ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Beovision 7 40 mk 5 ,beovision 6x3, beosound 3000, beogram 3300 , 2 x lc2, 2 x beocom 1401, beocom 6000 x 2, 5 x beo4,
, 4 x beolab 4's, form 2, h2, a2,a1 and a beolab 2 😀😀
Retipped MMC by Axel seems to win the day by general consensus in the past. The cartridges I have by Axel are superb. I also believe it's a more comprehensive service and more options may be available via Axel - different cantilever materials, different profiles etc.
It may also be cheaper as he can upgrade any MMC cartridge to any level 1 through 5. Which MMC do you have and is the cantilever OK?
I'm sure others will chip in with opinions.
Dave.
Having tried Soundsmith I would this time around try a retip at Axel in Germany to get some experience on his services. I got a MMC2 that is waiting to go.
http://www.schallplattennadeln.de/
Do some research here on Beoworld to check other members on what they think.
Then decide what you would like to do.
Soundsmith is good but expensive. A retip might do just as well.
This thread from last year shows a picture of some of my MMC cartridges repaired by three different cartridge repair shops. These were all just suspension repairs though, no retipping. However, you can still see and compare the results I have experience so far.
That said, I love my SMMC20EN! It is a very dynamic device that is very modern sounding... a bit like CD. My choice, then.
Jacques
I have an original MMC4, a MMC4 from Axel, a SMMC4, between the original and the one from Axel I hear no difference, the SMMC is more CD like (brighter), I prefer the original and the Axel sound. So its your choice really.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
having just bought an SMMC2 before xmas, and have about 50 hours on it, I am disappointed to say the least, I only bought it to prolong the life of my two MMC2's and one MMC1
somehow the Soundsmith carts are just too harsh, and not very analogue sounding to my 54 year old ears, thank god Axel is on hand to refurb and upgrade any of my other MMCx carts that I have stashed away for a rainy day, but I do worry that the suspension on most of them have by now capitulated, and some of them only one channel works (which I have heard Axel can sometimes fix in his workshop)
I am going to send some MMCx carts to Alex this year and opt for the Ruby cantilever option. Personally being in the UK, and supporting someone like Axel in the future so that he can continue to retip and replace cantilevers, and suspensions for all our MMCx carts is the right thing to do
are you in Europe/UK Bramble ?
magic, if you could update us re your MMC4 and how long it all takes with Axel to get it back from him, what it finally cost you and any other feedback, that would be great
I need to buy one of Soundsmith's SMMCx cartridges just to see what all the fuss is about. I have Peter's SMMC20EN on my BG4002 and it is fantastic. I also have an MMC3000 retipped by Peter at his entry level (from Soundsmith's web site: "$150 for Bonded Elliptical stylus") on a BG3404 and it is the mellowest cartridge I've ever heard. "Harsh and CD-like" couldn't be further from the reality.
However, neither of those Soundsmith experiences are with a new SMMCx. Some day, when I need a new cartridge....
The SMMC20EN is I believe an SMMC3 in a MMC20 type body. If you look at the back, you can see where the 4 pins are! Perfectly good cartridges but different from the originals. More modern materials and engineered for a different listening audience. I seem to remember Soundsmith saying they could make a cartridge sound like the older MMC range if someone wanted one.
Peter
So one sounds mellow and one sounds "CD" like? But what one sounds closer to what the original recording should sound like?
I havnt tried Axle yet and am curious as to what this "mellow" sound sounds like.
For me, the one that reproduces the record as close to the original recording is the one for me. But which one is that? Also without getting to carried away, unless you can listen to the master tapes how would you know?
Just from what I've read here, the B&O cartridge puts their own personal mellow sound mask on the music, which to me, unless the recording was mellow, this is altering the music?
For example some people like additional Salt on all their food regardless of 1st taste, so is the B&O cartridge similar, in that its putting additional "salt" on every record. Adding its own flavour????? Or does it sound mellow from age and when it was new it was sharp and "CD" like???
