ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
My Beogram 4004 is remote controllable…. after 8 years of being “so close, yet so far” I connected the Beogram 4004 to my Beomaster 2400.2, pressed P on the remote and like “magic” the Beogram 4004 went about playing a record. Fantastic, so early a remote that it can only be called primitive, but who cares? It indeed works.
Press a radio station on the remote and the Beogram 4004 turns off. Ditto shutting down the Beomaster 2400 likewise turns of the Beogram 4004.
But there is a flaw in the slaw. With the additional 2 DIN pins in place there is a pronounced hum when phono is selected. Even if shut down, if PHONO is selected there is a nasty hum. Select TAPE and the hum goes away.
Now neither the Beogram 4002 that originally was coupled with the Beomaster 2400 or in fact this Beogram 4004 working with the BeoCenter 9000 had ANY hum.
However, I screwed in the 2 DIN pins and now there is a HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Any ideas what is wrong and better still, how to fix it?
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Could be that a grounding connection broke off inside the DIN but it could also be something else.If possible, rotate the mains plug in the outlet and see if that cures it.
Martin
Hi Martin,
I tried rotating the plug connection, but that is not the issue. Good try, though…
There is something definitely going on in the connection at the plug. Now keep in mind that this Beogram 4004 has been moved around between different amplifiers over the years and there has never been a hum.
The only thing that changed is I screwed in the 2 DIN pins you sent me (thank you so much for that!) and now I have this hum.
I have little doubt that the problem is in or near the plug, as opposed to being anywhere else within the 4004 or the Beomaster 2400.2 itself. I say this because twisting the cord a bit and the hum alters in tone and briefly goes away.
So what should I do about this? Good question, huh?
Thanks.
Martin,
I have an addendum for this situation.
I think it very possible that the connection to the BeoCenter 9000 “may” have damaged the wires within the Beogram 4004 cable. Why do I say this?
Well the Beogram 4004 has been connected to my BeoCenter 9000 for several years and this requires the cable to make a very sharp bend in order to close the black plastic cover on the back panel.
I know this because when I plugged in the Beogram 4002 the stiff cable, not having been used to being bent like that popped the door open several times, until I managed to cautiously bend the Beogram cable.
It doesn’t take a genius (which is good because I am not) to realize this is a poor ground issue, I just would like direction on how to cure it.
I much prefer directions rather than just slicing open the cable and hope for the best….
You will have to open the plug to check
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Hi Søren,
When I was removing the DIN plug with the Beomaster 2400 on the hummm changed drastically, the pitch went up and down, and for a second here and thee disappeared completely.
I have the same situation, almost exactly with my iconic Beogram 4000, only with the 4000 the hum is not as loud and I have learned that by gently shaking the cable the hum disappears. Of course if I disturb the cable the hum comes back, but it is easy enough to banish.
This is one of the downsides of vintage electronics; the simplest “change” can cause a whole lot of trouble. Generally it isn’t serious but can be a real challenge to rectify.
I will see what I can do with this cable, but instead of me staring at it at length trying to figure out how to get inside this plug, any direction would be much appreciated.
I enjoy doing this sort of work, BUT I really prefer knowing what I am doing before I start. I have been inside countless DIN speaker plugs (of necessity) but they are very different from the DIN plugs.
I will say this; hummmmm notwithstanding it was beyond COOL seeing the Beogram 4004 just play a record without touching it. I also did not expect the STOP function, I just thought it turned on, but it also turns off when the radio is selected. No fast-forward or reverse, no lift, but still fun to watch.
P.S. Any other comments are more than welcome!
hamacbleu:That would be a shame to destroy such a beautiful receiver and turntable just for the sake of touching 1 buttons instead of 2...
Does anyone else besides the gentleman in Quebec feel a faulty speaker ground could damage either the Beomaster 2400 or the Beogram 4004?
By the way, thanks for your interest as well as the concern.
Nice to hear from another BeoWorlder in Canada…. I thought I was nearly alone.
I attended a pretty good vinyl “convention” in Nanaimo last weekend (Up-island here on Vancouver Island) and then on to a excellent vintage electronics shop that specializes in turntables…. they never heard of Bang & Olufsen. (I was shocked.) Been in business for 22 years with over 10,000 records for sale and didn’t even know of B&O.
They thought Garrard, Pioneer, and Dual were the cat’s meow.
Still a great shop.
