ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello!
I am considering getting either a new BeoPlay V1-40 or a used BV7-40 (Mark 3), as they are at a similar price point.
My primary interest is music, and the occasional movie. I am not a huge TV watcher, but I think the BV7 is a beautiful design that I would love to look at every day, even if it is off. As long as I can play CDs and plug in a iPod, I will be happy. Of course the BeoPlay is a much smarter system optimised for digital media.
I've heard the Mk3's picture is very dark - is this a model to avoid?
Obviously I will check them out myself and make my own decision, but I was wondering if any B&O experts online had any pearls of wisdom they could share?
Thanks!
Jonathan
Hi, once upon a time I loved the BV7 design - now it seems heavy to me ... but I don't own one, my comparison is based on having seen it it the stores since the day it was launched.
Given your music requirement, I think the key things to consider are:
a) what speaker comes with the BV7 you are looking at ... if none, then I would vote for the future ... if only a centre speaker, it would entirely depend upon the quality of that speaker - and that is the question that you should be asking e.g. is a 7.4 better etc.
b) is there a blu-ray player/ DVD player in the BV7 ? that could influence one in terms of quality of video and/or audio as well as the integrated operation look&feel, unless you already have another player in which cue again I would vote for the future (i.e. the V1)
c) finally there is the question of future-proofing your investment ... I am fairly confident that as digital music evolves, and that when you at some point get a wireless media server, the V1 platform will provide you better flexibility and support for evolving standards
All in all I would be leaning to the V1 ... on the other hand the BV7's build quality :-) the V1's ease of access to connectors :-) the BV7's variety of connectors :-) ... hmmm all difficult secondary considerations.
Nett nett ... check out the BV7's speakers from an audio perspective, and then balance that by trying to project what your needs may be like in 2 years from now, and then make the decision
BeoNut since '75
I wouldn't get a used BV7-40 MKIII. This is fairly "old" now for an LCD screen, resulted in dark/gloomy picture and I can't tell you how much of an upgrade the MKIV was (in terms of picture quality), and that was three years ago now? Anyway, the point is, you'll be spending a lot of money and obtaining a fairly average (or below average if it's an early MKIII) picture, compared to today's standards. The V1 will leave it standing.
A BV7-40 MKIV is a much better option, if you can find one of these second hand. There was very little difference between my MKIV which I upgraded to a BV10-46 in December 2011. The BV10-46 edges it, but only just. Very marginal.
If you can get a BV7-40 MKIV, I'd go for this TV if you love the design. The audio is superb with a BL 7.2. Far better than a V1 or BV10. However, the BV7 is a big cumbersome beast and that's not to everyone's liking.
with moxxey and my replies you have the framework for making a good decision !
my only 3rd hand thought was to consider future resale values if you want to take moxxey's approach of bi-annual upgrades to stay ahead of technology's evolution ... hard to predict the V1's resale value, but if you do pick up a MKiv as moxxey recommends, I suspect you could have a more enduring re-investment option
Hi Ed,
The BV7 I'm looking at has a 7-1 speaker (I know, strange choice but it probably works well). I have BeoLab 8000s/6000s/2.
I know what you mean about the BV7-40s bulk. I'm sure it will be phased out before long and a couple of years down the line I could find I have a very expensive paperweight, and carrying it from one flat to another isn't going to be fun.
I guess I was thinking about residual value too, but these probably won't be too different....
I think I have just answered my own question. I will check out a V1!
Thanks guys - you may well have saved me a very expensive mistake there!
jkhamler:I will check out a V1!
no worries :-)
looks like the first review is in: http://www.hdtv-news.com/reviews/beoplay-v1-review/
It does seem great. Not that I'm questioning the value, as I'm sure it is superbly engineered and built, but still 2 and a half grand is alot for me to spend on a TV.... I would hate for the V2 to make it obsolete in a few months...
But considering I've already got the speakers and I can sell the BeoCenter 2, it wouldn't cost THAT much...
In my opinion the key consideration is this; The V1 is a very good TV with above market average sound. The TV itself is a cut above what you can purchase from the other premium offerings for the market leaders, especially in relation to sound quality. But its just a TV and its key competitor is due later this year from Apple, at which point it'll feel very old in just a matter of months and not very 'special' any longer.
The BV7 on the other hand is a complete media solution. The sound quality and speaker combinations make it your HIFI. The materials and speaker combinations make it a standout item in your living room and not just a TV - its feels and looks special, regardless of the technology changes. Connect a BV7 with some second-hand 8000's and a BeoLab 2 and it becomes a cinema. These are experiences the V1 will never deliver, because it was designed to be differentiated player in a crowded mainstream TV market.
