ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Without the slightest possibility of ANY objectivity, I vote choice #3, sell it to Jeff.
Thanks Henrik and Jacques for your votes (which are genuinely appreciated) and thank you Søren for thinking of me in the first place and the confidence you have in me to care for such an item.
Yes, I definitely vote for choice #3!
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
chartz: Option three also has my vote, obviously.
Option three also has my vote, obviously.
I vote to sell to Jeff as well.
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Ricardo,
Thank you kind sir for your vote, which like Jacques’ and Henrick’s votes, means a lot. It really does.
Owning a Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 has become very important to me, but the opportunity to own this pair restored by Søren is extra special, because Søren is a friend.
This is an amazing group of people here at BeoWorld and I will never forget how Frede “saved” me with my Beogram 4000 providing impossible to find parts and how Martin finished the job correcting a few minor issues AND replacing the incorrect fuse.
I also greatly appreciate how Rich recommended Benny to rebuild my two “not worth repairing” Beomaster 2400 and 4500, both of which give me so much daily pleasure.
Yikes! Rich you rascal taunting the infinitely FAIR Søren with an enticing offer of a profit.
Naturally, the “infinitely FAIR” comment was in no means an attempt to sway Søren’s judgment.
Should I feel the need to “sway” Søren, I can do a whole lot better than that! Let’s see: charming, generous, brilliant….. Hey, I’m just getting started.
Now where did I put that Thesaurus?
Back to the thread, only post if you have help to offer,
I am going crazy here, I have been through all switches they all work as should, some of them a little slow to come down to 0.1-0.2 Ohms resistance but they all get there.
The only thing that works properly is the tape input (switch on/in), everything works volume, balance, filters, mono and speakers 1 and 2.
Any other input gives failures, connected a BG, stereo gives sound in right speaker, mono switchR on gives sound in both speakers, Mono R and L on gives sound in left speaker, Mono L on gives no sound in any speaker
The other inputs except tape the same. I check the inputs and wonder, Tuner and Aux is in my opinion input connections and they are pin 1 and 4, Line out is an output and that one is also pin 1 and 4.
Question: Do I have to make special cables for connections. Or is it another failure. ???
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Jacques
Thank you Jacques, I have used about 5 hours coming to this conclusion, the scratching noise in the left channel was a bad done solder at the emitter of TR 25 (BC109) bypassing cap 28, 2 solder points was connected by a small strand of solder, only visible with a thread counter. Tomorrow onto pin assignment.
I tested with my BG 2404 will check with my BG 1000 tomorrow, that one will be connected to the BL until I get my BG 4002 (still in McAllen TX)
Hi Søren,
Good grief, I can just FEEL your frustration level. Truly, I am sorry. Very sorry.
Sorry too for diverting attention from the MAIN interest of this thread. Jacques was right; my interests in a Beolab 5000 should be separated from the legitimate progression of your repair progress thereof.
That said, thanks Jacques, as always, for being of such a great help to Søren.
Actually, Søren’s difficulties have served as a bit of a catharsis for me. I have a perfectly good Beomaster 1000 awaiting restoration and still I covet a Beolab 5000.
While not remotely in the same league, my Beomaster 1000 should be my first responsibility.
I have enjoyed the common interest in the Beolab 5000 bouncing in-between Søren’s restoration and my search thereof….. I rather suspect Søren has not shared a similar enthusiasm.
Things always look better in the morning, so perhaps I can come up with a suitable improvement with a new day and a vat of coffee.
Søren Mexico: Back to the thread, only post if you have help to offer, I am going crazy here, I have been through all switches they all work as should, some of them a little slow to come down to 0.1-0.2 Ohms resistance but they all get there. The only thing that works properly is the tape input (switch on/in), everything works volume, balance, filters, mono and speakers 1 and 2. Any other input gives failures, connected a BG, stereo gives sound in right speaker, mono switchR on gives sound in both speakers, Mono R and L on gives sound in left speaker, Mono L on gives no sound in any speaker The other inputs except tape the same. I check the inputs and wonder, Tuner and Aux is in my opinion input connections and they are pin 1 and 4, Line out is an output and that one is also pin 1 and 4. Question: Do I have to make special cables for connections. Or is it another failure. ???
I have a suggestion for you regarding your question above.
Please have a look in the (English) service manual of the Beolab 5000 page 9 ->12. This might help to see the signal ways in the Beolab.
You allready found one failure in the left channel (the noise problem) - I am not quit sure if this also solved the missing signal problem?
