ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi all,
I am new to B&O and to this forum. Since I will be moving to a new house within the next few months, I am considering to buy a new home entertainment & multiroom system, including, but not limited to, a new TV, a 5.1 sytem and several multiroom speakers. According to my first visit to a B&O store, I am looking at a invest of about 25k-35k EURO. That is - to me - a lot of money, especially when considering that there are so many alternatives like Sonos, Bose Soundtouch etc, which cost less than a third of the price.
But then again, design and usability is very important to me, so the higher asking price may be worth to me.
However, I do have certain concerns regarding the development of B&O, so my first simple question is: would you, if you were to invest that amount of money in a new system, invest in B&O?
Many products I liked on the B&O website apparently have been discontinued and according to my dealer are no longer available, e.g. Beoplay v1 40, Beolab 3500, Beolab 12.1, 12.2 etc. I always did assume, that B&O has a very long-term strategy, but apparently their product life spans have decreased rapidly as well.
Also, I read in the news, that B&O is performing rather poorly, so how safe is it to assume, that they will be around in a few years? Their product portfolio seems to be decreasing.
In the B&O show room, I tested a pair of B&O Lab 18. Beautiful speakers. I was not too impressed with the sound though. I was thinking of getting a pair of 18s with a subwoofer, and a pair of 17's as rear speakers. Would that improve the sound quality, or would you rather get 5 Beolab 12's in combination with a subwoofer?
Last but not least: I haven't discussed the final price, since the configuration is not complete yet. How much of a discount would you expect with a purchase of about 30.000 EUR?
Thanks in advance!
Hi Dasun,
WOW That is indeed a huge amount of money to spend on todays electronics. You mentioned the TV - why don't you start off with a BV11 (and Apple TV at £59 and a Blu Ray player) and maybe add from there. Don't forget to have a home demonstration of speakers that you like such a BL18. They may sound totally different in your home. A BV11 will always look timeless although maybe there's a 4K version around the corner. Important as YouTube is full of 4K sports videos now and SONY camcorders are 4K for under £400 along with GoPro etc and who knows how fast Netflix will move with it. (I've been filming in 4K for 2 years now and it is truly incredible).
10% - 15% discount should be decent discount but don't forget to ask for hidden charges such a wall mounting a TV / hiding cables etc. I get the impression that B&O have a HUGE profit market. Dealers sell the A8 for £850 but Amazon and many others sell it for £580 (Which sound wise is far more realistic).
Sadly most of the design of B&O don't seem to be staying long in the portfolio anymore whether thats the ever changing market OR their lack of one dedicated designer like Jacob or David, I don't know - probably both reasons.
Enjoy your decisions! And have fun!
Welcome to Beoworld!
Don't expect to get any discount on current products unless they are end of line.
B&O have the problem of technologies moving very quickly..... all manufacturers have this issue. Buy what appeals to you: with B&O that will be aesthetics and usability as much as sound and picture.
Read the forum and take your time over choices. Whatever your decision, the technology will be quickly out of date. If you are too concerned about whether B&O will be around long-term then maybe B&O is not for you. There are not too many competitive loudspeaker products elsewhere, but there are many television alternatives you could enhance with B&O speakers if things like motorised stands and in-built excellent sound are not important to you.
Graham
Hello Dasun and welcome! :)
Excellent advice to dig into previous and actual threads - just to get the idea of what B&O users like and dislike.
I am too planning 10+K EUR investment into B&O tech, but after I went into more details I decided to take it easy and step-by-step. Might not be your strategy.
For some recent B&O products I feel like they were a bit rushed to the market, but I still like them very much and will buy versions with "fixed" or "improved" specs. Again, this is very individual so don't let tech specs alone drive your decision.
Loudspeakers I like a lot. BL18 in my opinion sounds wounderful. And even better than that if you add BL19.
And yes, I would (and will) still invest in a B&O system. Liking or not some of the things on some of the products, overall I can say I have great confidence in B&O.
"You think we can slap some oak on this thing?"
