this space, so thanks in advance for the knowledge you've already armed me with.
For now, I'd appreciate your insights into a few questions :
1) Is it ok to use sewing machine oil to lubricate bearings, or should I use Kontakt Chemie lub oil 88?
2) What grease should I use on gears, metal arms that move etc? I haven't seen anything specific about what grease to use, like whether it needs to tolerate heat and so on.
3) I'm going to use a donor motor from a defunct 1202 that I was given...the motor spins after the previous owner used sewing machine oil...he never took it apart though. If it's spinning, do I need to still disassemble and regrease? Or even, shouldI skip the 1200 resto and rather try to resuscitate the 1202? The 1202 has a bent tonearm, and I gather this is complex to change over.
4) if the cartridge is gone, can I substitute an SP 10 in this kit?
I'm based in South Africa so there's not much ships out here from the ebay's of the world for spares.
Many thanks in advance for your help!
Welcome to Beoworld.
As nobody has answered yet, I wil try - at least I can answer 2 of your questions.
1) Yes - you can use sewing machine oil.
4) As far as I recall, you can use both SP10, SP12 and SP14 cartridges.
Kind regardsSteffen
As Steffen says, sewing machine oil, and use silicone grease. If the motor is turning lightly, it should be OK.
SP10,12,14 are OK
If you want to use the 1202 instead, and change the tonearm (are they exactly the same).
If you are a little handy with a solder iron, unsolder the small wires coming out of the tonearm shaft onto the PCB. make notes where the wires goes, the colors should be the same in the 2 BG types. Then loosen the Allen screw, shown in the pic and lift up and off, the tonearm, taking care the the wires comes out without damage. Place the new tonearm exactly where the old one was, solder back the wires, and you are ready to go. Check the set down points.
On the 1202 as on the 1200 I recommend to take the drive mechanism apart and clean and oil it. I f you will need a new belt you will have to get it from Axel in Germany.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Thanks Steffen,Soren,
I have decided to focus on the 1200 as the 1202 has too many cosmetic challenges to make it worthwhile.Do either of you know whether the 1200 and 1202 belts are the same? I presume that they should be...the 1202 has a good serviceable belt, whereas the 1200 has nothing...not even fragments to compare.
Soren - do you perhaps know if the mechanics in these two are similar enough that I would be able to work from your 50hz -> 60hz conversion thread?
Thanks again for your help and insight
I have never seen a BG1200 in the flesh, but as you have both, take off the bottom cover of the 1200 and take a good picture and post it here. And I dont know if the belts are the same, but try it out, if the belt has the same tension on both decks it should work OK.
Apart from the pic mentioned above, post more pics, upside complete, upside without platter, detail pic of the motor and drive mechanism and detail of the tonearm mechanism from below, this will give us a better change of helping you if needed
Thanks Soren,
I have started work - will post pictures on the weekend. In the meantime, I have two quick questions. I've stripped the bearings for the motor, and need advice on the felt that sits in the bearing. Should this be soaked with sewing machine oil, or are a few spots of oil sufficient? The felts are also really hard - should I try and find replacements?
Many thanks,
Ryan
Quick update...
Stripped the motor and idler assembly, cleaned and oiled everything, replaced the belt. Hooked everything up and the old girl spun up to speed straight away, showing us her best tunes for a couple of hours until 30 minutes ago.
However, for no reason, the last lp had finished playing, and now she won't come to life again...any suggestions? The belt is still in place, looks fine - for some reason the motor's stopped spinning again.
Any help or advice appreciated - I'm feeling a bit bummed now as it was all going so well!
Does the motor get power ?, if yes did you align the rotor correctly
Hi Soren,
Yep - the motor has power. When I reassembled, the rotor spun very freely by hand in the bottom bearing...becomes slightly stiffer once the top plate holding the top bearing is on.
i removed everything again and the rotor was very tight, so re oiled the bottom bearing generously with a bit more sewing machine oil, and oiled the top again. It runs again now, but seems a little noisier than it was the first time. I took a lot of care positioning the rotor in the bottom bearing to make sure it spun freely. Should it spin as easily when the top bearing goes on?
The problem is the alignment of the rotor and the bronze bushings, take it apart again, using a strip of 400 grain sand paper, rolled around a small shaft or screwdriver, rotate the sandpaper inside the bushings until clean, then clean carefully with IPA, oil again.
When assembling you will have to center the rotor. Insert acetate strips through the openings in the bottom cover, 3-4 strips, ad strips, until you have the same contact all around, pulling and pushing the strips with a light resistance.
Do not overdo the sanding. Do you have a manual ?
And we love pics
The motor area before disassembly
Bottom bearing opened up for cleaning and new oil. The felt was rock hard.
Cleaned pulley wheel, but plate still needs a rub down to remove dirt
Nice pics, clean the bushing inside with 400 grain sanding paper as described above (red arrow) there must be a bushing on the other side of rotor too. Clean the felt, let dry and ad oil to it
Attach motor cover, tighten screws very lightly, Insert 10 mm wide acetate strips at red arrows, ad acetate strips until you feel contact to both rotor and stator. same amont of acetate strips in all 4 places, when OK tighten screws, and check again.
The 1200 is quite different from the 1202
Will sanding the bronze bush not destroy the sintered coating? Also, I didn't think to do that yesterday as I thought it might create too much play for the rotor shaft? Happy to try it though as I have a second motor that I could use from the 1202.
How do you suggest cleaning the felt? I put lots of oil on the felts yesterday because I thought they might draw lubricant out from the bush? Is it right to soak them in oil, or should they be just lightly oiled?
Will go get some acetate the weekend to get the rotor centered. How freely should it spin by hand once the motor is reassembled...same sort of gliding spin with no resistance that I felt when I had it only in the bottom bearing?
Sorry for all the questions - I want to make sure I get it right. And thanks again for all your help - I really appreciate it.
Thank you everyone for your help so far...check out my youtube link to the 1200 up n running.
http://youtu.be/QWente_XpBI
My next challenge is that the tonearm moves out automatically, but drops a few mm too early and slides off the edge of the album. Any advice on how to correct this problem/adjust the point where the tonearm mechanism lowers down?
Sintered bronze has small holes in it, these holes are full of hardened oil, and the bushing dirty with hardened oil on the surface, so no more space for oil, the oil gets pressed out of the bushing, and it runs dry, Sanding it roughens up and cleans the surface, and there is again space for the oil to stay in. I have been using 200 grain, when 400 grain was not available, and no problems. My 1202 is running OK since 2 years I think. The felt I let soak over night in IPA then press out the IPA, then soak in soapy water and press dry more times until it is soft again, then ad oil until full, but not dripping. Here again we have to do with old hard oil, the felt has to function as a sponge.
The rotor shall spin freely, just sensing the magnetic draw in it.
You should get yourself a manual, available for silver and gold members. Here the set down point adjustment (from the manual)