If you get hum and different levels of huuuuum touching or moving the plugs, something is wrong inside the plug or the cable near the plug. I would without much thought to it, open the plug, if not possible, cut the cable near the plug, then check with an Ohm meter all the wires for continuity to the BG ( you will have to open the BG) and then for resistance between all of the wires. If OK solder on a new plug, check it the same way, and you are done. If you dont want to open the BG, cut the cable or open the plug, check for continuity between the outer screen wire and BG chassis, then check for resistance between outer screen wire and all other wires or pins in the plug, then one by one resistance between wires, and continuity between the inner screen wires that goes to pin 2 in the plug,.If it all comes out OK solder on a new plug and you are done.If you find failures you will have to go inside the BG, if no failures there, go inside the BM
I am glad you found a fellow Canadian, I wish I could find a fellow Mexican down here, at times I feel lonely
Long story, we missed my father-in-law’s 87th birthday (trust me, his fault not ours) none the less we need to address this situation tomorrow. (This will take the entire day.)
I am suspicious that my BeoCenter 9000 connection is the root culprit in this unexpected fiasco. The handsome door requires the Beogram cable to make a HARD left turn for the door to close and that crimp I feel broke the ground connection.
As a result, I was extra careful when connecting the Beogram 4002 to the BeoCenter 9000 so as not to repeat this same story.
There are other issues, will send a private message.
Here in the East, B&O seems to be relatively unknown too. And most of the time, when it's known, it's viewed as design over function (euphemism for crap).
Also, imagination is needed when searching the local ads for B&O. There's the common "Bang & Olufson" but also this funny variation found earlier this week that will make French speakers smile: "Table tournante Ben et Olufsen".
Hope you'll find a solution to your problem. I know this useless but somewhat pleasant sensation of starting the Beogram 8000 just by pressing a button on the Beolab terminal. I also have this sensation when touching the control panel of the Beomaster 2400 and hearing this kind of short bass "thump" when the amplifiers are activated.
By the way I had to open one of these original grey din connector lately. I found out that some wires were touching each other inside, aside from those that were broken. There should not be continuity between any of the 7 pins and the casing of the plug.
But as Søren pointed out, you'll probably have to open it anyways.
...Or keep your pins on a potential acquisition of a Beomaster 8000 (which seems to be missing from the posession list under your signature) and use the pins to pair it with the Beogram 8000 or 2.
Beogram 8000+Beomaster 8000 is heaven.
Guillaume
I found the problem, working on the solution.
Opening up the DIN plug, all wires look good BUT the ground mesh wire is all but non-existent.
I don’t know what happened or where all that wire went, but it is missing, hence no ground connection.
Hi Guillaume,
I have never found a Beomaster 8000 other than the usual eBay offerings: “It turns on, but that is all I know,” or “For parts or repair only.” Too risky knowing full well a BM 8000 repair has GOT to be expensive.
Interesting about your THUMP when you turn your Beomaster 2400 on. I had heard that the Beomaster 4400 does that more often than not.
Neither my Beomaster 2400 or Beomaster 4400 make any real sound when coming on, a slight thump but all in lower case letters, if you get my meaning. However if you like the THUMP than I glad your 2400 makes that sound.
My memory at this stage is like a sieve but I think it may have something to do with the power supply.
I like your avatar; I spotted the unmistakable Beogram 8000 LED speed read-out. Classy!
My own Beogram 8000 is pretty much junk, but it is MY junk, as I cobbled it together from two 8000’s. Cosmically pristine (my original parts contribution, but the mechanicals make groans when starting up and turning off. Silent would be preferable, but as I said, this is MY 8000, and I love it.
Glad to find another B&O admirer in Canada as I really thought I was pretty much alone.
Guys, I need help.
On the DIN plug, going from the right to the left (counterclockwise) it is: yellow, blank, blank, ground, red…… and then blue and white, or is it white and blue? The wires have come off so I don’t know where to solder the last 2 wires.
Thank you.
I decided that the wires need to be: yellow, blank, blank, ground, red, blue, and white…. from 12:00 might night counterclockwise.
Now what happens when the DIN plug is inserted the Beogram plays, but won’t turn off…. also the Beomaster 2400 will not turn off, even with the on/off button on the panel.
If radio is selected all the lights dim but the Beomaster does not do anything by play phono.
Worse, the hummmmmmm is still there.
“Houston, we have a problem….”
Off my head, change blue and white
Great minds think alike, I did just that independently and yes all functions are correct, plus I didn’t know that pressing P a second time causes the tonearm to lift and hover over the record. Beyond cool!
For the record Søren, I was being cute with the above comment, YOU have an amazing mind, I just made a lucky guess which seemed obvious.
However, the hummmmmm is still there.
Now I am not certain but I believe that the ground wire coming from the Beomaster 2400 is the mesh outer wire that surrounded all the coloured insulated wires and it had iodized to nothing. There were a few strands left but no debris, just nothing.
Now to make this work I shortened the cable to make this all work, the ground (mesh wire) was connected to the third pin (center down) as well as to the circular casing.
Something is still wrong, but I don’t know what?
