Beogram 5000 distorting / skipping on new 180g records

Good evening Beopeople,

For the last year or so, I've been having problems with my Beogram 5000 and new 180g records.  I'm using an SMMC 4 (which is getting up there in hours, by the way).

Many new records play fine, but I'm finding more and more of our newer records (mostly, if not exclusively 180g) distort or skip / jump.  It's becoming unbearable.

I swapped out my MMC 4 last year as it was sounding pretty ragged, and I've been meaning to ship it off to Axel for a rebuild, but haven't gotten around to it yet as the SMMC 4 had been serving us well.

The catch is that older records play fine, but the newer heavier vinyl is a crap shoot.  I'm hesitant to think it's the SMMC 4.   I read another forum post saying to replace the drive belt, but that was for a tangential Beogram, and the 5000 is radial.  Might this still be a solution for me?  If so, how much is it to order one from Dillen?

Any other insights on what my problem / solution may be?

I've been thinking about a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon . . .  :(

 

Mike

I have similar experiences from my various MMCx-equipped Beograms (last and 2nd last generations) - older LPs/12"s sound great, but many records from the 2000s (mostly heavyweight vinyl ones) sound distorted. When played on my Project/Grado turntable (that I use for ripping only), the same records sound great.

No solutions from me, Im afraid. I just wanted to show that you're not alone.

What do you mean by distortion? Have you got the tracking force set correctly? And is the stylus clean?

Lee

Just to add to that.. I've got a project debut carbon and it sounds naff next to my beogram 5005.

Yes, the tracking is set correctly (though I've played with it to see if it would fix anything) and everything is spotless.  The turntable itself got a full overhaul by B&O Toronto a few years ago.

As for the issue, it's more the skipping / jumping the groove that seems to be the problem more so than the distortion.  The distortion heard is just a plain nastiness on the top and bottom end.  It's not the records either, as I've taken some of the problem records to a friends place with an extremely cheap Sony turntable, and the records play fine there.  MUCH to my dismay...

 

:(

Mike

Canadian here, so naff . . .  Is that a good or bad thing? :)

 

If its jumping out of the grooves that suggests that something is seriously wrong... Are you 100% sure you have the weight set correctly? It needs to be 1.4 grams possibly upto 1.5g. You should check it with a tracking force gauge to be sure. Also these cartridges can suffer from a faulty suspension... Does the needle and cantilever exit the cartridge perfectly straight? Can you post a picture of it?

Lee

Lee:

If its jumping out of the grooves that suggests that something is seriously wrong... Are you 100% sure you have the weight set correctly? It needs to be 1.4 grams possibly upto 1.5g. You should check it with a tracking force gauge to be sure. Also these cartridges can suffer from a faulty suspension... Does the needle and cantilever exit the cartridge perfectly straight? Can you post a picture of it?

Lee

I guess it's really just skipping, not seriously jumping the groove.  I'll try to post a picture and perhaps a video of it tomorrow. The needle and cantilever look to be perfectly fine (I have a failed suspension on one of my MMC4's, so I know what that looks like), and like I said it performs wonderfully on older records - no issues at all.  If 180g records are to heavy for the 5000, I'll have to look at getting another turntable, but if there's something I can do to fix it, I'd like to try that first.

 

Mike

Yes please post a video so we can see what is actually happening. I suspect that you've got a damaged stylus to be honest. The Beogram 5000 should have no problem whatsoever playing 180g vinyl... It's actually a better built deck than my 5005 and that plays 180g and 200g vinyl without issue. 

 

I have here a BG 5000, I can play all types of records on it, new 180 gr. old very light ones, new light ones, older 45s and no problems what so ever, I even have an original MMC4, it came with a BG 2404 I have had for years. I just tested the BG 5000 with that MMC4, no problems what so ever, I normally use a SMMC4 on my BG 5000.

I suggest you give your BG 5000 some TLC, clean and lubricate, and check adjustments.

If the record is skipping then it is technically jumping the groove... The cartridge could look fine and still be suffering from suspension problems. The rubber inside can become hardened and this will prevent proper cantilever compliance which could theoretically cause the record to skip. 

What I don't understand is how it would play old records correctly but not new ones.... 

Can you tell us exactly what you do to set the tracking force? I'm convinced if the stylus and cartridge are in good shape this can be the only cause...

Also out of interest, what's the name of the records you're having trouble with?

Lee

Just wanted to chime in that I have never had this problem with an MMC4 and a radial B&O, in my case multiple RX2's. In fact the one the would-be burglar threw on the floor was finally set right over the weekend and played the 180 gram reissue of LZ IV just fine.

And to answer a question from before: naff is not good. In plain terms Lee's opinion is the B&O is clearly superior to the Pro-ject.

Jacques had an issue earlier in the year with an MMC and distortion. I don't think he ever figured out the issue he had. Sometimes with complicated systems it's an interaction of multiple minor issues that cannot be isolated.

I had the same problem with my 4002 and MMC20CL. After a retyping by Axel, no more problem ;).

For sure, these records could detect early suspension problems (in my view).

 

Lee:

Yes please post a video so we can see what is actually happening. I suspect that you've got a damaged stylus to be honest. The Beogram 5000 should have no problem whatsoever playing 180g vinyl... It's actually a better built deck than my 5005 and that plays 180g and 200g vinyl without issue. 

 

Hello fellahs,

So sorry it took so long to respond.  Had to find time to take pics and a video. 

Please take a look at the pics below, and the link to the video.  If anything looks to be out of sorts, please let me know:

Video: http://youtu.be/gzcTsEKrAF0

Here a pic from my SMMC4

And here a clean needle

Have you set the anti skating? I'm pretty sure underneath the Beogram there is an adjustment for skating.

Check service manual and it explains how to set.

Has the tone arm been calibrated recently?  The 1.4g you're dialing in could easily net out to be closer to 1.0g - too light (tho some records might play ok at a light tracking force).