ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Puncher: I'm amazed that some think this is some sort of temporary blip! In brief B&O can't sell enough of what they have to offer in the AV arena, either too few people want them, too few can afford them, or else they cost B&O too much to manufacture. How well do you imagine B&O have done in the TV market since they started with flat panels ~ 2006, they've struggled to keep apace with the accelerating technology while the competition have released really quite decent TV's (some of which even look quite decent), and how do you see that changing in the near future? In the audio sector, the traditional CD system in the corner has disappeared, many moved to Sonos type systems, some Mac or PC based. B&O released a £5K PC with a posh (small) tethered display and scroll wheels. While some of the speakers are excellent no one buys them if they don't have a B&O system - refer to points above! Before you reply with "my BV's brilliant" or "the Playmaker is relatively cheap", refer to point one above - not enough people agree with you! As no one here wants B&O to take measures to seriously reduce their costs, perhaps the way forward is to increase their product prices?? They really need to concentrate their design effort and money on a market they can definitely identity and quantify - maybe it means dropping TV's, who knows, they need laser focus. All this while the Euro looks like it could implode at any time, China is having (for them) a bit of a blip and Russia could shortly be taking money home in wheelbarrows!
I'm amazed that some think this is some sort of temporary blip!
In brief B&O can't sell enough of what they have to offer in the AV arena, either too few people want them, too few can afford them, or else they cost B&O too much to manufacture.
How well do you imagine B&O have done in the TV market since they started with flat panels ~ 2006, they've struggled to keep apace with the accelerating technology while the competition have released really quite decent TV's (some of which even look quite decent), and how do you see that changing in the near future?
In the audio sector, the traditional CD system in the corner has disappeared, many moved to Sonos type systems, some Mac or PC based. B&O released a £5K PC with a posh (small) tethered display and scroll wheels. While some of the speakers are excellent no one buys them if they don't have a B&O system - refer to points above!
Before you reply with "my BV's brilliant" or "the Playmaker is relatively cheap", refer to point one above - not enough people agree with you!
As no one here wants B&O to take measures to seriously reduce their costs, perhaps the way forward is to increase their product prices??
They really need to concentrate their design effort and money on a market they can definitely identity and quantify - maybe it means dropping TV's, who knows, they need laser focus.
All this while the Euro looks like it could implode at any time, China is having (for them) a bit of a blip and Russia could shortly be taking money home in wheelbarrows!
Have to agree with much of this analysis, although Russia is swapping dollars for gold so is less likely to suffer hyperinflation than many countries.
The Euro zone is bound to break-up because the loans to Greece can't be repaid without more loans to pay the earlier loans.
B&O's sales strategy is in flux. Stores have closed. New stores under direct ownership have opened up, just when you would think there would be benefits in having B&O products alongside competitor products for direct comparison. It's even rumoured that the newly created/ converted outlet store in Liverpool (listed on the B&O website as the only outlet store in Europe) may revert to being a standard showroom again. Does that mean that all stores will be encouraged to sell their own trade-ins or end-of-range products, or will EoR products continue to get dumped at various shed operations?
Look at what is happening to Saab. Mahindra are likely to be the new owner. They tried unsuccessfully to buy Aston Martin. Why? In Mahindra's own words, they do not have the years to build a reputation in the West. They have to buy quality established names/ operations. B&O are likely to go the same way...... A Far East manufacturer wanting to expand into the West via a prestige existing name.
Graham
Millemissen: Chris: I'm confused about the selling, what exactly is there in sale? - The whole of Bang & Olufsen brand? - Or just the Audio-TV division. If its only the Audio-TV division, what happens with the Aluminium division, and the Medical division. Could somebody please explain, I can't find the answer nowhere on the net. Noone knows! They are all just speculating - journalist, financial analysts and of course the Beoworlders. Keep it cool! MM
Chris: I'm confused about the selling, what exactly is there in sale? - The whole of Bang & Olufsen brand? - Or just the Audio-TV division. If its only the Audio-TV division, what happens with the Aluminium division, and the Medical division. Could somebody please explain, I can't find the answer nowhere on the net.
I'm confused about the selling, what exactly is there in sale?