I don't agree with Moxxey's input on the MKIII. You'll find it less bright than current panels due to the LED backlighting used in current models for sure. But on mainstream TV's that feature this technology, they all feature a Movie mode that is designed to turn down this brightness to normal levels - negating the apparent benefit. I've had a MKIII and it featured a great picture - very natural and the closest on natural tones and saturation. Blacks could be better. But LED TV's bleed light from the edges and frequently feature excessive saturation. If picture is paramount then look at a plasma. Only problems with the BV7, regardless of MK3, 4, 5 is the software is temperamental - which is the same on all models (not 3D).
In summary; look beyond just the picture quality as a simple criteria and you'll find B&O products that deliver experiences whenever you play your favourite band or watch that next thriller.
mawheele: I don't agree with Moxxey's input on the MKIII. You'll find it less bright...
I don't agree with Moxxey's input on the MKIII. You'll find it less bright...
Actually, some movies and PS3 games were unwatchable/unplayable and I had friends state that they were very surprised how poor the MKIII was at displaying shades of grey or black. Was just too dark. MKIV was a revelation in comparison.
So, sure, you don't have to agree, but it would be folly to encourage someone to buy a 3-year-old BV7-40 MKIII if you compare the picture to a V1-40. There's no comparison.
Telling someone to look beyond picture quality - probably the primary reason for having any TV - is, well, barely worth a comment. Shocking.
However, my argument wasn't to get the V1, it was to get a MKIV, if you read this through carefully? My argument is that a MKIV will be a relatively low-cost additional upgrade from the MKIII. Remember it's two revisions old now, so shouldn't be too expensive in the pre-loved market.
mawheele:But its just a TV and its key competitor is due later this year from Apple, at which point it'll feel very old in just a matter of months and not very 'special' any longer.
The difficulty here is surmising what Apple may or may not bring to the market (rumours of an Apple TV abound, but that is all they are, rumours and speculation) and how will it be a game changing device such as to make a V1 feel 'old' and not very 'special'.
Will it have an high quality active speaker array, capable of being the centre channel in an AV setup?
Will it have an state of the art surround sound processor on board?
It might, but I'd be very surprised if it did.
More likely I'd feel, would be that they will build on their current market offerings such as Siri voice integration and tighter integration with iTunes and iCloud.
Maybe, they might have some new contracts in the wings with movie studios to do to movies what iTunes did to music as far as access is concerned.
One would likely have instant easy access to Skype, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Netflix et al, but in a more intuitive easy manner as regards the user interface.
But as far as offering something that would be the centrepiece of an AV system - I'm less sure - integrated AV/home-theatre is not really an Apple area - which is not to say that they might try and take a leaf out of B&O's book and deliver something that offers more for less - always a possibility, but not very likely IMHO.
I'd say they'd be marketing an upmarket product to the mainstream market, with tight integration with apple computers and services, dressed in a pretty box and with an highly intuitive user interface, rather than any AV solution for home-theatre such as B&O are offering.
But I could be wrong!... nothing is set in stone, and nobody really knows what Apple will do until it happens
Best Regards
John..
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:I get the feeling that when it arrives, and just like the IPod/IPhone/IPad it will completely change how we use a format like AV. History tells us so.
History tells us so.
Chris, you are probably right and in some ways (i.e. better access to global content) I hope you are right.
But there are many valuable listening and viewing hours to be enjoyed between now and when Apple may finally get to release their TV.
Also let us not fall into the assumption that it will be a simultaneous global release - remember SJ described the TV world as "balkanised". So I am sure they will go for the low hanging fruit first = the American market.
On the other hand, if we wait 2 weeks for the upcoming Apple WWDC to conclude, we all may have some fresh rumours / insights to chew over.
moxxey: mawheele: I don't agree with Moxxey's input on the MKIII. You'll find it less bright... Actually, some movies and PS3 games were unwatchable/unplayable and I had friends state that they were very surprised how poor the MKIII was at displaying shades of grey or black. Was just too dark. MKIV was a revelation in comparison.
Good evening,
As I currently own the MkIII, I know why the picture was too dark when playing games or movies on the PS3 in your case. The early firmware revisions of the BV7 set the RGB mapping to 0-255 for each color when the PS3 was connected. The later revisions sets it to 16-255 (the standard for digital TV). The PS3 settings have to be changed accordingly to avoid black level crush. There is a test grey scale pattern available on the web as a JPEG image that can be copied on the PS3 to check the settings. A mismatch between the TV and the PS3 causes an incorrect grey scale.