I spoke to Peter at Soundsmith about this and he basically told me that his cartridges are exact replicas of B&O but using modern materials. He said ofcourse they are going to sound differant, as original carts have deteriorated over 30+ years so how can you compare the sound? He did not mention to me that he can make a "mellow" sounding SMMC, only that he has some NOS original MMC2's rebuilt with new suspension for sale. Even those brand new MMC2's he has, failed testing straight out the brand new box which led him to rebuild all of them even though they are brand new. This was a few years ago as well. So now, any NOS MMC is pretty much guaranteed not to be 100% optimized anymore.
I guess we need a good working original MMC2 that tests out perfect (not likely), compared to Axles MMC2 and SoundSmiths SMMC2.
luckily I have a very low hours MMC2 that does not have any suspension problems and sounds perfect to my 16 year old daughter, and a 50 hours SMMC2
I can tell you that the B&O original MMC2 is a better all rounder than the SMMC2 on my Beogram 8002, whatever B&O did with these cartridges they got it pretty well sussed IMHO :-)
NB I do have another MMC2 that only has one channel working, and I will send this to Axel for a full repair and retip, when it comes back I will be in a position to test all 3 carts
Wow, wonderful.
Yes please do post up your results/findings after getting an Axle repair. I am very curious.
Its strange then that nobody outside the B&O world seems to mind the sound of the Soundsmith SMMC range and in fact they are all highly praised as the best carts in their price range. This is what led me to purchase one, but now I'm thinking of getting an Axle MMC2.
Does anyone have Axles direct email?
Oops double post
Found the email on his website.
Looking at his website, I see he offers the Top MMC (most expensive) as a Shibata tip and aluminum suspension?
Is this higher quality/sound then a factory spec MMC1? How come B&O went from alloy to sapphire cantilever in their higher spec carts but Axles highest spec cart has an alloy cantilever and his sapphire one is cheaper?
Just curious on how Axles highest spec cart sounds compared to an MMC1 as I want to buy the best option.
Thanks
I have a couple of Axel's Shibata tipped cartridges - one of my favourites. One of our members did a comparison with a SMMC20EN here.
That just makes it more confusing haha
This is what I gleaned from that article and my other research,,,,,,,
If your vinyl is mint and of high quality the Soundsmith version is the best at bringing out the vinyls full potential.
The B&O one sounds nicer with average recordings and poorer quality vinyl which makes sense to me as vinyl quality has improved over the last 30 years and B&O may of made them to compensate for that. So people might prefer this B&O sound as it masks poorer quality vinyl, sound not so bad.
Whereas the Soundsmith is an honest cartridge and will play simply what's on the vinyl, poor quality and all.
I have a lot of brand new high quality vinyl and a lot of non B&O Audiophilles that review the Soundsmith cartridges do as well and as I mentioned before, they all seem to love them. So obviously the Sound Smith cartridges compared to other cartridges for non B&O machines are not "harsh", "cd" like etc but only when compared to a B&O factory one you hear these comments. So maybe on high quality new vinyl the B&O is to mellow and soft?
Peter at Soundsmith actually said to me that if I own a lot of second hand vinyl of varying quality not to get his higher quality carts as these will make the vinyl sound worse then a cheaper cart. But on very high quality vinyl, this is where his expensive carts shine.
The opinions I just stated are NOT FACT, just my point of view after internet surfing, talking to Peter and listening to my Soundsmith cart. Of course the only real test is to hear the original recording/master tape/live concert of a particular recording and then compare differant carts to see which one reproduces it the best.
I don't care if Sound Smith sounds differant to B&O carts, all I care about is that the music reproduction is as honest as possible. Whatever one provides that, is the one I will buy.
Any more thoughts?
