ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I'm not sure if anyone in Struer reads this forum. Generally it's a terrible idea to have your products made in China. But if you really have to, make sure you OWN the factory and have people there 24/7. Otherwise you are almost guaranteed a "night shift" behind your back.
This is a site in China selling night shift BeoPlay A2 at 1699RMB (238 Euro).
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.19.omgCov&id=43232604446&ns=1&abbucket=10#detail
The Chinese description says "US stock, no packaging". The speaker is shipped in a generic shipping box, with no user manual or fancy pamphlets (because these are printed in another factory). To disguise its "night shift" origin and not to raise suspicion, the seller describe it as US stock, as most mainland Chinese believe things in the US are a lot cheaper.
"Night shift" is a practice in China where the factory produces more units, out of contract, without the other party knowing. These are then sold at discounted prices by the factory via a number of channels including online auction sites. B&O gets no money from these sales, and as a result their own sale suffers. B&O pays the R&D, the designers, the marketing and all the technique know how, only to have the factory ripping the rewards by making units behind their back.
In any other country, this would sound unbelievable. But in China, it is almost guaranteed, UNLESS you have total and constant control over the factory floor. So people in Struer, if you are reading this, send people to China and have them sleep in the factory. Or better yet, make your products somewhere else where laws are taken more seriously.
(Image taken from the auction site on fair use basis)
If tis is True,this Should be forwarded to B&O Sales or whatever to make them aware of whats going on!
This is from another seller
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.60.lhTY0C&id=43582160761&ns=1&abbucket=10#detail
This one claims to be "Hong Kong official stock, no packaging", as people in China believe things in Hong Kong are a lot cheaper. Believe me I'm in Hong Kong, and this thing is selling for HK$3398 (383,00 euro) everywhere. The seller couldn't explain why there is no user manual or box. According to a feedback left by a buyer on that site, the charger is "not original", so I guess the charger is made in another factory as well.
Same in Thailand, tons of gear available throughout the country, I visit an outlet place regularly which is in the middle of nowhere and its full of Ikea crockery at a fraction of the cost so I presume that's made here also, pretty standard practice in Asia
so wrong on one level but inventive on another....
anyone nighshifting at Riveria boats ??
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
+1 for the boat please Mark.
It's shocking and horrifying but that's what happens when you out source - you lose control. This doesn't surprise me as I train at a university gym and the gym is full of Masters Business students - all from China. When I talk to them and we compare facts, they all think that this is normal. They say that everyone uses pirated software including state owned offices. They say that everything is pitted and they think that, that is 'normal'. One also claimed that 'the rich' are related to the government whilst he said that because he has a Masters Degree, it will enable him to get a job that will literally just pay enough for food. He said that it's quite common for people to go through the rubbish bins on an evening in order to eat! Also when i asked them about environmental awareness and protecting the environment, they'd never heard of that but thought that 'it was a lovely idea.'
This picture that I had painted to me was far far far from the 'rich people' picture in China that Tue and his Management paint at BANG&OLUFSEN.
I was shocked but really saddened at the same time as these were really lovely young people that were absolutely loving their 'freedom' here in the UK. They also said that they'll really miss YouTube and Facebook when they return to China.
or else these are rip off copies and do not originate from the same factory at all, in which case it would happen even if the originals were made in Struer!
As for going through rubbish bins, I suggest you visit the rear of any supermarket or fast food establishment in most UK cities late at night!
Ban boring signatures!
This is common practice in China... very dumb from B&O and Tue if they/he did NOT think about it.
This is another threat that can damage the brand...
Waiting for an official comment from Struer on this issue.
However, as I've said before - it was wise, that the board/the CEO years ago decided to build their own factory in the Czech Rep.
Without that we would probably see much more B&O products 'Made in China' now - and more nightshift-products as well, I suppose.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Why wouldn't this be true? It's a well known fact in China.
I'm sure B&O knows about the problem too, but I'm not sure if they're powerful enough to take control over the situation... Would be interesting to know what factory in China makes these B&O products...
Too long to list....
I have a customer who works for Ford Motor Company. Whenever they outsource a part to a Chinese manufacturer at the quotation stage they send a man with the part and instruct him NOT to let it out his sight for one single second.
He then proceeded to tell me stories where certain parts were photographed in detail whilst the employee had popped to the toilet and the very same part was on the new version of a Chinese manufactured vehicle within months.
He also told me that it was common and accepted practice in China - and if someone lets you loose on their product, trusting you not to copy it, you're a fool who deserves to be ripped off.
What seems very wrong to us is perfectly acceptable in China. It's a culture thing, clearly.
Lee
Could this be a good thing?
Nobody counterfits a shitty product.
The Beoplay A2 is a fairly cheap product, and if the earnings per unit is low anyways, having good quality counterfits on the market will make more people see and know about the product.
When the brand gets more known, simply stop china-productions and move it back to CR.
Now you have a brand that is known that is not counterfited anymore :)
"You think we can slap some oak on this thing?"
