ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I was wandering around john lewis and seen the above in there.
what made it worse when i asked about the sound they said it wasnt worth the money and go for the B&W
Damn!!!
I can definitely see a place with the young, affluent crowd that shops in the menswear departments of Harvey Nics and Selfridges but John Lewis hmm slightly frumpy maybe?
Don't listen to the jealous John Lewis employee. buy the beosound 8! its much better!
I am not a jealous John Lewis employee - I have bought the B&W Zeppelin (and P5 Concert for One) - you state that the Beosound 8 is much better as if it is a fact.
Not according to me it isn't.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:Doesn't the B&W use B&O ICE?
Interesting point Chris ... having listened to Geoff Martin's speech in Struer and overheard some of his discussions on the bus and at dinner (the man is dedicated - fancy putting up with all of us over a dinner !) I learned a lot - most notably just how much software engineering and tweaking there is in speakers (particularly to deliver big sound from small footprints) today compared to big air moving boxes.
So I would suggest that just having an ICE power source is only a small part of the story -- Geoff and his mates spend weeks calibrating the software in a speaker to achieve "sonmeister quality" () -- and I suspect that science and art are not offered as a service as part of an ICE package; i.e. it is up to each speaker supplier to tune their product to achieve the sound design they want
BeoNut since '75
KingOfSnake: I am not a jealous John Lewis employee - I have bought the B&W Zeppelin (and P5 Concert for One) - you state that the Beosound 8 is much better as if it is a fact. Not according to me it isn't.
I don't think the Beosound 8 users/lovers state that it is better - they (me included) just prefer it to the Zeppelin.
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Point taken and appreciated - just riles me posts like this.
B&O is superb from an ownership point of view, it gives a lot of satisfaction and long-term enjoyment - but that is no reason to demean another brand, particularly a brand like the calibre of B&W.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion in my view, but words like 'jealous' are simply unnecessary in my view.
@elephant - it is excellent B&O spend time refining their products and for me the bs8 is very good, perhaps a little bit harsh and bass light for my tastes - as before I try and give praise to other manufacturers and B&W products have not failed to impress me to date.
If you can afford either you are doing ok in my book.
I've got to be honest - and this affects Ian - I simply can't get any young people interested in B&O products. Sorry, I've worked hard at it, but it's just not happening. It's left me deflated and questioning our "devotion" to the brand and, frankly, some of the users on this board. Maybe these younger people are actually right after all...
Let me give you some history. I work for various tech publisher's in the UK and worldwide. My company has created a CMS and various other devices these tech publishers use to produce their content. So, we have a fairly hands on and hands off role - we don't work full-time for them, but we do go to their offices an integrate.
Most employees are 35 or younger. That's just the standard in that industry.
I can get people interested in the B&O brochures, some of them *aspire* (cool brands etc) to own some of the kit, but when they come to part with their cash, I can't get a single person under 35 to buy B&O.
Why does it affect Ian and Lee? I had one guy dead certain to buy BL3s. He was going to buy a BS4 or BC2 to control them, but couldn't justify the cost and says that they are very "early 90s" with their design - it's true, he's right. BC2 on the stand does look a bit dated now and the BS4 was great six years ago. Encore overpriced.
Anyhow, he was keen to buy some pre-loved BL3s. Started to look around, went to demo Splendor, Dynaudio and other speakers and realised you get far more for your money. He's moved away from B&O BL3s and B&O generally. He's even decided....like a lot of young people....it's style over substance.
Another guy was interested in the BS8. I even got him in to the B&O store. Saw the £800 price tag, went for the Zeppelin, hasn't looked back.
The problem is with making any points like this on a B&O forum is that these users are going to stick up for their brand. This is a place where their passion is found and, as you've seen with my discussions with certain American friends, passion leads to blinkered discussions where no negativity is warranted. They don't want to go come here and see this. So, you have to live and work in a bubble away from reality where you can only say great things about the brand, distorted against a background of what most people on the street - but most importantly, the next generation of B&O customers - think of the products.
I bought the latest Stuff magazine yesterday. Two B&O products are highlighted - the Beolit 12 and the V1. Great, some publicity! However, both write-ups of each product are full of sarcastic words regarding the price, too much cash, designed for people who probably have a few horses in their own stables, etc etc. And Stuff magazine is the sort of place that people <35 are buying to influence their tech purchases.