I don't think you have to go to the bother of listening to Original Master Tapes, highly unlikely that you are going to be able to run through 10 or 20 of those in a sound proof room anyway !
for me the article that Peter wrote about the Soundsmith v Axel is spot on, if you are like me, then have both and be happy, that way you are not missing out :-)
http://www.beoworld.org/article_view.asp?id=203
Good points brought out.
Lools like that's what I'll have to do, buy both.
Whats Axles higher end Shibata with Boron cantilever sound like in comparison to a/his MMC2/1?
The same signature B&O sound just with more clarity or in between B&O and Soundsmith?
The Soundsmith cartridges are not compete replicas of the originals - they differ is quite a few ways - for instance the orientation of the diamond is 45 degrees different. They do sound quite different as well - I don't have a a frequency analyser - maybe this is one for Martin!! - but I would guess the MMC20EN has a rise in the frequency response at about 12khz compared to the MMC20CL - I would be interested in seeing a scientific test and if someone has the equipment, I can provide the cartridges!
Oh! My MMC4 Axel re-tip doesn't look anything like yours at all! And it took him two attempts... I gave up in the end. It sounds bad too.
Axel has done approx. 40-50 re-furbishs for me, maybe more. The above pictures look typical, so I don't know what you have if yours looks any different??
I ask him to re-furbish MMC4 and MMC2 to as near as possible their original spec and they all sound superb. I have never had any complaint re sound quality from a customer.
Regards Graham
He did an MMC2 for me and it was superb.
A few years ago, I sent a worn MMC5 I'd gotten off ebay to FJS @ tonabnehmer/schallplattennadeln. He gave me instructions on sending the cartridge to him and various options - I sent it tracked and it showed as delivered but then I was ghosted and never heard anything else back via email. I only lost 35 bucks or so, plus the shipping, but I'm still pissed about it. I only wish I had gone through ebay and not via direct correspondence, maybe I would have had recourse through ebay at least.
I ended up getting an SMMC4 about 6 months ago after the price seemed to drop down to 200, and i'm pretty happy. it doesn't sound the best on inner grooves on my RX2, but i otherwise like the sound signature (it's definitely brighter than my still-good MMC2 on my TX2)
My 2 cents regarding FJS.
I have sent a couple of SP14 and SP10 to Axel back then when he was still active. I was always satisfacted with his service and his communication.
Apparently, FJS took over after Axel. He also retipped some of my SP14s and it pains me to say but communication with him is rather weird and akward. I always had a feeling of disinterest from his side.
Half a year ago I purchased a MMC2 from him and everything was fine. I did however notice that the cantilever is a bit too long and the stylus protector cannot be closed because it hits the cantilever.
All in all, I didn't make a fuss about it but it did make me doubt his level of service. I also wonder whats the impact on the stylus pressure because the cantilever is longer than it should be. Anyhow, I will definitely think twice before sending any more B&O pickups to FJS ...
styppen: it pains me to say but communication with him is rather weird and akward. I always had a feeling of disinterest from his side.
it pains me to say but communication with him is rather weird and akward. I always had a feeling of disinterest from his side.
I'm sorry to say it too, but between experience and what I read here and there, it seems it quite common to a lot of those artisan.
Maybe it can be explained by the fact that we, clients are often in the middle of retaliations or with the urgent will to listen to records again etc etc,and for them it is daily work and they have to deal with all the clients sollicitations and fears.
Hello Tim
I sent a damaged MMC4 to FJS and I got it back all nice and working. No complaints.
However I have another question regarding these cartridges. I acquired a non working 1800 turntable with a good MMC5.
The cartridge was great and I am in the middle of repairing the tonearm. Tedious but it is progressing. Two of the wires were broken so I am in the middle of a rebuild which involved de-soldering the wires from the small circuit board.
I need to re-solder and have identified each wire from the cartridge shell. However the pins are not labelled and I do not want to do a trial and error. They are in a diamond, shape.Do you happen to know the pin config on the back of the cartridge, Don't seem able to find it on line.
Thanks in advance
Mike