ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
2400€ !!!
and HEVC compatible...
The all guns blazing panny,sony,Samsung tvs with spec sheets stickered down the sides in currys/pc world, promising the best picture etc is like buying a £40k Mitsubishi evolution or Nissan gtr,very fast and will beat a lot of the more exotic cars point to point,so why do people buy porsche,ferraris,Astons etc at 2-4times the price?
It is because the brand is stronger,they have the heritage,country of origin,design and build quality,that is why I chose B&o.the others are just spec sheets.
The Mitsubishi will get you a-b fast but has cheap interior,ugly to look at and not that well built,but must be good because the specs say so.
samsung 4k 3d curved tv with the highest refresh rate fancy processing must have a better picture than a 1080p older bv7 led because the specs say so.
i would rather have a older beovision and porsche,they maybe are not the fastest or have the sharpest artificial picture,but both have tremendous build quality,heritage,built and designed in country of origin and iconic designed and will be remembered.
butch1: i would rather have a older beovision and porsche,they maybe are not the fastest or have the sharpest artificial picture,but both have tremendous build quality,heritage,built and designed in country of origin and iconic designed and will be remembered.
We aren't the problem. The problem is public perception, which has a different outlook on the value proposition than us. "Normal people" aren't on Beoworld. "Normal People" don't value things like we do. Even those who value things like we do, don't seem to value B&O like we do.
butch1: The all guns blazing panny,sony,Samsung tvs with spec sheets stickered down the sides in currys/pc world, promising the best picture etc is like buying a £40k Mitsubishi evolution or Nissan gtr,very fast and will beat a lot of the more exotic cars point to point,so why do people buy porsche,ferraris,Astons etc at 2-4times the price? It is because the brand is stronger,they have the heritage,country of origin,design and build quality,that is why I chose B&o.the others are just spec sheets. The Mitsubishi will get you a-b fast but has cheap interior,ugly to look at and not that well built,but must be good because the specs say so. samsung 4k 3d curved tv with the highest refresh rate fancy processing must have a better picture than a 1080p older bv7 led because the specs say so. i would rather have a older beovision and porsche,they maybe are not the fastest or have the sharpest artificial picture,but both have tremendous build quality,heritage,built and designed in country of origin and iconic designed and will be remembered.
I shall say this and be prepared to be shot down as I know little about the car market, however -
I see Porsche and Ferrari as fairly sorted as companies (I know nothing of their financial history) but Aston Martin has been sold on several times and struggled financially despite, I would argue, a much, much higher public profile for luxurious, stylish performance than B&O have ever mustered among the general public.
My point being that having the right product sometimes isn't even enough, but if not enough people know about it or, more importantly, want to buy it, what chance have you got?
Ban boring signatures!
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Sal: We aren't the problem. The problem is public perception, which has a different outlook on the value proposition than us. "Normal people" aren't on Beoworld. "Normal People" don't value things like we do. Even those who value things like we do, don't seem to value B&O like we do.
i am talking to/communicating with 'normal people' too - not just with Beoworlders.
I guess we all are!
That could be a start......if we want to keep B&O alive.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: Sal: We aren't the problem. The problem is public perception, which has a different outlook on the value proposition than us. "Normal people" aren't on Beoworld. "Normal People" don't value things like we do. Even those who value things like we do, don't seem to value B&O like we do. i am talking to/communicating with 'normal people' too - not just with Beoworlders. I guess we all are! That could be a start......if we want to keep B&O alive. MM
Talking is not enough, you have to hear what is said in return!
Seriously guys, 'normal people' either can't afford B&O products or simply like my friends, prefer the great outdoors - most of my friends spent their time mountain biking, boating, climbing, surfing, playing basketball and training at the gym. They spent their money on holidays etc. Some classify expensive products like B&O as aimed at highly materialistic people and pretentious whilst when I mentioned people buying the TVs at the prices, my friends thought it was very sad to spend that amount 'watching TV' and not having a life! That's how healthy, young, active friends tend to view it. Most have BOSE iPhone docks or bluetooth streamers.
A Danish friend at the gym said that it was a brand that 'his father would buy, not him'.
Simple answer there Chris, they buy they Rolex as an investment hoping that it will increase in money. Mind you, what a shallow person does that? Seriously though, outside of this site, how many people do you know who would spend 5K or 7K JUST on a pair of speakers? I think people after the credit card greed and then recession are a lot more careful with their spending these days as I'm sure many people have witnessed redundancy in their lives!
