Sound Configuration Beolab 19 with Beolab 20 and Beolab 17

Hi all,

as you may recall from my previous posts, I have a surround setup consisting of Beolab 20s in front, Beolab 17s in the back and a Beolab 19 as a sub, all connected to a Beosystem 4 wirelessly via a B&O Transmitter.

I have most of my devices connected through the Beosystem 4, only my Sonos connect is directly connected to the Transmitter.

Now, when I listen through Sonos, without the Beosystem 4, I get equal volume on all speakers and a very nice and deep bass coming from the Beolab 19.

When I listen e.g. to the same song via Apple TV through the Beosystem 4, 99% of the sound appears to come from the front speakers. There is no sound from the subwoofer.

I understand that there is an automatic bass management, which redirects the sounds to the most capable speaker. However, I prefer the bass from the sub as it feels deeper and more dynamic than the bass from the Beolab 20s. Also, I like solid bass for effects when watching movies - I feel that the Beolab 19 is more capable for this than the Beolab 20.

How do I change the settings in the menu, to direct the bass to the subwoofer? I deactivated the bass management in the settings, but that didn't help. Any ideas?

The TrueImage processor in BS4 knows that the BL20s can handle bass on their own and therefore not sending any/much to the BL19.

Cheat the BS4 by selecting other speakers in the speaker connection menu. Put like BL18 or BL17 instead of the BL20 (actually I don't know if you can select other speakers when using WISA, i know you can when cabled).

 

Thank you so much! Simple, but great idea - and it worked. I changed the front speakers to Beolab 18, and now I hear the sub. And the Beolab 20 still sound very good! Thanks again!

But do you think with this 'trick' you get a better bass from BL19 than with correct settings from BL20 only (without BL19)? This would be very surprising for me.

This could also mean that BL18 or 17 together with BL19 you could be a better solution than with BL20 only, at least regarding bass performance.

Regards

Räuber

Sounds to me like here the discussion went into "more bass" vs "better/more accurate bass"? *unsure*

I guess it is very subjective, whether the Beolab 20s sound better or the Beolab 19 in combination with 'tricked' Beolab 20. To me, I feel as if the bass on the Beolab 19 is more dynamic, deeper and more present than with the Beolab 20 alone. Especially music with more bass - electric, RnB - sounds more fun with the Beolab 19 to me. But I will test out different configurations within the next few days, so I have not fully decided upon which combination is the better one for me.

HardCopy:

Cheat the BS4 by selecting other speakers in the speaker connection menu. Put like BL18 or BL17 instead of the BL20 (actually I don't know if you can select other speakers when using WISA, i know you can when cabled).

This is not the correct way to do this, since it will not only change the bass management settings, but also the time alignment. Telling the BeoSystem 4 that you have a given loudspeaker gives it a lot of information not only regarding bass capabilities, but things like latency and overall sensitivity. 

The correct way to do what you want to do is to set the Speaker Connections to the correct loudspeaker models, and then go to the Advanced Menus for the Bass Management. There, you can decide which channels are filtered, where the LFE channels are routed, and by how much.

Therefore, you could, for example, decide to send the Bass Management LFE channels to the BL20's and the 19 simultaneously, in whatever level relationship you choose.

 

We should, however, be clear about exactly what you're evaluating. A single BeoLab 20 has a greater bass capability than a BeoLab 19. This means that, averaged over a low frequency band, it can play louder. Two BeoLab 20's are certainly louder than one 19. However, it could be that you are not evaluating your system at maximum volume, and therefore, this is irrelevant for your comparison.

This raises the question of what it is that you prefer about the 19 over two 20's. There are two main differences when you switch between these two (assuming everything else is equal):

- coupling to the room (particularly room modes)

- tuning (aka sound design) - including frequency range

 

My guess is that the first of these two is the biggest difference (it's only a guess because I don't know your room). Very generally, one loudspeaker will couple to (or "activate") room modes more than two loudspeakers. In addition, since you can't have the 19 in exactly the same location as either of the 20's, then the coupling to room modes is also different.

As an experiment, try changing the bass management settings so that you're sending the LFE to only one BeoLab 20 instead of both of them. Also try putting the 20 in exactly the same location in the room as you currently have the 19.

If you do choose to bass manage to the 19 - it would also be interesting to try moving the bass management crossover frequency to see if, in your room, this can help as well.

 

Depending on your room and your loudspeaker and listener location within it, it MIGHT be that the bigger difference is the tuning difference between the 19 and the 20. Of course, they are different loudspeakers with difference magnitude and time responses - and you might just prefer one over the other at your typical listening level. Keep in mind, however, that if you turn up the level, your opinion might be different.

 

Of course, what we're discussing here is personal preference overlapped with room acoustics, loudspeaker location, listener location, program materials and listening levels... So, the conclusions you reach for your system (or that we reached in when we created the automatic settings) may not be applicable to others. This is why we put in so much user-control in the Advanced Menus, particularly in the Bass Management section of the BeoSystem 4. 

Cheers

-geoff

I'd be curious to know how the Beolab 19 worked out for you in conjunction with Beolab 20. 

I have a Beolab 14, and I'm not happy with the performance when it comes to movies. I live in a pretty small apartment and in my view there's no chance that Beolab 14 will satisfy me in a medium to large room. I was looking to upgrade to Beolab20 but your comments have planted the seed of doubt in me.