B&O have got their work cut out convincing younger people to almost DOUBLE their expenditure by "upgrading" (note the quotes) to B&O. It's a really really hard sell.
It's a shame. I'm 27 and a big enthusiast - does that cheer you up? I am seriously contemplating buying a V1 but even as the budget model the price makes me wince slightly - in other words I can sympathise with the general opinion regarding the price. But then if it was mass produced plastic it would have none of the appeal to me, so I still think the brand can offer 'value' in terms of rewarding ownership!
KingOfSnake: Everyone is entitled to their opinion in my view, but words like 'jealous' are simply unnecessary in my view.
And, worryingly Ian, you make a living - running a business - from B&O products. If anyone should be positive about the brand and the products, it would be yourself.
I don't think people on here realise your position within the B&O UK market. You get a lot of flack - wrongly and sometimes rightly - for your comments, yet you should be one of the most passionate people on here. I'd take your comments any day over a blinkered "passionate" individual.
jkhamler: It's a shame. I'm 27 and a big enthusiast - does that cheer you up?
It's a shame. I'm 27 and a big enthusiast - does that cheer you up?
Am I trying to convince you to buy B&O?
Remember there will always be the odd individual (under 30) who buys B&O, generally those with a higher-than-normal disposable income. But they are in the vast minority, that's the point. Replying on a B&O forum offers a distorted view on B&O. It's not the same as talking to most <30-year-olds who read T3, Stuff magazine and so on.
Well I'm glad every other under 30 doesn't own it otherwise it would lose alot of its appeal (it's my one guilty pleasure - I am otherwise fairly non-materialistic!). I have a modest income, but I could stretch to a V1 provided it proves to be as good as promised, lasts and the company still exists to support it in a few years!
jkhamler: Well I'm glad every other under 30 doesn't own it.....and the company still exists to support it in a few years!
Well I'm glad every other under 30 doesn't own it.....and the company still exists to support it in a few years!
Those two comments are not mutually exclusive!
Good point Moxxey! I've done the same, I've introduced B&O to my friends mid to late 20s BUT and here is the but, they are only interested in the BS8/A8 Airplay and the BeoLit12.
They showed no interest in the BS5/BS5 Encore - I couldn't really say anything nice about it being honest and of course the BS4 with CD didn't make sense to them.
So, yeah, I think the BANG&OLUFSEN range isn't appealing to them, but, the B&O range seems to be getting their attention, just a shame the A8 Airplay is so expensive when we'd all got used the the BS8 reduced price - something that my dealer agreed on as being a more realistic price!
Hi again Chris, it has been a long time. Thanks for your kind words, whether it was you or anyone else I thought certain comments were unwarranted on another post you were contributing to. Anyway looking forward to listening to the B&W MM-1 I have just bought for £166 and comparing them with Beolab 4 :)
I don't doubt that introducing the "Play" brand is the right thing to do but I can't help thinking that B&O have still been a little "greedy" with the pricing. The BS8 should be priced to blow the Zeppelin out of the water - while B&O customers might feel the B&O make superior speakers to B&W, to the great unwashed there are no grounds to assume either is better than the other, both make very expensive speakers, both make a high quality iPod dock. One is almost half the price of the other and, to some, less challenging asthetically and available from a multitude of outlets. While B&O are tackling some of these issues, such as availibility etc. the price is still the biggest issue.
@Kingof Snake - where did you get the MM1's for £166 - that's a bargain!
Ban boring signatures!
I totally agree Puncher! I'd got used to the more realistic new price of the BS8 at £750! I think £799 is just right for the A8 Airplay but £949 is not going to do it many favours. Beautiful design though!
Though a fan of JL I had a similar experience. Whilst scanning a Loewe display area (just out of competitive interest!), a salesman (who knew his stuff about Loewe) said "we've had a lot of interest particularly from B&O customers because these are cheaper and better". After a friendly challenge the sales guy admitted he'd go for the B&O given the choice and then explained to me (as I was still acting as a casual customer) about the plastic Loewe wasnt a patch on the aluminium etc of the B&O. After some considerable discussion he said we would really like B&O here but couldn't. That was some months - a year maybe - ago. But I'll be down tomorrow to take my first hands on on the Beolit 12. And if they get the V1 it might be a done deal....