Puncher: Millemissen: Sal: We aren't the problem. The problem is public perception, which has a different outlook on the value proposition than us. "Normal people" aren't on Beoworld. "Normal People" don't value things like we do. Even those who value things like we do, don't seem to value B&O like we do. i am talking to/communicating with 'normal people' too - not just with Beoworlders. I guess we all are! That could be a start......if we want to keep B&O alive. MM Talking is not enough, you have to hear what is said in return!
Hear Hear!
Too long to list....
Paul W: I'm sure many people have witnessed redundancy in their lives!
No denying the global recession is hitting the middle class as well, but I believe B&O just never was the first choice of the unemployed, nor do I think they should try to be that.
Those who have lots of money will continue to have lots of money, and during recession, they will buy things away from those who do not have lots of money, thus making even more money when the recession finally passes. My view on economics distilled down to the bones.
--mika
Paul W: Seriously guys, 'normal people' either can't afford B&O products or simply like my friends, prefer the great outdoors - most of my friends spent their time mountain biking, boating, climbing, surfing, playing basketball and training at the gym. They spent their money on holidays etc. Some classify expensive products like B&O as aimed at highly materialistic people and pretentious whilst when I mentioned people buying the TVs at the prices, my friends thought it was very sad to spend that amount 'watching TV' and not having a life! That's how healthy, young, active friends tend to view it. Most have BOSE iPhone docks or bluetooth streamers. A Danish friend at the gym said that it was a brand that 'his father would buy, not him'.
You need new friends.
I have friends who enjoy mountain biking and spent upto £8k on a bike,but it's their passion.My passion is music and movies so I happily spend money on that,and if I am in the position to spend thousands to feed my passion I will.
We all justify spending money on our passions if it's holidays,cars,watches,clothing etc.
i know a man who where's £4k made to measure suits but a £100 watch as his passion is tailoring.Were I know another who is the opposite.
i am the same age as Paul w,I work 6 days a week upto 12 hrs a day ,and still find time to spend time with my family,having movie nights in the winter were my beovision is used to its full potential,and is worth every penny,to my son playing games on it.Summer months are spent outside as much as possible,holidays etc but I still come home jump into bed and guess what ,Istick on my beovision or listen to beolabs.That is what most people my age that I know do.I do not know any man my age who des not dream of having a man cave with cinema etc and a garage with all the toys and bikes.
Its about time management you can enjoy everything in life indoors and out,unfortunately a home without a tv is not the same.
ps Paul I go to the gym every morning at 6am when my family are still in bed,and guess what the beovision is back on for the news before work.
bayerische: Paul W: Seriously guys, 'normal people' either can't afford B&O products or simply like my friends, prefer the great outdoors - most of my friends spent their time mountain biking, boating, climbing, surfing, playing basketball and training at the gym. They spent their money on holidays etc. Some classify expensive products like B&O as aimed at highly materialistic people and pretentious whilst when I mentioned people buying the TVs at the prices, my friends thought it was very sad to spend that amount 'watching TV' and not having a life! That's how healthy, young, active friends tend to view it. Most have BOSE iPhone docks or bluetooth streamers. A Danish friend at the gym said that it was a brand that 'his father would buy, not him'. You need new friends.
He doesn't need new friends.
His friends are the perfect target group for B&O Play products - not for the Bang & Olufsen products.
But they might be in ten years time.
Puncher: Talking is not enough, you have to hear what is said in return!
'communicating with' normally includes 'hear what is said in return'
At least to me
Millemissen: Puncher: Talking is not enough, you have to hear what is said in return! 'communicating with' normally includes 'hear what is said in return' At least to me MM
To be honest your definition of "communicating" is mostly talking and not listening.
Here we go again!
Have a cigar.
Millemissen how is Paul w and his friends the target age group for beoplay and not bang&olufsen products?
i am the same age mid 30s and have no interest or desire for beoplay.People in offices doing research, think that someone older has more disposable income than someone younger so they are there market,it's nonsense.
I sell more range rovers to 25-35 yr olds than 45-65 yr olds,as a lot of the younger ones doing well like to spend it,were as the older are tighter with their money.