- The whole of Bang & Olufsen brand?
- Or just the Audio-TV division.
If its only the Audio-TV division, what happens with the Aluminium division, and the Medical division.
Could somebody please explain, I can't find the answer nowhere on the net.
Noone knows!
They are all just speculating - journalist, financial analysts and of course the Beoworlders.
Keep it cool!
MM
I wouldn't call it "speculating" if indeed B&O has commissioned Carnegie to seek a buyer. Carnegie isn't doing this for free, so results are expected.
A luxury conglomerate would be a better choice I think than someone like Samsung. Would undoubtedly mean the 2 dollar product costing 80 with the B&O logo printed scenario.
Too long to list....
I guess most of us (including me) simply love B&O products but I'm not blind. B&O lost its core competencies! We all know how to use the products, what they can do etc. But give one of your friends who never used one of their systems a Beo 4 and ask him to switch on Lamp X, listen to Internetradio or DLNA / Airplay sources. You truly have to admit: It is NOT easy to use anymore! Those times are over. A Beosound 5 is confusing for many people and too complicated. My wife refuses to use it as it is not as easy as iTunes on heir PC or a simple CD player. Friends are lamenting that the userinterface is not fluid and I have to agree. For a 5k music player it is embarassing! And high tech and high quality? No, sorry! Beosound 5 died 2 times: Mainboard, Beotime is unreliable when the power goes low. It SHOULD show "low battery" in the display but it doesn't. It simply doesn't chime anymore so I have to learn the hard way that I have to change the batteries. It's the same behavior on two Beotimes. Beosound 3: 2 times in for repair in 1 year Playmaker is - to say it in a positive way - "very sensitive" regarding wireless lokal networks to work with DVD2: First the clip of the flap broke, now the complete aluminium flap felt of..
and these are only my products that failed. When I read about the issues of the new Avant or Beovision 10 and 11 clouding etc. pp... oh dear! B&O has to find a solution, quickly! The competition builds high tech and high quality products, too, for better prices. Have a listen to the Sony 4K TV with the 3 way speaker system in the glass sides and you'll forget your new Avant... it's a shame. Motor driven speakers? Have a look at LG's 4K TVs. What B&O as a luxury brand needs: - manufacture in Denmark. - first class quality control - develop EASY to use and reliable user interfaces for the digital age - high quality components - get back the reliability of their products - first class consumer service! - more marketing - interoperability of B&O and non-B&O products in an EASY way - invest in research and development, not gold plated products or Golf events. - develop products that fit into existing markets and consumer needs That's what I would do as the CEO of B&O and I promise it would work! :-)
What B&O as a luxury brand needs:- manufacture in Denmark. (That might be possible, but not for the Beoplay range)- first class quality control (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?)- develop EASY to use and reliable user interfaces for the digital age (Is that not what they are doing? have you seen Essense and Moment)- high quality components (It will simply make the products too expensive, have you seen how people complain now?)- get back the reliability of their products (I'm not sure how good it have been compared to now, you can't judge what you hear, as negative Things are more highlighted)- first class consumer service! (Again expensive, but sure a good and in som way a goog place to start)- more marketing (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?)- interoperability of B&O and non-B&O products in an EASY way (They are doing that, have you seen the transmitter 1 Works well, and RCA input on the speakers) - invest in research and development, not gold plated products or Golf events. (What do you think they are doing? Money are tight)- develop products that fit into existing markets and consumer needsThat's what I would do as the CEO of B&O and I promise it would work! :-) (And you would go bankrupt before the first day of Work!)
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
emilos:What B&O as a luxury brand needs: - manufacture in Denmark. (That might be possible, but not for the Beoplay range) - first class quality control (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?) - develop EASY to use and reliable user interfaces for the digital age (Is that not what they are doing? have you seen Essense and Moment) - high quality components (It will simply make the products too expensive, have you seen how people complain now?) - get back the reliability of their products (I'm not sure how good it have been compared to now, you can't judge what you hear, as negative Things are more highlighted) - first class consumer service! (Again expensive, but sure a good and in som way a goog place to start) - more marketing (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?) - interoperability of B&O and non-B&O products in an EASY way (They are doing that, have you seen the transmitter 1 Works well, and RCA input on the speakers) - invest in research and development, not gold plated products or Golf events. (What do you think they are doing? Money are tight) - develop products that fit into existing markets and consumer needs That's what I would do as the CEO of B&O and I promise it would work! :-) (And you would go bankrupt before the first day of Work!)
