ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dear BO fans,
I am new to this forum.
BO products fascinated me from 1995, when I was in Denmark. Then I forgot BO world completely (children, study, ...), BUT I found my fascination for BO month ago with purchase of Beolit 1000 radio in very good visual and working condition. Very nice piece.
I am very impressed with vintage wooden pieces from late 70-ties. Now considering to buy some tuner/amplifier. My first proposal/opinion is Beomaster 4400 with Beovox 2702 loudspeakers (which I have chance to buy- speakers only). What can I wait from this combo? Is it a good starting point? Thanks for advice.
Welcome to Beoworld.
The BM4400 I think is one of the finest B&O amps. It's also quite powerful and may overwhelm the 2702's as at volume they'd be driven hard. However, they are a good starting point. Expect some work over time such as capacitor replacement which can be sourced via members here (Dillen) and lots of useful knowledge on repairs.
Dave.
I agree with Dave, but be careful when buying BM 4400, they are all of age and will need repairs if not done. As for speakers the M 70 or S 75 are better to combine with the 4400, but you can use all of the Beovox speakers with the BM 4400, the smaller ones of course with attention to the volume and size of speaker.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
The Beomaster 4400 is a remarkable amplifier, however Dave and Søren are entirely right, at its age, the Beomaster 4400 will need to be rebuilt.
Of course the seller may accurately tell you that it works perfectly, and so it may, but it can’t for long.
If you are accomplished with electronics, Dillen’s kits are truly amazing and will bring a Beomaster 4400 back to specs.
The Beomaster 1900 series of amplifiers are also a very, very good starting point for a “beginner” and stunning as well.
I love my Beomaster 2400 and Beomaster 4500 which are different amplifiers from the 1900 family, but both have their strong selling points beyond being remote controllable and absolutely beautiful.
Of course the Beomaster 1900 series is not nearly as powerful as the iconic Beomaster 4400. I have one of these as well and it is a delightful amplifier.
As for speakers I would shy away from the 2702 speakers in favor of S75, M70, or M100’s.
The M-series tends to be considerably more expensive, so if you find a nice pair of S-75 speakers, BUY them. I have two pairs and adore them both.
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Thanks for nice welcome, it was as I wished.
I understood, that even I buy functional piece of such vintage radio, it needs to be renovated (electronics) for new life. I can buy renovation kit and ask my father of friend to do the soldering job.
I will forgot about thinking about 2702 speakers, because they are too small for it and start to think about something else.
Thanks for your help, I stay to read the forum definitely.
Yes you have the concept correct, a seventies or eighties B&O amplifier will need to be refurbished.
Bang & Olufsen and Tandberg for that matter selected capacitors that were brilliant performers when new, but aged badly and eventually failed. This is true of almost the entire B&O product line, including speakers from the sixties onward.
In contrast McIntosh chose capacitors that age gracefully, but used McIntosh equipment goes for many, many times that of Bang & Olufsen.
Just a word of caution, whereas the capacitor kits from Dillen are superb, amplifier restoration is more than replacing a handful of capacitors, resistors, and transistors. If that was all there was to it, I could have repaired my 2400 and 4500…. but a great deal of testing for values is also required.
The other “quirk” of electronic restoration, when you replace a component such as a capacitor bringing that component back to full strength, other components (transistors, resistors, etc.) that managed to function with the reduced performance of the old capacitor now immediately fail under the stress of a full load.
So it is never a quick and “clean” repair with merely replacing say 12 capacitors and the amp becomes as good as new.
And one more thing; B&O was notorious for poor solder points, case in point Dillen rebuilt my Beogram 8000 board and it required over 100 re-solders; so you can imagine what might be expected with an amplifier/tuner.
OK, it could not be so easy. My father is fortunately former radiotechnician, and BO products were this time his dream. So I think he will be happy.
Beomaster 3000-2 could be more available for me, 4400 are all away...