Keith,
In my email inbox I received 3 solicitations to sell passports from around the world under “BeoWorld Update Notification 7-pin hummmmmmmmmm.”
I tried to send you a message via “report abuse” but it failed.
Just to let you know.
Outer shield is the ground (chassis) wire, it has to be connected to the metal casing of the plug and have continuity to chassis only.
the inner shield wires (around red and white i believe) is signal ground and has to be connected to pin 2 (middle pin) and check for shorts from pin to pin and to ground
OK guys, here’s the deal.
I know I have a ground issue, so first (before attaching an outside ground between the Beomaster 2400 and the Beogram 4004) I decided to remove the 2 additional pins just to see what would happen.
With the pins removed, NO hum….. (Nada por Søren).
I inserted the blue wire pin, top left and no hum. Re-installed the yellow wire pin, top right and SURPRISE NO hum.
I did absolutely nothing whatsoever to the DIN connector other than to remove the 2 additional pins with a screwdriver.
I had played the Beogram 4004 all week and each time it had that terrible hum. Took out the pins and then replaced them and the hum disappeared.
Adding these 2 pins should not have effected the ground connection in any way, but it did. If I disturbed the ground connection (hard to imagine) all new solder points should have made the connections better, but didn’t in any tangible way.
I know when the problem is “solved” we tend to lose interest, however if anyone has an idea of what occurred here, maybe there would be a lesson in it for all of us.
I’d love some enlightenment on this weird issue, but even living with this mystery BOY am I happy to have my Beogram 4004 fully remote controllable: PLAY PAUSE and OFF. Life is good!
Congrats then..
perhaps the added pins were just badly connected the first time ? Perhaps you did solve the problem by opening the plug?
I admit it should be fun starting the Beogram by "touching" the surface of the Beomaster. It might be a "wow" factor for anyone coming in front of this system for the first time.
Plus, the brushed stainless steel control panel of the Beogram can have it's coating preserved.
Do you have the remote controller? It's a nice piece of too...
You hit it exactly; the WOW factor is pretty neat.
And yes, I have the remote control which only adds to the excitement.
When I screwed in the 2 additional pins I was using one of my jeweller’s screwdrivers, so they were TIGHT. That wasn’t the problem, but good try.
I “possibly” disturbed the very weak solder points when inserting the pins, but I was very careful, so that is hard to imagine.
However if I did, re-soldering all of them should have corrected the ground issue, but it didn’t.
I took out the pins “just in case” not expecting anything and was frankly surprised when the hum disappeared. I then re-inserted them one at a time to see which was the “offending” pin, but the hum didn’t return.
As for the stainless steel pads, I use a cloth to depress them never touching the metal with my fingers. My three 4000 series Beograms are all virtually flawless and I want to keep them that way.
The remote’s use means not having to touch anything, which is an additional plus.
I was ready to connect a ground wire from the Beomaster 2400 to the Beogram 4004, but that proved unnecessary.
Thank you for your interest….. you are my only Canadian Beobuddy. Great feeling not to be alone!
Guys,
Thought you might like to see what a Beogram 4004 looks like in action. This brief video captures the WOW factor…. hope you like it.
I am sufficiently technically limited that I don’t know how to post a link. The below might work, but if not, a simple copy and paste into your browser and you can see the 4004 in all its glory.
https://vimeo.com/127796032
Saw it Jeff, do you know if this is possible with the BG 4002, I think my BM 2400 has the 7 pin phono
If your Beomaster 2400 has a 7-pin DIN outlet it is almost certainly a 2400-2 and can remote control a Beogram.
Unfortunately the reason for the introduction of the Beogram 4004 WAS for its remote control feature, whereas the Beogram 4002 was not so designed.
I will have to check again but if I go for a BG 4000 series it will be a 4004, on the other hand I would rather save up some $ and go for the holy grail the BG 3000 Thorens. I am short of one BG and when the BL/BM 5000 comes down here I will be missing 2 BGs.
Well I am also thinking of one more BG 1000, I love that simple Look and very good function, and then get Axel to provide a top notch pickup. I could use that one for the BL/BM 5000 until I get the Thorens
Sounds like a plan to me.
Just make sure FIRST that your Beomaster 2400 has a 7-pin socket….. the rest is easy.
The ground issue I was having had me back with the service manual where I learned that the remote feature not only plays a record, but also pauses and stops the play function.
Since then I acquired on eBay the Owner’s Manual which explained all the features in detail.
No two ways about it, the Beogram 4000 remains my favourite TT, however the remote controlled Beogram 4004 is simply fantastic to watch in action.
The 8 year wait may have amplified my personal excitement vis-à-vis this function, but nothing takes away from the FUN-factor of seeing the 4004 spring to life untouched.
Good hunting my friend!