I'm you TWG and Raeuber! There's NO REASON why the BeoPlay range could not have been manufactured in Denmark given their HUGE price. The BeoPlay brand should have been even better than the BANG&OLUFSEN brand because of the fact its main purpose is to introduce the young professional to the portfolio. That's why I couldn't believe it when I first heard that the BeoSound 8 had been outsourced to China. For me, it went everything against what B&O represented as a highly upmarket maybe superficial brand. It's a shame as PLAY should have been as strong as BANG&OLUFSEN. For instance look at MINI. Owned by BMW but MINI drivers do not necessarily aspire to owning a BMW car hence why the MINI brand is expanded into seven and more variants/sizes/prices.
But, we ALL were debating all of these posts four years ago and still nothing happened!
Paul W:There's NO REASON why the BeoPlay range could not have been manufactured in Denmark given their HUGE price. The BeoPlay brand should have been even better than the BANG&OLUFSEN brand because of the fact its main purpose is to introduce the young professional to the portfolio.
Utter nonsense!
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: Paul W:There's NO REASON why the BeoPlay range could not have been manufactured in Denmark given their HUGE price. The BeoPlay brand should have been even better than the BANG&OLUFSEN brand because of the fact its main purpose is to introduce the young professional to the portfolio. Utter nonsense!
You're being far too polite I think.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
You're entitled to your opinion Jeff & Puncher BUT if they PLAY range isn't superb then there is no way on God's earth that the person who has bought it will ever move up to a BANG&OLUFSEN is there? Tell me, if YOU bought a PLAY product for £950 and it disappointed YOU, would you then consider spending £10,000 on a BANG&OLUFSEN hifi? I think I know your answer! And that's why B&O are searching for a buyer. Because nobody is buying their products UNLIKE the 95million Apple products that were sold over the Christmas period.
Paul W: You're entitled to your opinion Jeff & Puncher BUT if they PLAY range isn't superb then there is no way on God's earth that the person who has bought it will ever move up to a BANG&OLUFSEN is there? Tell me, if YOU bought a PLAY product for £950 and it disappointed YOU, would you then consider spending £10,000 on a BANG&OLUFSEN hifi? I think I know your answer! And that's why B&O are searching for a buyer. Because nobody is buying their products UNLIKE the 95million Apple products that were sold over the Christmas period.
I said -
Puncher: In brief B&O can't sell enough of what they have to offer in the AV arena, either too few people want them, too few can afford them, or else they cost B&O too much to manufacture.
BeoPlay is meant to be an introduction to B&O, it will never be better! Increasing costs by manufacturing in Struer is not the answer, not enough people bought it as it was, what do you think increasing the cost will do?
You are right that Apple are the example though, ......... convince the public they are buying luxury product, whlist selling them mass Chinese manufactured product disguised in a nice frock, making huge margins into the bargain..................in fact everything you are wanting B&O not to do!!
Paul, yeah Apple made an awesome quarter.
However, as a long time user I did like "Tiger" better than the crap they're pushing out now adays. I.e. "Yosemite".
It's not as bulletproof anymore, and it's easy to see all their focus is on the iPhone/iPad.
bayerische: Paul, yeah Apple made an awesome quarter. However, as a long time user I did like "Tiger" better than the crap they're pushing out now adays. I.e. "Yosemite". It's not as bulletproof anymore, and it's easy to see all their focus is on the iPhone/iPad.
But not on previous generation iPads ..... they are now hopelessly slow and full of error issues running the latest OS.
vikinger: bayerische: Paul, yeah Apple made an awesome quarter. However, as a long time user I did like "Tiger" better than the crap they're pushing out now adays. I.e. "Yosemite". It's not as bulletproof anymore, and it's easy to see all their focus is on the iPhone/iPad. But not on previous generation iPads ..... they are now hopelessly slow and full of error issues running the latest OS. Graham
Don't get me started in my iPad (first generation) I mean it was fine when new. Today 4 years later it's a paperweight. Unable to surf the web.
