ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
The Xmas came and I had to do the all the obligations a family father is expected to do, but today the family went sight seeing and eating in exotic restaurants, and alone at home I got to it.
The last failure was the phono connection right channel lower than the left one, I knew it was some of the switches acting up, so measured one time more with the oscilloscope, the right channel was 200 mV lower than the left at the entrance to the phono preamp, I went through the switches with an Ohm meter, but no bigger differences ( 0.1-0,3 Ohms) but the lo high to low phono switch was slowly in coming down to 0.1 Ohm,
Last time I went shopping I bought an air spray can, this as a last solution before starting to disarm switches, I put a small drop of Deoxit at the end of the high/low switch, gave the drops a small blast of air, to get it into the switch, left it for 5 min. after working the switch a couple of times, then a little ISP at the end of the switch, again a small blast of air and left it 10 min. to dry.
Left the switch in low position and checked again with the oscolliscope, and there it was left and right same signal.
Here the BL 5000 on the bench, in this pos. it is easy to get at component and solder side of all the PCBs
Here the whole workbench after finishing the last tests and Glenn Miller playing on the BG 2404 with a MMC4 from Axel
Again I could here a better channel separation left/right than on my BM 4400, the BM 4400 is very good but the BL 5000 is better
As you see my workbench is a mess, but as I had to run off and on because total unimportant other work like hanging Xmas dongles and cooking meals I had to leave it all ready to start again.
Here that good old BG 2404, I checked the speed again before connecting
I will come back with more when I have the system in place and connected as it should be, BG 1000. BC 2000, BL/BM 5000 and M70s
I am now enjoying a well mixed cuba
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
I just posted a long thread and it is up for "moderation"
Here the pics and the BL 5000 is now working again, I am not going to write it all again
Hi Søren,
When they are done with “moderation” your long post will appear. I look forward to it.
The point is it WORKS and that is a triumph!
Happy New Year!
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Well done Soren !
You will be delighted with the M70's Søren.
What you did is a resurrection, no less. Bravo!
Jacques
What a great way to celebrate your holiday Soren. Congrats.
Just got back from a quick Christmas trip and saw your finished BL5000 Søren. Congratulations on the restoration. I like the workbench aftermath too. That's what mine usually looks like at the end of a project as well. Now you clean it all up and prepare for the next project.
John
sonavor: Just got back from a quick Christmas trip and saw your finished BL5000 Søren. Congratulations on the restoration. I like the workbench aftermath too. That's what mine usually looks like at the end of a project as well. Now you clean it all up and prepare for the next project. John
I normally prefer a cleaner workbench, with only the tools I need at the moment, on it. Xmas month is a bad time to do restorations, there is just too much going on everywhere, one will have to jump to and fro a lot of times with the shown result of a cluttered workbench, where you dont find anything. I wanted to finish up yesterday but didnt remember where I put the small parts and screws for assembly and didnt see them on the bench.
So I got it all together again, set up in the living room, Tuner works OK but will have to adjust volume levels, phono is normal listening level on 5, tuner is on 1, but sound good, and again I hear better stereo channel separation.
Here the left side of my sound and video furniture
Here playing from Tuner
And here the BG 5000 MMC2 at work
Magnificent achievement Søren. Bravo! I especially liked seeing the Beomaster 4400 in close proximity. Nice touch that.
Have a great New Year!
well done soren!! When I need inspiration I refer to this thread. There is just something about bringing old equipment back to life....its like bringing back the past for me.
Hi Soren,
congratulations for your nice restored BeoLab/Beomaster 5000 combo! What a great showdown for a year!
And many thanks for your great report about the progress. It was as always a pleasure to see how you fight against all odds and the effort you put into your work!.
A happy and succesful new year to you and your FS
Ralph-Marcus
A happy new year to all of you, and thank you to all the help and good advises I have gotten on this BL/BM 5000 restoration.
The system has now been playing several hours with the BG 5000 pizzabox connected and several hours with the BM playing on different radio stations.
The sound is clear from low to high and comparing to my BM 4400 it is like a little livelier, the BL gets warmer (not hot) than the BM 4400 I didnt measure the temp so by feeling I will say around 50°C where the left side is a little warmer (4 big resistors) than the right (transformer side), this after several hours of continued playing.
