ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Linn released a new audio system comprising new streamer and digital speaker set-up last year, Linn Exakt, 10 years after B&O released the Beolab 5 in 2003. There are a striking number of similarities: digital feed to speakers, individual DACs, each speaker is calibrated and optimised for variation, DSP is applied to the individual drive units, digital crossovers to indivdual amps coupled to their drive units and room adaptation (in B&O's case in the bass by a microphone, whereas in Linn's case extrapolated from predetermined and measured values in an algorithm).
http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/technology/exakt/what-it-can-do
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Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
B&O started making 'active speakers' way back in the 80'es, if you count the BeoLab Penta's in.
The first 'clever' active speaker - I think - was the BeoLab 2500 from 1991.
Most of the newcomers in the 'active speakers scene' seem to forget, that B&O over the years have accumulated an immense expertice in this field.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
seethroughyou: Linn released a new audio system comprising new streamer and digital speaker set-up last year, Linn Exakt, 10 years after B&O released the Beolab 5 in 2003. There are a striking number of similarities: digital feed to speakers, individual DACs, each speaker is calibrated and optimised for variation, DSP is applied to the individual drive units, digital crossovers to indivdual amps coupled to their drive units and room adaptation (in B&O's case in the bass by a microphone, whereas in Linn's case extrapolated from predetermined and measured values in an algorithm). http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/technology/exakt/what-it-can-do
I described the Linn session we attended where this was demonstrated.
The speakers were fabulous - some what more expensive that the BL5s ... and needing a much more expensive player !!
They sound beautiful ... BUT ... were very directional ... just standing up from the listening position ruined the experience.
See the thread on LINN SESSIONS
BeoNut since '75
Struggling to find your write-up. Could you post the link? I'd be keen to read it!
Millemissen: B&O started making 'active speakers' way back in the 80'es, if you count the BeoLab Penta's in. The first 'clever' active speaker - I think - was the BeoLab 2500 from 1991. Most of the newcomers in the 'active speakers scene' seem to forget, that B&O over the years have accumulated an immense expertice in this field. MM
I believe B&O could have sold shiploads of speakers if the company had communicated what active speakers are - a lot of people don't know, including many of those who own such speakers from B&O.
Seriously, a lot of people do not know that with B&O, the amplifier is in the speaker, and the playback unit only provides a line signal (which they also don't know what is.)
Why do I mention this? Because those shiploads of speakers would have been sold to customers who want an elegant and sonically excellent speaker to connect to their computers, laptops, mobile units, etc - with as little fuss as possible.In another thread, I mentioned that I landed a pair of BeoLab 4000s for nothing, from a seller who was getting rid of them because he wanted something he could connect directly to his laptop ... They were in perfect condition, and the generation with the On/Off switch on the speakers, which is perfect for my use. Must confess, I didn't tell him what he could do with his speakers, with ease ...
Linn have been making activ setups for years,well before B&o.I have a linn exakt system and b&0 also.
Like I have stated in previous posts I love B&o products,but when it comes to pure music reproduction a linn system is streets ahead at any price level,all they focus on from r&d to production is to produce the best music systems ,were as B&o have tvs etc aswell.
The lab 5s are good at what they do,but are let done by the dacs and sources etc.A studio master streamed through my akubariks sounds sublime,and I have had lab 5s for 1 month demo and wanting them to sound better,but to my ears, they never.
I have also demoed the meridian range of dsp speakers 7200 and 8000 which sound good, but still not as good as the exakt system,it really has to be heard to believe how good it is.
linn pioneered the streamers with their cutting edge ds systems ,and were one of the first to drop CD players etc.They also hand build them in my native Scotland and have a royal warrant, also like B&o they make a one make system from source to speakers.
I am not a geeky audiophile that listens to equipment and changes cables,conditioners etc.I just love to listen to music in its purest form and my B&o and linn systems produce it for me.
If B&o produced a system that was better I would buy it in an instant.
Also meridian invented the first digital active speaker back in 1989 14 years before lab 5s.
Also meridian invented the first digital active speaker with dsp way back in 1989 14 years befor lab 5.
B&O and Linn (and Meridian) pursue different 'sound philosophies'.
Seems that you are preferring 'the Linn-way'.
Others might prefer how B&O 'does sound' - in particular because they don't only use the loudspeakers for 'heavy sweetspot' listening to music.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:When do Linns range of TVs, AirPlay speakers and headphones arrive?
I honestly believe Linn customers aren't waiting for either, they are in a different market segment.
Ban boring signatures!
That was exactly my point!
Like I said Chris,linn only focus on music systems,were as B&o focus on other segments also.