PeterC i think that you will love the BeoLit 12! So much bass from such a tiny box! Quite feminine though! I want to see those Mulberry girls buying it!!!
I'd love to see it in Selfridges & Harvey Nics on the menswear floor. They have round tables with beautiful accessories and goodies on. This little BeoLit 12 would go down a storm here! . A friend of mine, served some professional ladies the other month who spent £18k on shoes (Yeah, I nearly fainted) imagine if those sexy BeoLit 12's had been there with their little Italian leather straps! A sale? Yep, I think so!!!
Now on the johnlewis.com website.
John Lewis used to have B&O full range with listening rooms. Where do these latest marketing moves leave the B&O stores? Can't imagine someone who bought a B&O franchise being particularly happy with these moves, even though it might be a good strategy for the overall business.
Graham
vikinger: Now on the johnlewis.com website. John Lewis used to have B&O full range with listening rooms. Where do these latest marketing moves leave the B&O stores? Can't imagine someone who bought a B&O franchise being particularly happy with these moves, even though it might be a good strategy for the overall business. Graham
Agree.
btw - how long have A8's (or earset 3) been £150!
Hi Puncher, saw a set on eBay which were used and just offered the guy - he was making his money out of it so it was a deal. Cracking little speakers for the size and am using with a Flio E17 headphone amp/usb DAC and very pleased. Will hook them up to an iMac and use the USB DAC.
Beolab 4, by way of comparison, are 2.5x the price new, and 2.5x the price used. Makes me think about a few things!
KingOfSnake: Hi Puncher, saw a set on eBay which were used and just offered the guy - he was making his money out of it so it was a deal. Cracking little speakers for the size and am using with a Flio E17 headphone amp/usb DAC and very pleased. Will hook them up to an iMac and use the USB DAC. Beolab 4, by way of comparison, are 2.5x the price new, and 2.5x the price used. Makes me think about a few things!
I haven't listened to them "critically" but I have been impressed when I've heard them instore. Probably the best desktop speakers I've seen without getting ridiculous in size.
Puncher: vikinger: Now on the johnlewis.com website. John Lewis used to have B&O full range with listening rooms. Where do these latest marketing moves leave the B&O stores? Can't imagine someone who bought a B&O franchise being particularly happy with these moves, even though it might be a good strategy for the overall business. Graham Agree. btw - how long have A8's (or earset 3) been £150!
Since they added the microphone ???
Just spotted this ad for a B&O franchise. To be fair, the models mentioned suggest it's a year or two out of date.
That will be £308 000 Sir, with a minimum of £92k up front.
Oh, and did we mention that John Lewis will be selling our high volume lowest priced products?
Oh, and did we mention that we've started doing our own sales on line?
Oh, and did we point out that in our contract small print it says that we can do all these things and more........................... ?
Now, we just have to find that nice store for you to rent. Oh, didn't we mention the costs that came on top of the franchise ?
vikinger: Since they added the microphone ???
That'll be it then!
p.s. thanks for the link, I've just applied
Puncher: vikinger: Since they added the microphone ??? That'll be it then! p.s. thanks for the link, I've just applied
I'll be round for my introductory discount then............
vikinger:I'll be round for my introductory discount then............
You're round already!
Puncher: vikinger:I'll be round for my introductory discount then............ You're round already!
Is this Sunday or Wednesday................ ?
Puncher: That'll be it then! p.s. thanks for the link, I've just applied
I don't think the 3i's are as good as my old A8s. They lack bass and general roundness to the sound. I ended up selling mine a couple of months ago. They were quite a chunk poorer than the A8s.
vikinger: Now, we just have to find that nice store for you to rent. Oh, didn't we mention the costs that came on top of the franchise ?
True, but it's like a lot of things in life, including part of my business, they want their cake and to eat it. We work with a number of online tech partners producing software stores across the world (one of the many things we do). We're constantly up against the software companies doing their own deals and offers direct to the consumer. They just can't help themselves. They even advertise in the same places as us. Crazy. Ok, we didn't pay hundreds of thousands, but there is a stock level commitment we had to make.