The BM 4400 has better FM reception than the BM 5000, I didnt do any adjustment in the BM 5000 except for the simple voltage adjustments, so I will have to open it again and try to adjust it with the help of a good tone generator (still on the way) and the scope after learning how to.
Restoration:
Would I do it again, oh yes, I had a lot of fun and learned a lot.
I mounted 2 TRs with wrong pin assignment, in afterthought I can put that to a unclear tech sheet from, I think Farnell, when ever I changed a TR I called up a tech sheet on the web and the sheet in question shows the pin assignment seeing the TR from then top and not like others in a 3D drawing.
I took the BL apart as far as I dared and I will do the same with the next one if it is as dirty as this one, it is also easier to change components with the PCBs out
The biggest problem with this amp is the switch assembly, all incoming signals are going through 2-5 contacts before they goes to the different preamps, all switches are in a semi closed housing and to clean them is nearly impossible without desoldering (some 20 solder points), I am still thinking about how to do that in a better way, I still have a scratchy sound when changing input, good advises will be highly appreciated
I used axial caps as in the original, I will use radial where possible in the next one, with radial caps it is easier to get nearer to the original values.
Here the time sheet, a lot of time was used on the web and thinking about how to find failures until I got the scope, I bought some items from Mouser included in the price but I still have some of these in stock as I bought more than needed.
One more pic because I am proud of it
I was hoping you would post a few more close up shots of the restored components. They look brand new now. You should be proud of the accomplishment. The Frede supplied fronts almost doubled the cost of the restoration but I would say they are definitely worth it. They look great. Feel free to post more detailed pictures of the units.
-john
I will take some pics inside and out, I forgot it in the last hectic moments when I got exited because everything was working. I will have to do this the next couple of days, because I have to work a lot in January, as luck will in the north of Mexico, so with a little luck I should be able to pic up my BG 4002 and Beocord RtoR 1200.
A happy new year to all you vintage BeoVirus infected beoworlders, here my firework, (click for full size) there are a little more here
And the BM 5000
Yay! Those are nice Søren.
Thanks
Wow, wonderful work Søren, beyond impressive!
Great pictures of meticulous workmanship.
Happy New Year everyone!!
WOW...its wonderful to look at!! Great work!!
Welcome to the Beolab 5000 Owner's Club, at last! (oka B5000OC)
I see that, like me, you could not get entirely rid of the old Beomaster 5000's feet marks.
Now you need to find the rest... The Beovox 5000/2500. I had to wait two years for that.
Missing for me : the Beogram 3000 , either Thorens or Acoustical. But not holding my breath on that one. I saw a Thorens one on ePay, but at € 1500 I gave it a wide berth...
Happy New Year everyone!
Soren has definitely joined the Beolab 5000 Owner's Club through sweat, tears, and real determination! Bravo Soren! Salute!
I hope one day to join this select group, if there is still room for me and I am getting closer to this goal, but patience is required. Instant gratification has never been part of my life....but that's OK as delicious anticipation makes the reward all the more desirable. (At least that is what I keep telling myself.)
Happy New Year guys!
Outstanding work Soren. May you enjoy a lifetime of listening enjoyment.
Søren Mexico: Assembled I check both tracks with an Ohmmeter. Here the very dirty balance poti, Someone also put a lot of grease everywhere in there, I like my tracks dry and clean, the carbon tips dont need lubrication, and grease or oil may damage them.
Assembled I check both tracks with an Ohmmeter. Here the very dirty balance poti, Someone also put a lot of grease everywhere in there, I like my tracks dry and clean, the carbon tips dont need lubrication, and grease or oil may damage them.
Hello Sören,
I have started a restoration of my Beolab 5000, inspired by your high-class work!
Right now I have desoldered the sliding potentiometers, but I am a bit unsure where the little copper plate should go? (in your pic #4, placed left of the sledge.) It popped off when I took things apart and I havent been able to see where it should sit. Could you help me out and try to describe where it should be placed?
Best Regards and hoping you are enjoying your beolab 5000!