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I don't "get" the excitement over B & O TVs and music systems. I have a video projector for TV. I still buy and play records, CDs, DVDs, etc. so I'm not interested in any type of music server. Any torrent downloads are burned to disc. I have an Integra surround sound preamp and Oppo all region CD/DVD/Blu Ray player.
My preamp has a microphone and built-in software to adjust the sound of each surround sound speaker at multiple listening positions. The user can over-ride the settings as desired. I'm not sure B & O systems can do that.
HOWEVER, I DO have all B & O speakers. To me, speakers are what are "really" reproducing the sound and that's where my money in my system has gone.
For speakers, I have (2) BeoLab 5 (purchased new, something I don't regret as they had an electronics problem early on that was covered under warranty), (2) BeoLab 3 (backs) and a BeoLab 7-4 (center) (the latter 3 purchased used from the B & O dealer).
I wish B & O made it easier to use their speakers with other people's preamps. I know few people who have all the same manufacturer for their components. However, with help from the dealer, I made it work with a non-B & O preamp.
Anyway, back to the great BeoLab speakers. As you may have noticed, almost all of B & O's current speakers are "active" meaning they have built-in amplifiers for each driver. More importantly, before the signal gets to the amplifiers, there is an active crossover (the circuitry that sends the low frequencies to the woofer and the high frequencies to the tweeter, for example). Because it is an active crossover (as opposed to a passive crossover which is standard in most speakers), much more processing can be done to the signal, especially correcting for any peaks or dips in the raw driver's frequency response not to mention phase and cross-over slope. I believe all BeoLab speakers have circuitry to protect the speakers from overdrive and/or overheating as well.
The acoustic lenses that most BeoLab speakers have do an excellent job at distributing the high frequencies. In general, when a waveform's width approaches the diameter of the speaker producing it, the sound tends to beam straight ahead. The acoustic lenses nullify that phenomenon.
These two advantages for BeoLab speakers (most of which have been around for a long time, something I see as good) are reason enough to buy them for your system.
I know what you mean about the sound of the speakers at the dealer. While my dealer was very helpful, I don't think he had a good room to audition speakers as they didn't sound that great at the dealer. However, based on independent reviews of the BeoLab 5s, I took the plunge. In my basement living room, they sound great! On some tracks, it feels like the poured concrete floor is vibrating. While some listeners have complained about the lack of bass response, they can play VERY low. The bad news is that since they never show signs of distress when played loud, not to mention they have built in protection circuitry, you may play them louder than normal, affecting your hearing over time!
D
leosgonewild:If you are using 35k you ask them for a 20% discount. If they don't give it, take your money elsewhere.
Make sure you get a good feel for the salesman you'll be potentially dealing with before you divulge your budget.You want to be dealing with a genuine salesperson (not a ***), particularly if you run into any faults with the product. There can be many undesirables who work in the stores that really should be avoided, because of their poor attitude / personality can heavily affect the experience. I have had to deal with blatant dishonesty and laziness from a previously local B&O dealer, and it really put me off. On the other hand I've had wonderful experiences (this was in Adelaide, South Australia stores) which made ownership a treat. That's my two cents.
To the thread title, Yes I would.
Too long to list....
bayerische:To the thread title, Yes I would. Too long to list....
Eclipse 65V1-32Beosound M5Essence MK2BLI
"In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth. In finance, an investment is a monetary asset purchased with the idea that the asset will provide income in the future or appreciate and be sold at a higher price."
so it's not so much an investment but a purchase to enjoy, with the added element of obsolescence earlier than you'd like . You may find a system you will update and the old stuff may have some resale value. The traditional home integration by B&O is now partly covered by Bluetooth etc but to me detail like concealed cabling for TV and speakers are an investment which can be planned and updated .