Anyway, this no longer applicable for you as you upgraded your TV and the newer revisions had their settings right. But, it is a good thing to know for all PS3 owners.
Best regards,
Jean
There have been some interesting thoughts in this thread!
Personally, I am still leaning towards the BV7 because of its presence, design and sound.
No matter how good the V1's interface is, I'm sure I'd still rather just have my Macbook wired into the Aux (or wireless via a streaming app) and have Spotify, iTunes etc. at my fingertips rather than navigate an inevitably more clunky on-screen UI. Plus I like CDs and the in built DVD player would be handy for this.
I am always very hesitant to buy expensive new technological products as the depreciation is a killer. The BV7 has been around for so long and it's not 'new' technology, so I'm sure going for a well looked after Mk3 model around £3k cannot result in too much depreciation....
The dark picture is a bit of an issue however - I will go and see it with my own eyes.
This is the one I am looking at...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bang-and-olufsen-Beovision-speakers-and-more-/200767992373?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Televisions&hash=item2ebeb47235#ht_500wt_903
Ah but then the V1 is so fresh and modern... why am I so terrible at decisions!
(Well the third option is to do neither and save money but where's the fun in that?)
jvezina: As I currently own the MkIII, I know why the picture was too dark when playing games or movies on the PS3 in your case.
As I currently own the MkIII, I know why the picture was too dark when playing games or movies on the PS3 in your case.
On a sidenote when my BV10-46 first arrived, although the picture quality was great, the colours were a bit unbalanced on skin tones. My dealer performed a major software upgrade in February, which completely changed how the audio was managed, plus rebalanced the colours and skin tones are much more natural now. So, yes, B&O do seem to tweak the firmware in future software.
However, I simply had too many sw issues with my BV7-40 MKIII and I'm 99% sure it had the latest sw when I upgraded to the MKIV. It must have been updated 8 times during my ownership.
I'd pick the 7 any day. 4 hdmis not up to date connections ? Just add an apple tv and a mac mini and you've got a stunning piece of kit , I'm an apple fanboy and still think this is an option despite what apple may bring out this year.
From what I've read the apple tv will just be a bigger flatter iMac with no DVD slot.
Flappo:From what I've read the apple tv will just be a bigger flatter iMac with no DVD slot.
and one thing we can be sure of .......... no "a whole bag of hurt" Bluray player either !
moxxey:Telling someone to look beyond picture quality - probably the primary reason for having any TV - is, well, barely worth a comment. Shocking.
Please read the context. Not helpful - just antagonising.
moxxey:So, sure, you don't have to agree, but it would be folly to encourage someone to buy a 3-year-old BV7-40 MKIII if you compare the picture to a V1-40. There's no comparison.
Not at all. Its a fantastic TV. I appreciate you felt that the later brighter panels were more pleasing to your eye's but there are also pitfalls. LED has HUGE light bleed in all four corners which to many eyes often has considerable numbers of people taking their TV's back regardless of brand. To others, like myself - the closeness of the saturation to that of Plasma made the MKIII actually a very strong product.
moxxey: Actually, some movies and PS3 games were unwatchable/unplayable and I had friends state that they were very surprised how poor the MKIII was at displaying shades of grey or black. Was just too dark. MKIV was a revelation in comparison.
Sorry - can't agree - I had a PS3, XBOX360, Wii and Apple TV all hooked up at various times. Games were a treat! Halo all the way. In particular, photo's on the AppleTV were spectacular - very rich in colour depth.
THE MAIN POINT:
The MKIV will of course cost more as you say... but that is already stretching a 2.5k budget which formed the basis for this thread in the first place.
Thanks Mawheele, I appreciate your (seemingly knowledgable and rational) comebacks to those (seemingly biased/opinionated comments) on the BV7-M3!
I want to like the V1, but there's nothing particularly about the look of it that makes me REALLY aspire to own one. Also I know that however good the media player is, it's still going to be clunky compared to using Spotify on a MacBook (which is inevitably what I would use). I just want HDMI ins and 5.1 Powerlink outs.
Maybe I should just wait for used 8-40s to hit the £1500 mark. Can't be too long...
J
jkhamler:Thanks Mawheele, I appreciate your (seemingly knowledgable and rational) comebacks to those (seemingly biased/opinionated comments) on the BV7-M3! I want to like the V1, but there's nothing particularly about the look of it that makes me REALLY aspire to own one. Also I know that however good the media player is, it's still going to be clunky compared to using Spotify on a MacBook (which is inevitably what I would use). I just want HDMI ins and 5.1 Powerlink outs. Maybe I should just wait for used 8-40s to hit the £1500 mark. Can't be too long... J
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
You're right Michael - I think I'm forgetting how big the BV7s are, which I shouldn't having owned a 7-32 for a while (which weighed the same as a small car). I'm sure I would resent its bulk and dated technology pretty soon.