It's really hard to compete with traditional retail stores. Although I understand your argument Vikinger, sadly the market is moving *from* walking in to your retailer *to* online (luckily for me). B&O are having to move in that direction as the customers demand it. A lot of younger people don't care too much about walking in to stores like we used to do - if they can order something online, they will. It's just a slightly different audience. With B&O Play attempting to tap in to this online audience, that's just what B&O have to do.
The traditional B&O stores are a long-term dilemma. As I've said many times, as the existing audience grows older and is less willing to commit to new B&O products, the current <35-year-olds have to be enticed to buy B&O. Most of them won't walk in to a traditional B&O store, so pushing out the Play products to Apple Stores, John Lewis and online, makes a LOT of sense.
Agree with with you have posted Chris, but if I was a franchise I would be mighty peeved - just relieved I didn't go ahead with a B&O franchise, I actually sent off a cheque to begin a franchise application with Subway having secured the financial backing ridiculously easily. The strength of any shop is in location and local clientele, the Web has changed things for sure........
moxxey: vikinger: Now, we just have to find that nice store for you to rent. Oh, didn't we mention the costs that came on top of the franchise ? The traditional B&O stores are a long-term dilemma. As I've said many times, as the existing audience grows older and is less willing to commit to new B&O products, the current <35-year-olds have to be enticed to buy B&O. Most of them won't walk in to a traditional B&O store, so pushing out the Play products to Apple Stores, John Lewis and online, makes a LOT of sense.
I agree entirely. However, if I was a B&O stand-alone franchise owner I would be rather put-out. Not only would I be competing with these new outlets and online sales, but I would also be up against the B&O directly owned shops, which in some cases are failed former franchise operations. I suppose in the end the biggest competition is going to be the online sales outlets, but there will still be the buyers who want to see hear and hold before they buy..... so there is still a place for the high street shop (and for the expertise needed for 'Big' B&O and sorting out system problems....)
KingOfSnake: Agree with with you have posted Chris, but if I was a franchise I would be mighty peeved - just relieved I didn't go ahead with a B&O franchise, I actually sent off a cheque to begin a franchise application with Subway having secured the financial backing ridiculously easily.
Agree with with you have posted Chris, but if I was a franchise I would be mighty peeved - just relieved I didn't go ahead with a B&O franchise, I actually sent off a cheque to begin a franchise application with Subway having secured the financial backing ridiculously easily.
Ian, are you saying you're moving away from your pre-loved B&O business to opening a Subway franchise? Or do you mean you were going to open one, but didn't bother?
I'm not convinced about the sandwich business. I know of two such owners in Bath who are stressed to hell from that business. It's been hit hard since 2008, as lots of people bring their own sandwiches to work, plus it's manically busy for about two hours over lunch, then there's almost nothing to do after 2pm except for clean clean and more cleaning (and that goes on and on). Plus making sandwiches each and every day quickly tires.
LOL, just to clarify no business it brisker, bigger and more demanding than ever - wasn't clear but I was referring to 2002 when I was at a bit of a T-Junction with my next business - appreciate that the Sandwich business isn't for everybody, Subway has that 247 appeal, not to me mind, maybe 3 or 4 visits a year if that!
Hi Paul - sadly didn't get the chance - JL in Bristol don't seem to be stocked up in Beoplay items yet. Still, making a repeat visit very soon so will let you know. I'll try to avoid the Mulberry leggings when I go though....
I just hope that we never see B&O sold in the scummy places like Tesco. Occasionally, I have to go in one and evening seeing Apple in there makes me cringe! I really hope that B&O are careful were they sell their BeoPlay range, even Waitrose would be a bad idea.
Paul W: ....even Waitrose would be a bad idea.
....even Waitrose would be a bad idea.
Waitrose and John Lewis are one and the same. Indeed, the Waitrose here in Bath is turning in to a "Waitrose Home" which is 50% Waitrose and 50% John Lewis.
Hi Moxxey, yes of course. Wow Waitrose home, that is a first - sounds cool. I do notice a lot of TVs & iPhone docks in our Waitrose but I think it would be a shame to have B&O in a supermarket - even though it is a lovely supermarket!
Paul W: I just hope that we never see B&O sold in the scummy places like Tesco. Occasionally, I have to go in one and evening seeing Apple in there makes me cringe! I really hope that B&O are careful were they sell their BeoPlay range, even Waitrose would be a bad idea.
There's a reason B&O has a problem with it's image!!