Your more likely to see the younger age group buying flash cars,watches,gadgets etc all the time and upgrading than you do older ones who buy them and keep them for years as they have nothing to prove.
The people I associate with are all ages and they all like the good things in life,be it cars,hifis,tvs holidays etc some can afford it comfortably some are in debt but it's their choice.
I guess this has not so much with income to do. It has more with preferences to do - and with style of life..
But no rule without exeptions - you seem to be one of them.
A lot of people are making some very astute points about demographics, perceptions, and value.
The issue the way I see it is, what was once something that was valued and respected to last a decade or longer, is now a "disposable" product. That metaphysical characteristic attachment to televisions, music players, entertainment is a lot more difficult to detach once it is connected.
Electronics aren't seen as "investment" anymore. You don't invest in a television, you buy one, and then buy the next one. Watches and other similar items are generally "accepted" as investments, even by people who wouldn't buy them as such.
Again: perception.
Yes, price has a lot to do with it, but if B&O stores weren't stuffy and seemingly (however false) unwelcoming to the general passerby, they may not have the ability to change that perceptions.
Champagne and caviar are not what "normal" people enjoy. Maybe the "hook" for B&O is to get "normal people" to buy in (pardon the pun), to the core values. In that respect, I think B&O Play was / is geared as the gateway drug to bigger investments.
FYI, I'm really enjoying reading everyone's opinions, and the passion we all have for the brand.
There's no one right answer, it is a combination of the economics of the world, value systems, technology, and variables we haven't even thought of.
Aston Martin sales could double sales based on cash influx
Maybe their investors could look to the car's dashboards for another company in need...
I think it's all perception isn't it. A lot of 'new money' are motivated by material products and indeed greed whereas that doesn't interest people who enjoy nature and the great outdoors more. Everyone here have real valid points and everyone has great ideas. Certainly when I was 18 I had more money to spend on hifi than say now in my 30s because I have houses, car and holidays along with maybe 15 more hobbies than I had when I was 18. Butch made me smile about Range Rovers. To me they are the most uneducated car an idiot could drive - they show the driver couldn't give a damn about the environment, pedestrians and reek of drug dealer - but strangely some fool sees it as a status symbol for their wag wannabes - again perception.
I certainly do not think B&O Play is an introduction to BANG&OLUFSEN in terms of hoping they will buy later on. In marketing we were always thought the horrible phrase 'cradle to the grave' but being honest, I don't think that applies to any brand any more!
Anyway, very interesting topic that we'll be arguing about in 10 years time no doubt when B&O is on its 50th bail out :)
Paul W: I think it's all perception isn't it. A lot of 'new money' are motivated by material products and indeed greed whereas that doesn't interest people who enjoy nature and the great outdoors more. Everyone here have real valid points and everyone has great ideas. Certainly when I was 18 I had more money to spend on hifi than say now in my 30s because I have houses, car and holidays along with maybe 15 more hobbies than I had when I was 18. Butch made me smile about Range Rovers. To me they are the most uneducated car an idiot could drive - they show the driver couldn't give a damn about the environment, pedestrians and reek of drug dealer - but strangely some fool sees it as a status symbol for their wag wannabes - again perception. I certainly do not think B&O Play is an introduction to BANG&OLUFSEN in terms of hoping they will buy later on. In marketing we were always thought the horrible phrase 'cradle to the grave' but being honest, I don't think that applies to any brand any more! Anyway, very interesting topic that we'll be arguing about in 10 years time no doubt when B&O is on its 50th bail out :)
It's true that different age demographics may have different aspirations, and different values as to what they think is 'cool' to spend money on.
On the other hand, there are some people who just like quality of design, materials and engineering and will seek out such products.
I would guess that some of your friends spend a small fortune on quality sporting goods, outdoor goods and the like to say nothing of expensive (quality) holidays?
I'm a returning recreational camper; thus far I've imported to Australia one Danish Outwell tent (which are otherwise unavailable here), with more to come.
This has nothing to do with how old I am, but rather that I appreciate and seek out design and materials quality in the things I buy, and will save and spend to get what I want wherever possible.
I must be doing something wrong, as 2 ½ years in to my own real life B&O experience, I remain delighted as ever, with perhaps the most well rounded, best engineered AV product I've ever owned in the near 40 odd years I've been involved in audio and AV as a hobby.