Totally agree with Lee's comments these comments ARE IDENTICAL to what these young Masters Students from China have told me. I was horrified but they thought it was perfectly normal in China. There are fake BMW X5 jeeps over there etc! If B&O wanted to save money with PLAY why didn't they manufacture from their own factory in Eastern Europe?
Hi Leo,
Counterfeit ruins brands. Look at Louis Vuitton. It's very hard to spot the difference between a £3000 handbag LV logo'd one and the £20 one. It's very very bad news! It devalues the brand and makes it worthless over night.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
leosgonewild: Could this be a good thing? Nobody counterfits a shitty product. The Beoplay A2 is a fairly cheap product, and if the earnings per unit is low anyways, having good quality counterfits on the market will make more people see and know about the product. When the brand gets more known, simply stop china-productions and move it back to CR. Now you have a brand that is known that is not counterfited anymore :)
Problem is, this isn't "counterfeit" it's a genuine B&O, it just goes into another box at the end of the production line. Looser is B&O. Knockoff products are a different thing.
Ha!
They couldn't copy Santa! We have him up in Lapland!
Duplicate
If its a "nightshift" operation why have they gone to the bother of providing different packaging, surely they'd use the same packaging as the production unit! I still think someone other than the authorized manufacturer is ripping it off, I agree this is common and that there is little you can do to stop it however, this is not a reason not to manufacture in China. If they want to rip it off they can buy a European manufactured model and copy it just the same!
Years ago we saw the start of fake A8 headphones, at the beginning there were visible details to tell them apart, eventually there were none. They were copies rather than misappropriated originals.
BeoSin: According to a feedback left by a buyer on that site, the charger is "not original", so I guess the charger is made in another factory as well
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
It does say B&O now.
Totally agree with you Michael. It's B&O which means attention to detail to the finest detail! I was horrified when I saw the charger to the A3 a few year back. A big generic cheap after market thing. I really expect B&O to be on par with Apple on that count. Certainly here in the UK, the iPhone charger is a lovely discreet piece of nice design!
But that's a sticker, a generic charger it is, on the other hand why wouldn't it be.
Who'll be the first to buy one - and test it against 'the real thing'?
Paul W: Totally agree with you Michael. It's B&O which means attention to detail to the finest detail! I was horrified when I saw the charger to the A3 a few year back. A big generic cheap after market thing. I really expect B&O to be on par with Apple on that count. Certainly here in the UK, the iPhone charger is a lovely discreet piece of nice design!
The A3 charger is an all-in-one plug with a swivel so that it can turn at any angle to the socket. 100x40x36mm. Made by Qiw. Quite a clever design.
It can't really be compared with the tiny output iPhone charging plug.
Graham
I have always wondered what the "real" cost difference is taking in to account the "long term" effect having items manufactured in China. Apart from the normal focus on quality and having your intellectual property stolen there must become a tipping point where shipping + materials + overheads(wages etc) climb as their economy and society grows.
Can manufacturing in China now be good for manufacturing in the future ?
vikinger:The A3 charger is an all-in-one plug with a swivel so that it can turn at any angle to the socket. 100x40x36mm. Made by Qiw. Quite a clever design. It can't really be compared with the tiny output iPhone charging plug. Graham
BeoNut since '75
Mark:I have always wondered what the "real" cost difference is taking in to account the "long term" effect having items manufactured in China. Apart from the normal focus on quality and having your intellectual property stolen there must become a tipping point where shipping + materials + overheads(wages etc) climb as their economy and society grows. Can manufacturing in China now be good for manufacturing in the future ? we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
Either these are packaged at a different place, or the guy running the night shift had no access to the packagings.
On the other hand, if someone bothered to copy it, making all the moulds and stuff, they'd be more likely to fake the packaging as well.
We are most likely not looking at counterfeits, but rather unauthorised production. Yes everything can be counterfeited, but it doesn't mean there is always an economic incentive to do so. Most of the tech products are in fact NOT counterfeited because the cost of counterfeiting is too high for a low volume production. Moulding is prohibitively expensive, so is making the necessary customised circuit board and getting a contract for the necessary chips. Some of the tech products, such as DSLRs and quality lenses are almost NEVER counterfeited due to forbiddingly high cost of developing the parts and optics.
So it comes back to the question - should B&O make products in China? I think they shouldn't given that they are not a super popular mainstream consumer brand like Apple or Beats. They simply don't have the resource to be in total control of the factory, therefore unauthorised production is inevitable.
This particular auction site has been in the spotlight recently due to its high profile IPO (Alibaba) and the possible class action by US investors due to its failure to disclose the counterfeit situation.
The chairman (Jack Ma) responded by saying that "these are not fake products, they're just web products". https://www.techinasia.com/jack-ma-taobao-fake-products-web-products/
I think what he really meant is that his site is full of night shift products - things that are made in the same factory using genuine parts, without authorisation. Are they fake products? No. However they are not genuine either, as they have never been approved for production.