So everything done in Cupertino isn't in direct connection to "God".
Yes I believe two thirds of Apple's profits are from the iPhone! But well deserved - it's a damn good product and it's affordable and highly reliable. Just a shame they can't with all of their money build their own factory and treat the young workers well with a good salary who make the iPhone.
I love Yosemite - its put a new life into my MacBook whereas Mavericks really slowed it down.
Puncher, I don't think Apple are convincing the public that the iPhone is a luxury product - it's the same price as a Samsung S5. It certainly is not 5 or 6 times more expensive than any other smartphone rival. Anyway, as with everything, we are all free and educated to choose the product or service that we require. :)
bayerische:Don't get me started in my iPad (first generation) I mean it was fine when new. Today 4 years later it's a paperweight. Unable to surf the web.
I suppose the idea was that it would have long expired by now for other reasons (like a dead battery, with replacement work costing half as much as a new model device). Throwaway culture - absolutely contrary to what B&O is/was supposed to be, and apparently a much better money maker.
--mika
Very true Tournedos, but isn't PLAY like that with it's 3 warranty but no repair strategy?
Touch wood, my MacBook is 5 years old, in use for 12hours+ a day for business and still as perfect as day one! The battery has been charged 3853 times apparently, and it's guaranteed to last 1000 charges so it's done amazing :) My iPhone 4S is still perfect after 3.5 years use so no worries :) Their after sales is incredible. I ordered on new rear plate cover via email on a Sunday night and it was delivered to my house at 9.15am the next morning - free of charge! That's service for you!
Raeuber: emilos: What B&O as a luxury brand needs: - manufacture in Denmark. (That might be possible, but not for the Beoplay range) - first class quality control (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?) - develop EASY to use and reliable user interfaces for the digital age (Is that not what they are doing? have you seen Essense and Moment) - high quality components (It will simply make the products too expensive, have you seen how people complain now?) - get back the reliability of their products (I'm not sure how good it have been compared to now, you can't judge what you hear, as negative Things are more highlighted) - first class consumer service! (Again expensive, but sure a good and in som way a goog place to start) - more marketing (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?) - interoperability of B&O and non-B&O products in an EASY way (They are doing that, have you seen the transmitter 1 Works well, and RCA input on the speakers) - invest in research and development, not gold plated products or Golf events. (What do you think they are doing? Money are tight) - develop products that fit into existing markets and consumer needs That's what I would do as the CEO of B&O and I promise it would work! :-) (And you would go bankrupt before the first day of Work!) Sorry, but your comments are nonsense. B&O products are at least 5 times more expensive than the competitors, especially TVs. And they have money for nothing??
emilos: What B&O as a luxury brand needs: - manufacture in Denmark. (That might be possible, but not for the Beoplay range) - first class quality control (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?) - develop EASY to use and reliable user interfaces for the digital age (Is that not what they are doing? have you seen Essense and Moment) - high quality components (It will simply make the products too expensive, have you seen how people complain now?) - get back the reliability of their products (I'm not sure how good it have been compared to now, you can't judge what you hear, as negative Things are more highlighted) - first class consumer service! (Again expensive, but sure a good and in som way a goog place to start) - more marketing (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?) - interoperability of B&O and non-B&O products in an EASY way (They are doing that, have you seen the transmitter 1 Works well, and RCA input on the speakers) - invest in research and development, not gold plated products or Golf events. (What do you think they are doing? Money are tight) - develop products that fit into existing markets and consumer needs That's what I would do as the CEO of B&O and I promise it would work! :-) (And you would go bankrupt before the first day of Work!)