Just before Xmas, I had the opportunity to hear Naim Audio's (now owned by the Focal group, in turn owned by a French investment bank) 'statement' amplifier, along with Naim sources, rack, pre-amplfication, and a pair of their Ovator 600 speakers.
It was a truly excellent 2 channel stereo system - one of the very best I've ever heard.
But then, it didn't 'do' anything that say a Krell amplifier + B&W 800D's wouldn't do, and if authenticity to the musical event was the criteria, then, unless you feel a large headphone, upfront presentation is what live music is about, it was not really convincing - it was still 'just' an excellent HiFi, but not one that could convince one to suspend disbelief such that one might feel one was listening to live performance - the spatial perspectives were totally wrong for a start.
I'll be deeply disappointed if B&O gets sold off to some Asian conglomerate - I hope not - and with respect, some here don't appear to appreciate just how good B&O is from an audiophile perspective.
That the Naim Statement amplifiers asking price was/is $250,000.00 Australian dollars, and that the total system price as heard was $350,000.00 Australian dollars, and yet, in musical terms, could not equal, let alone better a pair of Beolab 5's says an awful lot.
Yes, I'm biased, but I also speak as a trained classical musician, who knows his music and his instruments.
Hifi audiophile obsessives be damned, B&O make some of the best kit on the planet, and I for one can only wish them well through this most difficult time.
With respect and kind regards
John..
Paul w the only people I here comment about range rovers being crude or driven by idiots have either never driven one or are bitter that they are not in the position to afford one.
They are the best luxury suv on the road,and with fuel economy and emissions improving all the time,they have less of a carbon footprint than a Toyota prius as the battery going half way round the world before it's installed.
Its funny the same kind of person would say b&o is overpriced,and money doesn't buy happiness.I would rather drive a rangerover than a Audi A3 as its my choice.i take it you know drug dealers who drive range rovers to back up your statement?I sell them for a living and know my customers,that statement was so lame Paul,you comment on a lifestyle you know nothing about.
You should get a job for green peace.
I'd like a Range Rover. I just can't afford one :-) I saw some amazing videos of people taking their Rangies off road and they are really known for their offroad ability and their on road prowess. People at that price range don't have to worry about petrol prices, etc, but thats the same of S Class, et al. That being said, i would love a BMW i3 with B&O stereo if its offered.
I would love to take one off road and try that amazing suspension and the raising and lowering!
emilos:Please put a link to a Panasonic 55" 4K screen for 1/5 the price And what about the surround decoder ? But first just find the screen!
Aussie Michael:I'd like a Range Rover. I just can't afford one :-) I saw some amazing videos of people taking their Rangies off road and they are really known for their offroad ability and their on road prowess. People at that price range don't have to worry about petrol prices, etc, but thats the same of S Class, et al. That being said, i would love a BMW i3 with B&O stereo if its offered. I would love to take one off road and try that amazing suspension and the raising and lowering!
Raeuber: emilos: Please put a link to a Panasonic 55" 4K screen for 1/5 the price And what about the surround decoder ? But first just find the screen! Not a Pana, but a Samsung: http://www.my-solution.de/index.php?show=quicksearch&quicksearch=17489&click_count=4&Artikel_ID=17489&details=17489 Price is 1.249 EUR, less than 1/5 the price of an Avant.
emilos: Please put a link to a Panasonic 55" 4K screen for 1/5 the price And what about the surround decoder ? But first just find the screen!
Great Raeuber nice find.
So we have these two televisions.
Do you honest think that you get the same possibilities with these products?
So my first question, do you think you compare a BMW/Mercedes or a BMW with full equipment/a standart Mercedes?
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
@emilos
I like your avatar
Paul W:To me they are the most uneducated car an idiot could drive - they show the driver couldn't give a damn about the environment, pedestrians and reek of drug dealer - but strangely some fool sees it as a status symbol for their wag wannabes - again perception.
Wow, that's some perception. I used to have a Range Rover and I can assure you I am not uneducated, nor am I a drug dealer (although I did once give a work colleague some Paracetamol when he had a headache, so maybe that's open to interpretation!). I do care about the environment, which is why mine was petrol-powered and not diesel and I bought it not for its status or to show off, but because I genuinely think it is one of the best cars ever made and i had wanted one since I was about 12 years old. It suited the muddy country lanes where we live and it rescued many people during the bad snow we had a few years back.