I know a lot of linn owners do have beovisions,as they believe they produce the best true to source image and sound quality of a tv.The same reason they choose a linn music system.
I am a friend of peter Tyson's who are linn and B&o dealers,they can have any system they want at home,and they all have beovisions and linn audio setups.We have compared all the beolab range back to back with linn activ speaker setups in the same home environment,and agreed the old linn sound is like the old beolab sound warm and richer,were as the new beolab sound ie alt speakers and linns new sound sounds more clinical and sharper,this is also due to musical tastes changing over the years aswell.
soundproof: Millemissen: B&O started making 'active speakers' way back in the 80'es, if you count the BeoLab Penta's in. The first 'clever' active speaker - I think - was the BeoLab 2500 from 1991. Most of the newcomers in the 'active speakers scene' seem to forget, that B&O over the years have accumulated an immense expertice in this field. MM I believe B&O could have sold shiploads of speakers if the company had communicated what active speakers are - a lot of people don't know, including many of those who own such speakers from B&O. Seriously, a lot of people do not know that with B&O, the amplifier is in the speaker, and the playback unit only provides a line signal (which they also don't know what is.) Why do I mention this? Because those shiploads of speakers would have been sold to customers who want an elegant and sonically excellent speaker to connect to their computers, laptops, mobile units, etc - with as little fuss as possible.In another thread, I mentioned that I landed a pair of BeoLab 4000s for nothing, from a seller who was getting rid of them because he wanted something he could connect directly to his laptop ... They were in perfect condition, and the generation with the On/Off switch on the speakers, which is perfect for my use. Must confess, I didn't tell him what he could do with his speakers, with ease ...
I also think it would have been beneficial if B & O did not have a special cable system that almost requires using B & O for the sound source. I don't know many audiophiles who have only one brand for all of their audio equipment.
Given that B & O does have their special cable requirements for their speakers, I think they should also make an active adapter. This adapter would take the signals from the preamp outputs, adjust the output signal for BeoLab 5 and other speakers, turn them on when the preamp is on, and allow the BeoLab speakers to be hooked up with the Power LInk cables.
If I hadn't done lots of reading about the advantages of BeoLab (and active) speakers, I probably wouldn't have taken the plunge given that I don't want to use a B & O sound source.
D
seethroughyou:Struggling to find your write-up. Could you post the link? I'd be keen to read it!
Chris Townsend:When do Linns range of TVs, AirPlay speakers and headphones arrive? Beovision 7-55 Mk2, 2xBeovision 8-32, Avant RF 28, beolab 8000, Beoplay A9, Beolit 12, Beocom 2, Beotime, H6, Form 2.
elephant: seethroughyou: Struggling to find your write-up. Could you post the link? I'd be keen to read it! I would love to but I think I have just found a bug in the beoworld App! I was very polite in the record of our experience (rather than a true review). The LINN expert was good however he made much of the fact that they do not use microphones - and the audience of audiophiles attacked him !! Poor guy was clearly uncomfortable at sticking politely to the party line in the face of such an onslaught. My wife's summation was that she thought the audiophiles were incredibly rude. However in the sweet spot to sound was incredibly pure. But too finicky for my casual approach and with need for one of their sources ... Way out of my league !
seethroughyou: Struggling to find your write-up. Could you post the link? I'd be keen to read it!
I would love to but I think I have just found a bug in the beoworld App!
I was very polite in the record of our experience (rather than a true review).
The LINN expert was good however he made much of the fact that they do not use microphones - and the audience of audiophiles attacked him !!
Poor guy was clearly uncomfortable at sticking politely to the party line in the face of such an onslaught.
My wife's summation was that she thought the audiophiles were incredibly rude.
However in the sweet spot to sound was incredibly pure.
But too finicky for my casual approach and with need for one of their sources ... Way out of my league !
@user="seethroughyou"
Trusty laptop to the rescue ... here is one link ... still looking for the other !
http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/9894.aspx
Bingo! A very informative and diplomatic post. Wish we had alot more of this on these forums ;)
Also Chris,why would a company that puts music first,bring AirPlay speakers to the market,with downgraded sound quality,they invest thir resources wisely ie own record label etc.Listen to a low res album streamed through AirPlay,then listen to a linn records studio master streamed,you will then know why they don't waste their time with AirPlay.
Its 2014 and due to Apple etc generation we have stepped back in sound quality,mp3s and itunes don't even compare sound wise to a good recorded cd from 20 years ago.It does not matter how much you spend on your speakers etc if you lose information at the start of the chain,you will not regain it at the end.
elephant: And distribution channel - including FLAC HD downloads ?
butch1:Also Chris,why would a company that puts music first,bring AirPlay speakers to the market,with downgraded sound quality,they invest thir resources wisely ie own record label etc.Listen to a low res album streamed through AirPlay,then listen to a linn records studio master streamed,you will then know why they don't waste their time with AirPlay. Its 2014 and due to Apple etc generation we have stepped back in sound quality,mp3s and itunes don't even compare sound wise to a good recorded cd from 20 years ago.It does not matter how much you spend on your speakers etc if you lose information at the start of the chain,you will not regain it at the end.