What B&O as a luxury brand needs: - manufacture in Denmark. (That might be possible, but not for the Beoplay range) - first class quality control (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?) - develop EASY to use and reliable user interfaces for the digital age (Is that not what they are doing? have you seen Essense and Moment) - high quality components (It will simply make the products too expensive, have you seen how people complain now?) - get back the reliability of their products (I'm not sure how good it have been compared to now, you can't judge what you hear, as negative Things are more highlighted) - first class consumer service! (Again expensive, but sure a good and in som way a goog place to start) - more marketing (Too expensive have you seen how much Money you have as the CEO?) - interoperability of B&O and non-B&O products in an EASY way (They are doing that, have you seen the transmitter 1 Works well, and RCA input on the speakers) - invest in research and development, not gold plated products or Golf events. (What do you think they are doing? Money are tight) - develop products that fit into existing markets and consumer needs That's what I would do as the CEO of B&O and I promise it would work! :-) (And you would go bankrupt before the first day of Work!)
Sorry, but your comments are nonsense. B&O products are at least 5 times more expensive than the competitors, especially TVs. And they have money for nothing??
I do not get your argument there Raeuber, B&O is not 5 times more expensive when you compare product. If you think that I guess you have never seen the idea in B&O but I now you have so why this statement?
Give me one example of the current range where this is the fact? And remember we are not comparing skoda/Mercedes we compare BMW/Mercedes so take a product which you actually can compare.
tournedos: bayerische:Don't get me started in my iPad (first generation) I mean it was fine when new. Today 4 years later it's a paperweight. Unable to surf the web. I suppose the idea was that it would have long expired by now for other reasons (like a dead battery, with replacement work costing half as much as a new model device). Throwaway culture - absolutely contrary to what B&O is/was supposed to be, and apparently a much better money maker.
The battery is fine, as It's been unusable for over a year already, no doubt due to software "updates" slowing them down.
Emilos, an Avant is 5 times more expensive than a 4K Panasonic! I'm quite confident that the Panasonic will have a far, far, far superior picture too. So TV wise they are rather expensive. Sadly, the Panasonic will stay be performing in 10 years time whilst from my experience, the B&O sadly will not. Nothing of theirs has lasted for me!
One of the main problems is technology is moving to fast.
Back in the crt days were technology stabilised itself for years, only moving from 4:3 to 16:9 50-100hz etc but still using crt technology.
B&o were able to stand out from the crowd with their unusual designs,excellent sound etc,and customers were willing to spend much more over sony,panny sets which looked the same,as it would last for years and they never worried about new technologies around the corner,as most bought B&o due to being simplistic to use with built in vhs,dvd etc.
The humble CD player was the same, it was a stabilised source that everyone knew,so B&o made it stand out from the usual boxes with 2300,9000 etc.
The problem is now, we had plasma,led,led,oled tvs which also look much the same but bundled with a seperate sound bar,they give decent sound now,so customers are scared to invest in a beovision as they don't know when it will be old news,also they can get good sound with a soundbar,when in the past B&o stood out due to their sound over the other flat screens.
Also beolab columns are copied to the death now,from cheap home cinema in the box systems.Most people are streaming which can be done with hidden electronics and a tablet as controller,so B&o have got a tough task to stand out from the crowd.
If you look at the watch industry nothing has changed much over the years as your choice is mechanical,or Quartz really so the big names can live of their heritage etc.
B&o were renowned for their beovision crt tvs,different CD players,column speakers as they were all designed different from the mass market,and were simple to use and lasted years,Danish design and build gave you confidence.
Apple and Bose are two of the best marketing companies in the world,as they have mastered the art of cheap components dressed up sell to the masses.
I agree Apple quality has dropped or it's just me being unlucky,my iPhone 4s has been the most reliable phone ever had it since launch,were as I have had numerous 5,5s and 6 phones due to crashing and faults,the same as my iPads lucky if they last 12-18 months,then too slow and other niggles.
The average person on the street thinks Rolex make the best watches,granted they are well made and can take a beating,but they are massed produced and much of the price goes to the marketing.Other brands offer better quality and exclusivity without the hype,but the general public still think bose make the best sound systems.
Marketing has a lot to do with it.The average lottery winner buying a tv would be impressed with a massive 100" 3d 4k etc Samsung with bose surround as they think it is the best,the same person would buy a diamond gold Rolex and red Ferrari.
Another with the same budget could buy a smaller beovision,patek watch and a custom order BRABUS car but I bet the general public would be more impressed with the first person,as they probably know the brands better and relate to them.