The Beomaster 3000-2 is a handsome amplifier and very much resembles the Beomaster 4400, just less powerful and the fascia panel is flat, not slanted like the BM 4400.
With your father’s expertise and admiration for B&O products I am sure he will be able to restore a 3000-2 with little difficulty.
Plus there is a great deal of technical help here on BeoWorld….. patient, step-by-step help…. just in case your father runs into unexpected trouble.
However, not from me, as I am an enthusiast NOT a technician. I like the tinker with the mechanicals on my 6 Beograms and can do minor soldering and lamp changes, but beyond that, my personal technical abilities run short.
And lastly, although any B&O amplifier you acquire will eventually require refurbishing, that is not to say that it won’t function beautifully for an indefinite period of time.
Case in point, my BeoCenter 9000 was dropped off at a government recycling facility and was literally found along with S75 and S45 speakers in the dumpster…… rescued by a friend of mine, and all it needed was new belts and a replacement CD drive, as I was never able to fix the original. However I have done nothing to it electronically and I have had it for nearly 4 years.
No question the BC 9000 will require rebuilding like all these aging amplifiers, but I am enjoying it in the mean time.
You can do that too if the Beomaster 3000-2 works when you purchase it.
Best wishes!
The magic day today ...
Today my BM4400 came from Denmark. Very nice optical condition, every button functional, lamp are glowing. Do not have spaekers at home still, so no chance to try it.
After xour advices and my room possibilities I decided to buy CX100 spekers and not the recommended S75 (smal room and not enought space in my flat.
Could it be a good idea to combine BM4400 with CX100 speakers?
Bad news.
When I turn it on, the "O. load" lamp briefly flashes and the some relay inside cliks. I have to wait to my father (electritian).
I really don’t know much about the CX100 speakers, however they were made for 18 years so they must have been a successful product and they should be able to accept the power levels of your Beomaster 4400.
I gotta tell you though, you must have the patience of Job because if I had received my Beomaster 4400 and had no speakers to try it out with….. well it wouldn’t have been pretty.
Best wishes with your excellent choice in amplifiers!
priklep: Bad news. When I turn it on, the "O. load" lamp briefly flashes and the some relay inside cliks. I have to wait to my father (electritian).
Bad news indeed. The electronics mavens in our group (Søren, Jacques, Martin to name a few) can chime-in and explain what the overload lamp flashing indicates with a good deal of detail.
However, with no load a flashing overload lamp indicates major trouble, which is to say a rebuild will indeed be required.
Martin (Dillen) has a re-cap kit which is excellent and will save your father a whole lot of trouble sourcing the correct capacitors and your father will want to take a look at the power supply.
Let us know how this plays out! OK?
Thanks for support. I am going to contact Dillen of course.
I have to remind, that I am starting with audio hobby (study, twins, ...), so NO speakers at home.
priklep: Thanks for support. I am going to contact Dillen of course. I have to remind, that I am starting with audio hobby (study, twins, ...), so NO speakers at home.
Did you buy your BM 4400 from Dillen ? I made a big repair on mine look here (loooong thread), The BM 4400 is my best BM until now, and as for driving the CX 100 no problems, these small power boxes takes everything you can throw at them, not the best sound, if you compare to bigger B&O boxes, they are placement sensitive so you will have to experiment a little to get the best sound. I have driven mine 8 hours middle to very high volume from a BM 5000 pizzabox no problems what so ever.
No, I bought it on dba.dk, not from Dillen. I want to ask Dillen for repair kit.
I found your thread of course, started reading from bedinning.
Had you purchased your Beomaster 4400 from Dillen, it would have been rebuilt and in perfect shape. Of course, I rather imagine the purchase price would have been a bit more.
Once you get your 4400 back to specs you will be more than pleased. Whatever is wrong can be fixed.
Søren’s restoration was an amazing job and beyond interesting…. actually exciting. We were all hanging on to each and every new report with Søren’s fantastic photographs and detailed description of the work performed.