If not - according to your description your left channel is faulty of course and the problem is before the mono/stereo switch.
I would add a signal (tone) to the left input of AUX - if you like use the phono input and deal with the DIN later on.
Check this signal also arrive at the input of the preamp.
Go backwards until you find the signal again (by the use of the circuit diagram and the schematics on page 9-12).
Possible failures:
The wiring could be wrong.
Broken wire.
We have seen failures of the function switch (inside the switch) - difficult to repair and to find.
This is my suggestions
/Frede
Thank you Frede, I didnt try with a signal, but I went through switches in aux with an Ohm meter, where I couldnt follow them through the diagram, I checked every single switch on the solder side of the switch board, I checked every single switch several times on/off on the solder side and non showed problems, I will go on checking with a signal feed.
Please also check the small finger switches for PHONO - RADIO (level and impedeance).
A lot of signal switching is taking place by the PHONO function switch.
According to your description the left channel is of course the area to look for the problem.
classic: Please also check the small finger switches for PHONO - RADIO (level and impedeance). A lot of signal switching is taking place by the PHONO function switch. According to your description the left channel is of course the area to look for the problem. /Frede
Forgot those
Søren Mexico:Back to the thread, only post if you have help to offer,
Understood.
get out a magnifying glass and look for dries - maybe ? I ran into that issue once-. I am also prone to forget to soldering caps altogether.
After 8 hours more looking for failures I am done for, will leave it a couple of days, in the weekend I will post what I have done searching and how, then give a detailed failure description, and hope for some help. If needed I will strip it down again and start over, or do as I did with the BM 4400.
At the moment I am dizzy from reading schematic and manuals, the FS is pestering me with totally unimportant things I have to do.
Will be back with more on Sunday
Sending positive energy and good Karma your way, sir. Good luck.
I really had hoped that you would be finished with your FS’s duties by now and had an update for all of us.
I know you said don’t post unless you have help to offer, but I figure that you won’t mind my sending my wishes for an “enlightened” solution to your problem or problems.
You are Danish and know they are the best…. you WILL do it.
Now I’ll keep quiet.
I will get it there Jeff, but work vise the sh!t hit the fan and as Xmas comes nearer I have to participate in some "have to be there boring events" this will continue until beginning of January, the good news is that the BL works perfectly with tape in, so the failure is isolated to a few sections. but as my software scope isn't working its difficult to follow the sound path. Will be back when more time is on hand
Yes Søren, we all have experienced the season….. and are.
Tomorrow we are having American Thanksgiving, the whole enchilada with an enormous turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes and gravy, peas, yams, and a pumpkin cheesecake for desert.
It’s a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
As for your Beolab, excellent news that it functions in the TAPE mode. That means you are CLOSE! Very close.
Look forward to hearing what the fault was and how you fixed it!
To be sure I will find the failures and get this BL working properly I had to get a new tool, my Xmas gift to myself, I will get it down here around December 5th, I will then have to learn how to use it, but with all the experts on this forum that should not be a problem, I am already surfing the web "Oscilloscope for dummies" For the interested here
Got my Oscilloscope on Sunday, used Monday and a little on Tuesday to get used to the basics, and today could start using it.
With a square wave signal I checked (signal from computer) at the aux input, OK not clean as the signal when adjusting the probes, but the same in both channels. From there it goes to D on amp II, still OK both Channels, then to base on BC 109, still good both channels, But at F and G the left channel signal goes way down. Checked all components left and right from BC 109 to F and G, no differences L to R, desoldered BC 109 tested with diode tester, shows good.
I must say this is an amazing instrument, wonder why I didnt buy one before.
Any ideas or good advises ?
fr
I haven't had the pleasure to work on a Beolab yet but from what you are showing of the problem I think I would try swapping the two transistors (one at a time) with the right channel and see if the problem follows or remains. You have checked the continuity between the switches involved (and made sure there isn't a path shorted to ground)?
John
1. I would check the DC voltages.
2. re-check the cap's (correct polarity)
3. check for short circuits
4. re-place the transistors (both)
Did you receive my mail ( sent a week ago or so) ?
Didnt have much time to concentrate on this, and will have to go working until the weekend,
I have checked the DC voltages and idle current various times, they are all spot on, but as the signal disappears after BC 109 there could be a short in the switches coming after amp. II the F and G connections goes there, after work today I will check further.