Unfortunately, mine was an older one and it eventually started to succumb to the good old tin-worm, so I sold it. I've now been a year without it, I have missed it every day and i am currently contemplating buying another.
As to B&O, I really am at a loss as to see where they go. In audio terms, thirty years ago, they made turntables, cassette decks and compact disc players that rivalled the best. Yes, they have moved with the times and embraced streaming and digital music, but the drive for style and convenience seems to have lost the simultaneous drive for sound quality, in my eyes. To all those people who have said B&O were "all style and no substance" I have always been easily able to argue robustly that this was not the case, and beneath their stylish exteriors was some truly impressive engineering giving great sound quality. To be honest, I am finding it more and more difficult to defend this position now. Where is that high end digital music player that even an audiophile would be proud to own and would easily integrate with a non B&O system? Heck, there are now more BeoPlay sound systems than 'proper' B&O ones!
Equally, some of our friends were amazed when we paid thousands for an original Avant television around 12 years ago, but we bought it because nothing came anywhere near it in terms of sound or picture quality. Last year, our quest for a new television ended with us buying a Samsung rather than a new Avant, because nether my wife nor I felt that its sound quality was especially stunning and it gave a picture that was maybe just a tiny bit better than the Samsung but for over £5000 more! Finally, my futile experiences in trying to have an item repaired that had only been discontinued fairly recently (a Beo 5 remote) annoyed me greatly and I ended up giving up on it and selling it.
I really want B&O to survive. They are an icon to me - always have been and always will be but I genuinely feel that they have lost their way a little. I truly hope they find it again.
Common Michael, you Aussies know what makes to get when reliability counts!
Quote
A Kia or hyundai?
People taint brands due to their past,the all new range rover has numerous awards and is very reliable and well made ,it looks better,drives better,residuals are better than any nissan patrol,landrover only make 4wd the heritage and expertise counts.
Look at skoda now since they are part of VAG great investment by the right comapny can achieve wonders for a brand JLR sales figures are through the roof,the cars are better made and more reliable since TATA cashflow,and still built in uk.
I hope someone like TATA invest into B&O and push the heritage,move production back to struer and keep designing individual goods that look and perform well.People still choose landrover when their is loads of competition with better warranties and spec,and cheaper.B&o should follow suit.
When a brand concentrates on one segment great things can be achieved be it cars,audio etc.
B&O has done a very bad job of telling their brand story to the world. Failing to get this right has resulted in almost non-existent recruitment of new customers to the brand together with a loss of the added value that good brand communication provides.
For decades, and with very few exceptions, brand communication has consisted of new-product info, consisting of a photo of the product and a logo. Thus actually adding fuel to the fire of those who claim B&O is style over substance. It was a complete mystery to me why the brand seemed to be allergic to its history in telling its brand story - a mystery until I actually got "on the inside" at Struer, and I found out that Lewis wanted to disappear Jensen's contributions. That dissonance is something that a strong and focused brand leadership would have dismissed as nonsense.
A non-adept to the brand, passing by a store and looking inside, would see a couple of men in suits surrounded by new hardware, but would get absolutely no idea of where the brand was coming from, what it had achieved or where it was headed. Those components contribute strongly to value perceptions. Look at LVMH communication, across all its brands -- you won't find a single instance where the brand history isn't proudly displayed. (Sometimes they even make some of it up, something B&O wouldn't have had to do.)
At some point, probably in the mid-1990s, B&O management lost confidence in its own brand, and became product focused instead of brand story inspired. And that showed in everything B&O subsequently did. Management is on record as stating B&O survived because enough people were locked in to Masterlink to make them unable to jump to another setup - but relying on that locked-in group of customers to maintain the company was a dead end.
At one point in the early 2000s, there were over 800 B1 stores, in excellent locations around the world. Why those stores saw very little store traffic speaks to what I'm writing above. If you don't believe in your own brand story, you won't create any brand energy. Ten years ago, when I got approval from B&O to land some collaborators for the brand, in order to try and do something about this, everybody I got in touch with were pleased to hear from B&O and wanted to collaborate: world class musicians, concert halls, symphony orchestras, film producers, etc. They all wanted to be associated with the brand and work with it for mutual benefit. I wonder whether that's still the case?