I too have a Beomaster 4400, but mine is a “special” case in that it was restored using NOS (OLD) capacitors and cleaning the trimmers rather than replacing them. (Bad idea)
When I got it, it performed erratically: no bass, massive bass, tone changes and worst of all burning electrics filling my house with fumes. This went on for a month or so…. and it was so bad that the guys here at BeoWorld talked me into a fire extinguisher that I kept next to the 4400 for months.
My Beomaster 4400 settled down and I enjoy it today, but it will NOT last like it could have with new components.
Use Dillen’s kit! It will bring your Beomaster 4400 back to life as it should be.
Dear B O friends,
my Beomaster 4400 is on the way to my home. Repaired, fully working. Speakers also on the way, so in very near future I will have it at home. Of course will inform you.
Best wishes with your newly rebuilt Beomaster 4400…. I know you will love it.
Here is mine….
My Beomaster arrived fully serviced.
Repairman replaced both output transistors in one channel and some leaking capacitors. Of course I ordered replacement kit from Dillen, but serviceman told me, that if old caps are working and have their electric specification (he measured it somehow, no idea how) it is good idea to leave them there. So only some caps from Dillen s kit were replaced. I will keep them for next BM opening.
Also bought CX-100 loudspeakers which need refoaming (my very close future project) and 2-pin DIN cables from AVsolution.
I am very happy and my wife also like our music combo very much.
Thank you very much for kind invitation here, your advices and help. Another human infected with your sickness...
I am delighted that you are so pleased with your Beomaster 4400…. knew you would be, as it is a great amplifier.
Now as to leaving old capacitors that still meet spec, well that is OK for now, but I question the decision in the long run.
Please know that of this group I am an enthusiast NOT a technician; however I DO have experience with old capacitors.
In once instance they gave my Beomaster 4500 the most gorgeous mellow sound, but with time they failed spectacularly.
With my Beomaster 2400-2 the failing caps crippled the amplifier preventing it from it full potential, although it never failed completely before the rebuild.
And then there is my Beomaster 4400, a long, LONG story made short, it was rebuilt with NOS capacitors that filled my house with acrid fumes for months, changing moods from bassy to no bass, volume changes, etc.
The 4400 settled down somehow a few years ago, but two days ago began giving off the aroma of burning capacitors. Suffice to say it will need rebuilding WAY before it should.
Back to the 2400-2 and 4500, neither had all the capacitors replaced, BUT the technician doing the rebuilding is a B&O expert and knows what should be replaced and what can be left.
Anyway, I have no interest in “raining on your parade,” so if you are happy with the work, wonderful, just enjoy your handsome new amplifier!
With my low experience and the input from most experts on this forum its mandatory to exchange all electrolytic caps if a few of them starts to fail, I have, against the experts advice tried to do it the cheap way, and after 6 to 24 month I had to start over again, so if you start changing electrolytic caps do them all, the same goes for Darlington transistors, if you have to change one, change them all. If not the amp/receiver may work good for a while but will surely give problems later on. And if a Darlington has gone bad B&O recommend changing all the small transistors in the pad..
OK, I am going to arrange replacement of all caps from Dillen s kit. Thanks.
I missed this thread!
Your repairman probably didn't want to charge you too much. All in all, replacing all the capacitors is a good three-hour job.
My Beomaster 4400 has been used daily for a few hours since repair two or three years ago, feeding M70s to great effect.
It is nice to see another one - with the usual symptoms - saved from the tip!
Jacques
Søren is right, of course.
Even if older capacitors test within specs when matched with new capacitors these older and compromised caps get stressed and fail sooner rather than later.
I was “hinting” at this not wanting to spoil your fun with your “just arrived” Beomaster 4400. However your taking the 4400 back to the shop to have all the caps replaced is really the only way to go.
Once all caps are new it is a level playing field electronically and your amplifier will be set to give you many years of solid dependable performance.