Frede I didnt recieve your mail, please resend to nielsen@nigraph.com
I dont have BC 109 in stock what else can I use there (it will take at least 2 weeks before I can get them)
Hi Soren,
you can use a BC239 or BC549 to rule ou a defective BC109and replace it later with an 'original' BC109.
Ralph-Marcus
Thanks Ralf, I have the BC549 in stock and will replace later if needed, I will go after and change all small TRs that I didnt change yet, keeping the originals is not a priority anymore. but finding the failure before that is.
A day off, and time to get at it again, Ralfs remarks about the transistors got me thinking again, the only thing I didnt check 4-5 times since changing all the black drop TRs was the polarity of the same, so I took a good look at the BC 154 (now BC 560) and yes it was inversed, desoldered checked it and soldered it back in, also the BC 109 came back in, and there it was, I could now follow the signal to the out put amp at the volume out, shifted the square wave signal on the computer to some music from Amazon, perfect very good sound in both channels, connected the BM to tuner, found a good station and success, good sound in both channels, I must say the stereo channel separation is something I never heard before in any of my receivers, even better than the BM 4400, and testing with CX 50 speakers, so now I have Tape, Aux and tuner working, missing the phono, but at the input jack I get a very funny signal using the signal generator from the computer, will have to check jack and plugs again tomorrow, but I am getting very near to have a working BL 5000 system
Here the Oscilloscope pics from the signal at the Aux in jack
And here at volume out to the end amp (different scale)
I am waiting for a DIY signal generator kit I hope this will give me a cleaner signal
It sounds like you are really getting close. Congratulations!
You really WORKED for this one!
Hey Søren...where's the nice action shot(s) of the test connectors hooked up to the Beolab? We have to have some more pics.
sonavor: Hey Søren...where's the nice action shot(s) of the test connectors hooked up to the Beolab? We have to have some more pics. John
Will do John, when I get exited I tend to forget it
It has also been some time since we saw the labor hour sheet...
Martin
Hey Soren is that the new scope ? You certainly havent wasted anytime putting it to good use.
Ricardo: Hey Soren is that the new scope ? You certainly havent wasted anytime putting it to good use.
Yes sir, I am now the proud owner of a Owon scope I should have bought that years ago, when finishing the BL I will have to find out how much more I can do with it, for now I can only do the most basic functions, as I am autodidact on this its heavy work for an old brain to understand all of it, there is a lot on the web, but if you dont have a maostro to show you the practice sometimes you are just guessing.
Biggest problem now is that I am using a software signal generator and I just cant get a clean signal out of the computer, I have ordered a DIY signal generator kit but it is still sitting in customs here in Mexico but at least I can check that I have the same dirty signal coming in as through the circuits.
Søren,
You are far too modest….. WAY too modest.
For the vast bulk of us here on BeoWorld, if we acquired an oscilloscope such as yours, at best we would attempt to comprehend the unit, make lame attempts with its usage, and end of thinking, well it is “pretty.” Then the scope would never see the light of day ever again.
I am sure that I am not remotely alone in watching your work through marvelous photos with a genuine sense of awe. (Someone like me just tinkers, you FIX stuff.)
İSalute!
As Martin is checking on my working hours here the report. If I had had the scope from the beginning I could deduce about 30 hours, but I take that as part of my learning process. An apprentice in DK will use about 3,600 hours (3,5 to 4 years work) before he get his diploma, so I still have a lot of hours to go.
Oh dear!
chartz: Oh dear!
I have had a lot of fun Jacques, and also spend a lot of time investigating on the web, like when Frede told me to use low noise TRs, I went on the web to find out why, also reading the manual several times are included in the hours, comes to it all the cleaning and photo editing for the wire positions and time where I was just sitting there staring at the marvel and thinking. And I learned a lot.
Søren Mexico:Oh dear!
It comes under the old maxim “all education is expensive.”
In all fairness to Søren, can you just imagine what I would have had to charge myself to repair the Beogram 4000? All those endless adjustments. Or wait, worse, the Seeburg M100B jukebox? OMG, merely the thought gives me a migraine.
Unlike Søren I can’t even say I enjoyed it, because I richly didn’t. However that all my equipment now functions properly DOES give me a genuine sense of pride.
You guys (Søren, Jacques, Frede, and Martin) are all experts with training whom I admire, while I am a rank amateur.
I am sure glad Martin never asked me how much time I spent on the BG 4000 because I’d have been too ashamed to tell him.
Søren has done GOOD.