B&o are never going to compete with the big boys who favour profit over exclusivity,quality,heritage etc,they should have stuck to their brand values and kept everything in house in Denmark were they can keep on top of quality etc,look at Swiss watches with the Geneva seal,people pay for that heritage.
look at jaguar/Landrover they were in a bad way years ago,with a bad reputation for quality,reliability etc,now they have upped the ante due to fantastic investment by Tata.
They have upped the prices and the demand is still sky high everything much on waiting lists,we had over 300 advanced orders for the new discovery sport and not a single discount,is it any better than a top audi,bmw,Merc etc,but the brand is stronger and they know their market.Walk into bmw and you will get £££s of a x5 but nothing of a Rr sport and you need to wait months.People buy into marketing and brands more than anything.
What I do know Is B&o are missing direction,original brand values and sadly David Lewis.
Sorry for the long post but had long day and the wine is going down a treat.
Please put a link to a Panasonic 55" 4K screen for 1/5 the price
And what about the surround decoder ?
But first just find the screen!
Paul W: Emilos, an Avant is 5 times more expensive than a 4K Panasonic! I'm quite confident that the Panasonic will have a far, far, far superior picture too. So TV wise they are rather expensive. Sadly, the Panasonic will stay be performing in 10 years time whilst from my experience, the B&O sadly will not. Nothing of theirs has lasted for me!
Strange that half of my B&O is more than 40 years old and still going strong!
I would not want something 10 years old from Apple. Unless as a paperweight. A bit perspective is needed I think.
My BL5's are soon 10 years old. Still going strong. My BV9 isn't too young either, although not 10 years still.
Why compare a BV Avant with a Panasonic 4K tv?
The Avant is a tv with an excellent pre-processor/audioengine, an awsome speakers system and some forward pointing NetLink capacities.
The Panasonic tv is just a pixed boosting screen with a tuner, some fancy smart-tv functions and a mediocre speaker.
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemisse, give them a chance to find the Panasonic to 1/5 of the price, because they cannot.
Then we can talk about how much they look alike,
Is the built in speaker same quality?
Is the remote same quality?
Is the build same quality, glass, metal frame?
Is the sound decoder the same quality?
I simply dont understand how you can say 5 times the price for the same product, please give an example and please put a link with price instead of just making a statement and then believe it is true because something you heard.
emilos: Millemisse, give them a chance to find the Panasonic to 1/5 of the price, because they cannot. Then we can talk about how much they look alike, Is the built in speaker same quality? Is the remote same quality? Is the build same quality, glass, metal frame? Is the sound decoder the same quality? I simply dont understand how you can say 5 times the price for the same product, please give an example and please put a link with price instead of just making a statement and then believe it is true because something you heard.
You missed the question -
Are people buying enough of them to keep the company afloat?
The idea of "future-proofing" a television or some similar appliance wasn't in the cards 10 years ago. The speed of technological advancement, and the trickle down to the end user has exponentially increased.
B&O's products were designed to last for decades, because the technology they supported was set to last for decades. CD's for example are only recently being supplanted by digital. They lasted for a long time, as did the Beosounds (2500, 3200, 4000, 9000, 4, etc.).
What can B&O design that is timeless not only aesthetically but relatively timeless from a technological standpoint? Although many disagree about the look / functionality of the Moment, the "brains" behind it are founded in something wise: a digital hub, which is nice to use and nice to look at. It isn't designed for everyone. Evidence being that people who enjoy using their phones and iPads for music aren't necessarily going to buy it.
What am I trying to say here? Many have said B&O needs to refocus, but what to focus on? One television chassis, modular upgrades? Fewer speakers. One "stereo hub" a la the Moment... B&O can do a few things, and do it better than anyone else out there. It takes guts for the course correction, but it can be done.
Also, about Denmark / Czech / China manufacturing. I think Apple has proven that tooling for quality products can be done anywhere. It takes supervision, insanely OCD control over the workstreams, among other things. The idea that Denmark is the be all and end all of the best B&O has to offer seems to be antiquated one. But the proof is in the pudding. Would anyone know that a B&O product was made in China were it not for a label? If the answer is no, then I rest my case.