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
I can understand your concerns regarding the suddenly reduced product lifecycle at B&O. For the older products it was always a satisfying feeling of safety. Because you knew: "Calm down, it's B&O, if s.th. is wrong you still can get spareparts for 10year old products!" But today? I wouldn't bet on B&O and his CEO and Designers. Since David Lewis is gone B&O suffers from the same problem as Apple with their product design and the B&O CEO doesn't make the situation any better...To your question:I wouldn't go for 2nd choice. If you like the really beautiful speakers like the Beolab 3500 and the dealer can't order them anymore: Just get used ones. There are more than enough on ebay etc. As a multiroom speaker and IR-command-receiver it is a timeless device. The only thing I don't like: It could have a little better sound by a provided Subwoofer - but I don't know if there's a chance to use a Beolab 3500 with an external Subwoofer. To my opinion a Beolab 3500 with a Beolab 11 Subwoofer in a room would be a lovely setup.If you like multiroom audio and comfortable selection of your music you should combine a Sonos system with B&O.My personal experience over my Hifi years: I have the best results with mixed setups.B&O speakers, B&O master audiosystem where additional sources are fed into through a comfortable preamplifier, a non B&O subwoofer for the B&O speakers etc.After seeing and testing I would never choose the Beosound Moment for my setup. It may fit many customers but I think it's completely useless for me. Even the Beosound 5 is (at this time, maybe later Softwareupdates could resolve the Beosound Moments flaws) is more comfortable to search for music.Yes, I would invest my money into B&O again!At your position you should only buy the products you REALLY want and like. If you want Beolab 3500 and it's not availabe: Get a used one. If you love the Beosound 9000: Search for used one.The Beovions 11 is a really beautiful TV, if you don't need 4K: Get one!The most important thing before you buy: Think about all your usage scenarios and the scenarios of your family.- how do you listen to music?- do you like physical mediums for your music or video (CD, DVD, Bluray...)?- do you listen to multiple sources in multiple rooms?- do you need multiroom audio in the form "one source/song in all rooms"?- who uses the things and how?- is only B&O easy and logical enough? (Based on experiences I can tell you: IT'S NOT!) ;-)- do you want home automation? (Masterlink Gateway or Beolink Gateway)- do you like a puck like remote on the wall for light or volume adjustment (Essence remote)?- ... and so on.
Personally I use a B&O Audiomaster and connected to it's "AUX IN" port is a Sony preamplifier for all non-B&O sources. Everything is controlled via a Beo 5 remote which is - one of the best universal remotes you can get. Philips Pronto is not on the market anymore (sadly) and RTI doesn't officially sell to private customers. Logitech Harmony? Tried one, not my cup of tea.I use the Sony preamplifier because not every family member likes the logic of e.g. the name "A.MEM" in the B&O world. The display of the Sony preamplifier could be edited to show the desired name. If the device shows e.g. "Playstation" or "Bluray" etc. in the display everybody knows that he hit the right button. There are endless possibilities and you have to think about the possibilities YOU like, wish for and prefer!So, think about it, feel free to ask us and simply enjoy!
@ dasun
Actually,
I would no invest in Bang & Olufsen.
The company have many problems of unreliability with products
and big financial worries.
Hoping a new management is coming soon with a new investor.
After, maybe things will be better with new strong products line
Made exclusively in Denmark.
Today, I will wait for !
DEVIALET designed and made in France
Thanks a lot for all your answers and opinions! I've been researching a lot, but still have many questions. Even though my B&O dealer was very nice, I should go to a different dealer as well, since the setup does not seem to be as simple as a Sonos setup (at least to me). Apparently, there are many products needed, to make the desired configuration work (like Beosystem 4, several Beo Essence).
My wife and I listen to a lot of music & also like to watch TV & movies. With our current Sonos setup, we wake up to Sonos, and have Sonos running in several rooms, while we breakfast and get ready for work. It should be exact the same with B&O. All music should be synced in all rooms without delay, and there should be the option, that different music can be listened to in different rooms if desired. Since we both use iphones & ipads, it should be possible to use these devices when interacting with the different B&O setups.
At this point, this is my desired configuration as follows. Would you have any recommendations to simplify the setup and maybe even make it cheaper with 3rd party solutions?