Spotify will soon launch in Flac lossless as will Deezer Elite, which will apparently be exclusive to Sonos. A bit odd considering the moment will be using Deezer!
I'm not sure how many Linn has in its file, but Deezer currently has 30 million, and Spotify 20 million. Then add what Apple is doing with Beats, and it can only be a matter of time.
And B&O aren't alone either....
http://www.audioplus.org.uk/naim/introducing-muso-by-naim/
mawheele: Airplay is just a transport protocol. The sound quality is driven by the music file. AirPlay is extremely simple and convenient, so why bash it? Nothing to beat it currently.
Airplay is just a transport protocol. The sound quality is driven by the music file.
AirPlay is extremely simple and convenient, so why bash it? Nothing to beat it currently.
You are right about that.
But AirPlay is tranmitting everything at 16/44.1 (/48 over ATV), which means that a higher resolution is converted to that resolution.
And high/higher resolution all the way through is what audiophiles and companies like Linn are interested in.
@Chris
I have read about Deezer Elite, but not about Spotify launching a lossless streaming service.
Could you provide more information about this?
Probably the same month as B&O introduce a new Beogram...
As the future is high res music streaming ,and linn was pioneering this years ago.They have just released a akudorik active exakt speaker stand ,which in the coming months will turn any passive stand mount speaker,from other manufacturers into a linn digital active exakt system.
Like I said to Chris streaming through AirPlay is cd quality at best,not any better and believe me there is a difference in sound.
Well,
i own Beolab 5's and Linn Klimax amps/preamps and DS with Dynaudio Confidence 4 for some time now. And i like both very much. But if i had to choose one system, i'd go with the Beolab 5 + Source any day!
The reason is simple: With the Linn kit, i get excellent results when carefully selecting music(files), taking care of room issues and finding THE perfect position for my listening chair.
But as i don't want to limit myself to the very limited music catalogue of Linn Music or other strictly audiophile material from Stockfish etc. pp ... i do much prefer the "no brainer" option with the Beolab 5''s most of the time. I can throw nearly anything at these, without getting annoying results. I may loose a something in stage depth, fine dynamics and resolution, but it is not worlds apart.
With the Akubarik Exact ifound it even more extreme. I attended a Listening Lounge event at my Linn dealer, where they have chosen "The Clash" for demo. Man, that was painful. Later on we tried to play other music taken from "normal" sources in CD quality. The really good recordings worked well, but most of the other real life music, that i use to listen to, simply did not come out well. Try to listen to any Prince album with an Exact system and you might get the impression.
For me, the Beolab 5's are the 911 in audio equipment ... usable under all circumstances, everyday ... the Exact system was more like a Ferrari, suitable and best for a perfectly sunny day on perfectly even tarmqc.
I did exactly that, when having the Beolab 5's fed by the Klimax DS/1. I had the Klimax DS set to fixed level and used the Spdif connection of the Beolabs. In addition to that, my dealer did something with the power signal ... i think he switched it to another voltage, so that the Beolabs started or recognized when the Klimax DS was turned on. As a result, some highres material sounded more brilliant, sharper ... but also "colder" or more analytic to my ears.
After some time i decided to stay with the powerlink connection and kept feeding the Labs via BV 7-55 and Beosound 5 and/or Beosound 9000. And even going digital from BS9000 into the Labs wasn't always better to my ears.
But still ... the Beolab 5 is a wonderful speaker to live with, if you are mainly listening to normally recorded music. I have older CD's for example, that were recorded with decent equipment at their time and they just sound exquisit, compared to many highres-files i bought. My conclusion from this is, that it seems to be much more a question of recording equipmemt and knowledge, rather then it is about data resolution.
Before christmas time, some friends and me are planning to have a comparative blind audition im my house ... one of them will bring a pair of Grimm LS1 with bass module, and the other guy pulls a Avantgarde Acoustic Zero 1 ... source will be a Linn KDSM, which is a real weappon in my opinion.
Hi rookie I have other beolabs in the house fed by linn dsm players.I also had klimax ds/1 Kontrol solos and 242s which I replaced with exakt setup ,my dad has lab 5s and wanted to like them,but they don't compare to my ears.Poor recordings sound bad on either speaker inc the 5s.
seethroughyou: why on earth does it cost £16,000?