It really comes down to a lot of missed opportunities, and a mistaken assumption that shallow appeals to the uninformed conspicuous consumption luxury segment would provide a solution. But the conspicuous consumption focus only added more fuel to the style over substance fire. Over 800 B1 stores represented an enormous communication opportunity, one-on-one interaction with existing and prospective buyers. Instead you got the impression, both from the actual stores and the photography of same by B&O, that they were dead zones, where nothing happened.
Maybe B&O was too set in its ways to change course, but it truly is mystifying, given how willing the company was to lead the way in earlier periods of its development. The strange thing is that it wasn't for lack of R&D - some great work was being carried out in both audio and video. But there was no product coherence, and product interaction became more complicated over time, instead of simpler. Simplicity of interaction was what made B&O attractive in the first place - just look at the threads here about programming remotes to understand where that went out the window.
It's easy to criticize in hindsight, but there were those at Struer who wanted to make the leap to the next generation of interaction, over WiFi and easily integrated with 3rd party hardware. There are 1.3 million Android apps now, and 1.2 million iOS apps. Failing to understand that you couldn't "in-house" develop software that could compete with what outsiders were doing for Android and Apple for "free," must count as a major strategic blunder.
In the end, being the guy with the AV-setup that was almost impossible to use with ease (BeoMedia 1), wasn't that much fun, was it? Particularly not when your kids seemed to be able to do wonders with their non-B&O hardware, in comparison.
Thus - B&O didn't believe in its own performance, which was excellent; it didn't continue its heritage of easy interaction; and it no longer gave owners the impression that they were in the vanguard of what was possible in using playback sources (both hard media and web-media).The fact that the brand as a result finds itself struggling was a given.
If you don't believe in your own brand story, then you won't take pride in it. Why should consumers then feel any different about B&O than you do? Imagine Porsche never referring to its iconic models throughout its history, or not showing to the brand lineage these exemplify. Why aren't the B&O stores (and communication) proudly displaying the same, either through physical iconic products or posters/stories of the same?
Soundproof, thank you for providing history and insights into why B&O is in the position that it currently finds itself in. I find myself with many many questions about a myriad of topics you've brought up, but one really sticks out to my geeky bent:
soundproof: It's easy to criticize in hindsight, but there were those at Struer who wanted to make the leap to the next generation of interaction, over WiFi and easily integrated with 3rd party hardware. There are 1.3 million Android apps now, and 1.2 million iOS apps. Failing to understand that you couldn't "in-house" develop software that could compete with what outsiders were doing for Android and Apple for "free," must count as a major strategic blunder.
What was the rationale that silenced those individuals you mention, or even justified the direction B&O took? (If you know, or care to hypothesize). I'm sure [I hope] these conversations are going on in B&O boardrooms at this very moment, as they try to navigate into smoother waters.
Thank you again for a most, engaging post.
Sal:Thank you again for a most, engaging post.
Ditto.
Another question, one might ask:
What pile of sh#t this discussion.
When B&o is down and out, this negativity stops also.
One may and can have criticts on B&o and their products, but for the moment one would expect they would, in general, have some support or at least some compassion, esspesial on this forum!
We should not discount what has happened, there are valuable lessons there, still to be learned.
Many among this community have watched over the last 10 years and commented here upon the steady decline, sadly for most of those, it hasn't come as a surprise!
There have been several new CEO's and new starts, and still the decline.
During all that time, there have been people telling us "it's not a problem that the product prices increase year on year", "of course the BV7 is worth 5x the price of competitors", "the companies business isn't in the little people, it's in $100,000 installations" and a multitude of other platitudes. And there's always been the great promise of the next new product (which was due in xxx but is delayed by xx months) to save the day and revive the companies fortunes and yet here we are!
The products they could sell and the people they could sell to have both faded into the ether, you now have to start from ground zero persuading a lot of people who have never heard of you to part with 4500 Euro for a pair of BL18's etc.
It's a very steep uphill challenge, and should be recognised as such.
@Puncher
True words
But it is one's choice
And it is one's money
But if B&o is not the choice (anymore), choose something different.......... simple as that
Carolpa: But if B&o is not the choice (anymore), choose something different.......... simple as that
But that's exactly the point, that's what everyone else is doing, there are nowhere near enough people wanting and willing to buy what they have to offer!