Simon
If I remember right, the holes in the slider for the shafts are different, for one shaft a little oval and thats where the copper spring goes, between shaft and middle part of the slider, also make sure the slider is inserted correctly inside tracks are offset to one side. Good luck with your project and we love pics
Thank You for that quick reply.
Here a picture of the first two sliders, bass & treble. If you look close you can see that as Sören say the two holes on the sledge are a bit different. The right hole is oval. That is where the copper spring fits! BUT there were a copper spring only on one of the sledges. Sören: Were there copper springs on all your sledges?
Simon Bring:Were there copper springs on all your sledges?
Yes in all of them
Thank You. Not the worst part to replace, luckily.
*************** Found it! I have to be more attentive... Delicate work, this! ******************
I have now put back the sliders, all clean. Next I plan to replace all capacitors.
Did you put together any list of parts to replace that you would like to share?
So far I have found these to be replaced:
Your list is more or less like mine, I have a handwritten list, but ended up with a kit (all axial) from Martin, my BL works good with the kit, but I would list which caps are really needed as axial and get the rest as radial, a lot easier to work with and easier to get within the values.
From Martin I got this conversion table:
4 uF = 4.7 uF
25 uF = 22 uF
50 uF = 47 uF
80 uF = 100 uF
160 uF = 220 uF
200 uF = 220 uF
400 uF = 470 uF
Where possible I would go for radials 105°C, Nichicon or Panasonic, the orinals are all 20% so keep within the margin or go one step up in uF and voltage. If I remember right, for the big ones, I went for Nichicon 105°C 2700 uF 100 V and 105°C 3300 uF 63 V
And as I told before change the "Black Drop" transistors with BC 550/560 B or C, (both low noice TRs) and make sure you get the polarity right, I spend some hours searching because or inverted polarity.
Come back with more, it is getting interesting, and remember we are checking on you
Now I have checked what capacitors needs to be axial and I get the following list:
Axial Capacitors, B&O component number first.
Comp. number Capacitor pcs.
The rest are, or can be, radial.
Could you please double check with your list ? There are a few that I am not 100% sure about since I have not desoldered them yet.
I found a really good site to order through right here in Sweden, it is http://www.mouser.se/Passive-Components/Capacitors/_/N-5g7r/
Your values uF/V are as mine, amounts are with few differences, but there are differences in the build series. as for axial and radial, I have no lists separating as I went all axial, I buy nearly all my electronics by Mouser US. The axial values will be hard to match, but step up to the nearest possible, and check prices, there are big differences between brands and values
Hi,
I must say that I haven't replaced any transistors in mine. It is silent - no crackles or anything funny.
We are indeed following, even when silent!
Hi Søren & Jacques,
I admit most of this goes right over my head, but I still find it fascinating.
Today a package from Mouser arrived! I bought Nichicon and Panasonic. I have now replaced all capacitors on one of the circuitboards. I noticed that I had ordered radial where it should be axial on one place so far. I will get back with a correct list of radial/axial along with the updated specs on each capacitor and other components that are wise to replace while in there.
It was funny they had some capacitors sold as "Gold Tune" and others that were audio specialized. Not more expensive so I bought some.
Pretty big difference in size though, I did not check that before as you did Sören. I would actually like to have the three big ones as close the original sizes as possible. It is hard to secure them in place otherwise. And remember to check polarity on the big ones before removing them...!
Okay!
My own Beolab still runs happily on its original big caps. I find that these original Wicon caps are impressively durable: all my Beomasters still have them in place!
Otherwise I usually use caps that fit, and it invariably means higher voltage - or more expensive ones - but it is not a problem. A good example is the QUAD 303 that absolutely need replacements, unlike B&O amplifiers.
For the big caps I went for the biggest diameter I could get, and with the help of some homemade foam pieces (hard foam mats used for stamping dies in the printing industry) I could use the original supports, my caps are shorter then the originals, it gave more space to make the soldering easier.
The soldering was not very hard, unless for the biggest cap. The positive side had 3 cables soldered onto the pin... I did not want to shorten the cables but I might have to if I want to solder them onto the new pin...
Now I have desoldered all aluminium electrolytes and replaced them with new ones from Nichicon and some Panasonic.
Here is the total list of capacitors changed divided upon radial and axial ones:
Pcs
1