Living room: I will have a beamer setup (Epson 9200), which will be complemented with a Beosystem 4, a pair of Beolab 18s, a Beolab 19 sub, and two Beolab 4's as rear speakers. Would that even work with different front and rear speakers? Total cost here: about 12.500 EUR without the Beamer
Kitchen: this should be simple - just a Beovision 11-55 or 11-46. Total cost between 7.200 EUR to 8.200 EUR
Bedroom: we will have a 3rd party TV installed. The recommendation of the dealer was to go with a Beolab 14.2 and a Beosound Essence. Total cost about 3.000 EUR
Bathrooms & Floors: 6 3rd-party in-ceiling speakers, connected to a 3rd party receiver, and two Beosound Essence. Total cost about 2.500 EUR.
So in total, I'm looking at about 26.000 EUR.
Any recommendations? Will the multiroom setup work as desired?
It will all depend on the audio and video situation.
As for audio I'm old school so Beolabs and Beovisions are more the thing but yes I would invest as I know what kind of products they used to make and the experience that comes with it.
I would not know why one wouldn't invest in B&O products. Despite the constant moaning and complaining the firm still sells beautiful produced and designed stuff.
To my knowledge most speakers sound (very) good, and that what's they're for, the TV's are awesome too. So what's not to like? The price, always much talked about; yes it's expensive, and yes there's not a single brand in 'consumer electronics' that delivers the same products design-wise, ease-of-use-wise as B&O. They simply have no real competitors at this market niche. Just look how god almighty ugly the products are that other brands offer. Who want's that sort of unbelievably ugly speakers in their home? Not me that's for sure.
So, as long as B&O aren't bankrupt, I buy their products, and otherwise I'll buy them used.
Thanks everybody for the helpful answers and opinions! Unfortunately, I wrote a long post yesterday, which for some reason does not show up - maybe it has not been approved by the moderators?
hm, I guess my previous post got lost, so I'll try to rewrite it...
I think it's a very good idea to also check out a differen B&O dealer. My dealer was very nice, but since the setup seems to be slighty more complicated than my existing Sonos Setup, it might be good, to hear about other recommendations from a different dealer.
I am researching a lot at this point, and I'm definitely tending to B&O as of now. As of the functionality, I'm basically looking to have a similar user experience like my Sonos, but with better sound, design and maybe even better usability. In the mornings we wake up with Sonos, and all rooms are simultanously playing the same music while we get ready for work. It is also very nice, that there is no sound delay - the music in each room is in 'sync'. We do use our iPads and iPhones a lot to interact with Sonos, so that should be possible as well with B&O. Would you say, that the usability of a B&O System is as straightforward and simple as a Sonos?
My current setup is supposed to be as follows, maybe you have different recommendations to allow for an easier and maybe even more cost-efficient setup:
In my living room there will be a beamer setup (Epson 9200). According to my dealer I will have to add a Beosystem 4 and I would also include a pair of Beolab 18s and a Beolab 19 subwoofer. As rears, I would want to take Beolab 4s (is that even possible to have different rears?) So basically, I would just have a 4.1 setup, but my dealer was saying that with a pair of Beolab 18s I would not necessarily need a center speaker.
The setup in my kitchen is going to be pretty easy: just a Beovision 11-55 or 11-46.
In my bedroom I will have a Samsung TV, and would like to connect a Beolab 14.2. According to my dealer I would need to include a Beosystem Essence for multiroom support.
In our two bathrooms and the floors I would attach third-party in-ceiling loudspeakers, with a third-party amplifier, and one or two Beosound Essence.
I was planning on getting a Beosound Moment as well, but I will wait until the multiroom functionality will be added. At this point it seems more logical to me to use our iPad to interact with the Sonos System. In total, I am looking at a cost of about 26.000 EUR.
Would the above setup work? Or do I (and maybe even my dealer) have any thinking errors - it would be very dissapointing, if I installed this system and it doesn't work as desired....
Also, any recommendations to simplify or improve the setup?
Thanks in advance & best regards