Dude, go for the V1!!! It really does seem that B&O have invested heavily in this wonderful piece of funky plastic. If you don't want to spend what the BV10 costs, then go for something very nearly as nice... the V1!!!
I know I know.... everything is telling me to just go for it (except my slightly over-frugal conscience which tells me to sell my BeoLabs and just use my flatmate's Bravia, but where's the fun in that?!)
Hmmm look at it this way, a B&O is like a piece of art, so OK it may cost a little, but, there's no reason why you shouldn't enjoy it for a good 10 years or so! I think with B&O it's not about keeping up with the Samsung's, the LG's or the SONY's, it's something more than that... a guess it's like having a wife, no matter how old and outdated they get, you still love them ;)
Awwwww Chris don't be so mean on the V1
You're just spoilt because you own what is probably the nicest designed TV to have ever been created! I think the v1 in white looks pretty great!
Like for like, it's like me saying the new Audi A1 looks really fab when you have the Audi R8 ;) i guess!
Paul W: Hmmm look at it this way, a B&O is like a piece of art, so OK it may cost a little, but, there's no reason why you shouldn't enjoy it for a good 10 years or so! I think with B&O it's not about keeping up with the Samsung's, the LG's or the SONY's, it's something more than that... a guess it's like having a wife, no matter how old and outdated they get, you still love them ;)
Hehehe thanks Koning ;)
Hi Paul,
I like that way of looking at it! I got the speakers at bargain prices so my total spend including the new V1 will be £5,000 (including BeoLab 8000s, 6000s and a BL2). In the worst case if I sold the lot I can't imagine I'd lose much in depreciation. And what use is having money in the bank these days?! And I know it would be a killer setup!
(That was my economical business case for buying the TV ;) )
Jon
Jon,
The BL6000 and BL8000 are my absolute favourite loudspeakers ever!!! That'a an elegant set up! I guess my dream beach house would have those speakers! Those speakers will still look amazing in 20 years time!
As I said, with B&O, you have to view it as art and it's not something that needs upgrading every few years. Just enjoy, knowing that you've got some real craftsmanship!
jkhamler:You're right Michael - I think I'm forgetting how big the BV7s are, which I shouldn't having owned a 7-32 for a while (which weighed the same as a small car). I'm sure I would resent its bulk and dated technology pretty soon.
I enjoyed some aspects of this thread, my over-riding concern is that Moxxey got a bit of an unfair bashing. He has strong opinions which he can back-up and is surely entitled to express them in the manner he did on this forum. I don't necessarily agree with all of them but I can see his point(s), just thought it was a little unfair the way he was cast off when he had tried to assist from his perspective.
Taking the above statement, namely
I am picking up my V1 tomorrow. And, whoever says v1 is ugly don't know good design if it hit them in the face.
I would argue that whoever says v1 is not ugly don't know good design if it hit them in the face.
Decisions are usually reached on the balance of opinions from forum members - personally I might have advocated the MK3 but that doesn't make my view right and Moxxey's wrong, just heads-and-tail of the very same coin.
I like the V1. It's an economical choice, with a fresh face. I don't think it was ever intended to compete with the BV7, which I love. But it's priced and designed accordingly. What I like about the V1 is it is showing the world that B&O is fighting back - new video engine, better interface and working with Apple. It's got a superb picture, great sound and looks different. It's a bit like my old Fiat Coupe, some people loved it, some hated it. I naturally loved it - different and polarising. People would talk to me about it, ask questions, give opinions. OK it wasn't for everyone, but at least people admired it in one way or another. I see the V1 in a similar light. It's a brave design, it has some unique features and it's at a price that won't start to force divorce proceedings.
I for one will be purchasing a V1-40 in white. I will also be placing some funky colour strips in the speaker grill, just for a laugh. But most of all, I will be enjoying watching David Attenborough documentarys with a crisp, clear picture, with sound I can enjoy. Not like my flatmates Bravia, which i struggle to hear and require sunglasses to watch.
If I had the choice though, I would go for a BV7-55. Gorgeous. However, for the time being, I will settle for the V1-40 and be very happy with that!
Paul, That was perhaps the best example I have ever heard of what makes B&O special. I am gonna remember that 1! well said!