Cheapest I found a 55" Pana was 3500 euro.
Although the 58" was 2400 or so. But either way, 1/5 isn't happening.
Paul W:Sadly, the Panasonic will stay be performing in 10 years time whilst from my experience, the B&O sadly will not. Nothing of theirs has lasted for me!
I do not recall you owning any BeoVisions. What did you have that did not last?
Millemissen: Paul W: Emilos, an Avant is 5 times more expensive than a 4K Panasonic! I'm quite confident that the Panasonic will have a far, far, far superior picture too. So TV wise they are rather expensive. Sadly, the Panasonic will stay be performing in 10 years time whilst from my experience, the B&O sadly will not. Nothing of theirs has lasted for me! Why compare a BV Avant with a Panasonic 4K tv? The Avant is a tv with an excellent pre-processor/audioengine, an awsome speakers system and some forward pointing NetLink capacities. The Panasonic tv is just a pixed boosting screen with a tuner, some fancy smart-tv functions and a mediocre speaker. MM
&1, completely different value proposition.
Ƨcɑɽɑɱɑnɡɑ: Paul W:Sadly, the Panasonic will stay be performing in 10 years time whilst from my experience, the B&O sadly will not. Nothing of theirs has lasted for me! I do not recall you owning any BeoVisions. What did you have that did not last?
... Bold statement with no basis re Panasonic.
Puncher: emilos: Millemisse, give them a chance to find the Panasonic to 1/5 of the price, because they cannot. Then we can talk about how much they look alike, Is the built in speaker same quality? Is the remote same quality? Is the build same quality, glass, metal frame? Is the sound decoder the same quality? I simply dont understand how you can say 5 times the price for the same product, please give an example and please put a link with price instead of just making a statement and then believe it is true because something you heard. You missed the question - Are people buying enough of them to keep the company afloat?
Of course!
Puncher: You missed the question - Are people buying enough of them to keep the company afloat?
I did not try to answer any question - and therefore did not miss any.
I just asked, why people keep comparing two different things!
Millemissen: Puncher: You missed the question - Are people buying enough of them to keep the company afloat? I did not try to answer any question - and therefore did not miss any. I just asked, why people keep comparing two different things! MM
I don't recall asking you the question, however that isn't really the point! The point is, whatever B&O are offering, even including all of your added value features, isn't selling in enough numbers to keep the company afloat. That being the case, the fact that you think it is still better overall value than some other product isn't going to really impact on the companies future!
Puncher: I don't recall asking you the question!
I don't recall asking you the question!
Me neither!
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I am not the one to judge, whether 'what B&O is offering' will sell in the future - who is?
But that won't keep me from explaining people, what they get, when they buy a BV instead of a Pana-tv.
Panasonic 4K 55 inch £1199.
http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/panasonic/viera-tx55ax630b/pana-tx55ax630b
And I know..... still not comparing like with like.
Paul w had a dvd 1,beovision 6-22 and a beosound century,I have to admit,not the best products to compare judgement.If he had a avant dvd,beosound 9000 and lab 8000,he would have never looked back.
The beovision 6-22 was their first lcd and was not the best,also dvd 1 was a rebadged phillips and was flaky,a beocenter 1 offered better picture,sound and design and the ethos and core fundamentals of the brand.I remember the dj Trevor nelson had one in his lounge.
I have always chose my beovisions over the years which represent the brand the best and stand out and have the majik be it design,sound or simplicity.
I have had mx tvs,bc 1s,av9000s,bv3s,bc6'avants,bv5 and bv7 the bv9 I still to this day think they represent what the brand has to offer at their best.They were all well made,iconic designed,easy to use and offered excellent picture and sound and still work to this day as they are all still within the family.
My grandads av9000 that he bought new over 20 years ago still gives him the same delight now and still stands out even though it's a 28"4:3 crt,because it has the magic with the stand,built in sources,sound,curtains etc.
Even Loewe which had huge problems managed to take a new start with new investors and now they propose nice TVs with more than decent sound. UHD 55 inch starts at 24000€, with some aluminium. And for this price they still have a good margin I guess...