ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Some time ago I compared BL1 and BL18 directly...
If you really want to hear your music as it was intended by the artist, please stay with the BL1.They are the most neutral sounding speakers B&O has ever build. If you compare music from all genres they even outperform the BL5.I often hear people saying the BL1 sounds boring.This is not true. All the speakers that sounds "exiting" like the BL18 or all that other new stuff are not natural enough because they are trimmed to "exicte" the people in the showroom and maybe the first 4 weeks at their home.
BL1 plays in a totally different sphere and is much more audiophile than anybody would expect from B&O. Maybe this is/was the biggest problem of BL1.
There are many opinions on the BL1's - as on any speaker.
And....one could easily (in the above text) exchange the word 'BeoLab1' with 'BeoLab Penta' or something else.
Always listen to speakers at home - and judge for yourself!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Even some guys in Struer say the same about the BL1. So I think there must be a bit of truth in my statement...BL Penta are absolutely not comparable unless you have modified the x-over and the amp.
I also have the BL1s and once I added the BL19 it provided a great deal of improvement. In my opinion much better than the BL18. There is a clarity in the sound that you would not get from the BL18.
BV11-55, BS9000, BL1, BL19, Transmitter 1, Beo4, Beocom 6000, BeoTalk1 200, Sennheiser HD600, McIntosh MHA100
Wasn't the BL2 specifically designed with the BL1 in mind? Since they're second life now might be an affordable option.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Yes, there isn't enough low end for a lot of people.This is because they are trimmed to a very linear frequency response with a precise low end.
Most customers added a BL2 when they bought the BL1. A nice little subwoofer but very difficult to place. It tend to destroy the BL1's precision on the low end.But if it's placed correctly and quiet enough it's a nice addition. Sounds best when fed from a BSys 3 since the integrated filters are a bit to flat for my taste.
Well, the BL19 is easier to place but much too aggressive for listening to music. For watching movies it is okay but at music it is a nogo with BL1 in my opinion. They sound best when they are alone without any sub.
Try to avoid connecting such lovely sounding speakers like the BL1 to a Bsys 4 based TV. It is a difference like night and day compared to a BSys 3, BS 5, ...
BeoMotion:Yes, there isn't enough low end for a lot of people. This is because they are trimmed to a very linear frequency response with a precise low end.Most customers added a BL2 when they bought the BL1. A nice little subwoofer but very difficult to place. It tend to destroy the BL1's precision on the low end. But if it's placed correctly and quiet enough it's a nice addition. Sounds best when fed from a BSys 3 since the integrated filters are a bit to flat for my taste.Well, the BL19 is easier to place but much too aggressive for listening to music. For watching movies it is okay but at music it is a nogo with BL1 in my opinion. They sound best when they are alone without any sub. Try to avoid connecting such lovely sounding speakers like the BL1 to a Bsys 4 based TV. It is a difference like night and day compared to a BSys 3, BS 5, ...
Raeuber:Not my opinion indeed. The BL2 is a very boomy and imprecise subwoofer and destroys the sound quality of BL1 totally. BL2 is only acceptable and funny with action videos with many explosions but not for serious music listening. With BL19 you get a precise and accurate bass, perfect for music listening. I had BL1 for 14 years without a sub before I added BL19 last year and I asked myself how could I live for so long time with speakers without bass. BL19 also masks the clinical sound of BL1, with BL19 the BL1 comes to life and fills the room with music.
Yes, this is in general a problem with BL2. Due to its passiv radiators it is very difficult to place and often you end up with a position you are simply not able to place it permanently. In the correct place there isn't any boomy sound.
With BL19 I wasn't able to reach the same matching level in my living room. Either I couldn't hear it at all or it was too much when comparing different genres.
In general non of the both is a perfect match in general and I am sure it differs a lot from room to room. The most harmonic one and easiest to place is the BL11 in my opinion. Very fast and fine responsiveness but too small for BL1.
Raeuber: BeoMotion: Yes, there isn't enough low end for a lot of people. This is because they are trimmed to a very linear frequency response with a precise low end. Most customers added a BL2 when they bought the BL1. A nice little subwoofer but very difficult to place. It tend to destroy the BL1's precision on the low end. But if it's placed correctly and quiet enough it's a nice addition. Sounds best when fed from a BSys 3 since the integrated filters are a bit to flat for my taste. Well, the BL19 is easier to place but much too aggressive for listening to music. For watching movies it is okay but at music it is a nogo with BL1 in my opinion. They sound best when they are alone without any sub. Try to avoid connecting such lovely sounding speakers like the BL1 to a Bsys 4 based TV. It is a difference like night and day compared to a BSys 3, BS 5, ... Not my opinion indeed. The BL2 is a very boomy and imprecise subwoofer and destroys the sound quality of BL1 totally. BL2 is only acceptable and funny with action videos with many explosions but not for serious music listening. With BL19 you get a precise and accurate bass, perfect for music listening. I had BL1 for 14 years without a sub before I added BL19 last year and I asked myself how could I live for so long time with speakers without bass. BL19 also masks the clinical sound of BL1, with BL19 the BL1 comes to life and fills the room with music. Regards Räuber
BeoMotion: Yes, there isn't enough low end for a lot of people. This is because they are trimmed to a very linear frequency response with a precise low end. Most customers added a BL2 when they bought the BL1. A nice little subwoofer but very difficult to place. It tend to destroy the BL1's precision on the low end. But if it's placed correctly and quiet enough it's a nice addition. Sounds best when fed from a BSys 3 since the integrated filters are a bit to flat for my taste. Well, the BL19 is easier to place but much too aggressive for listening to music. For watching movies it is okay but at music it is a nogo with BL1 in my opinion. They sound best when they are alone without any sub. Try to avoid connecting such lovely sounding speakers like the BL1 to a Bsys 4 based TV. It is a difference like night and day compared to a BSys 3, BS 5, ...
Yes, there isn't enough low end for a lot of people. This is because they are trimmed to a very linear frequency response with a precise low end.
Most customers added a BL2 when they bought the BL1. A nice little subwoofer but very difficult to place. It tend to destroy the BL1's precision on the low end. But if it's placed correctly and quiet enough it's a nice addition. Sounds best when fed from a BSys 3 since the integrated filters are a bit to flat for my taste.
Not my opinion indeed. The BL2 is a very boomy and imprecise subwoofer and destroys the sound quality of BL1 totally. BL2 is only acceptable and funny with action videos with many explosions but not for serious music listening. With BL19 you get a precise and accurate bass, perfect for music listening. I had BL1 for 14 years without a sub before I added BL19 last year and I asked myself how could I live for so long time with speakers without bass. BL19 also masks the clinical sound of BL1, with BL19 the BL1 comes to life and fills the room with music.
Regards
Räuber
thanks for advising on your observation with BL19 - I also have BL1 and BL2 and use BL2 more in movies - as you describe. Gives me pause and a motivation to test out the BL19 with BL1
It's refreshing to see a thread with so many positive comments about the BeoLab 1. No other B&O speaker has been so divisive as the BeoLab 1. People seem to either love it or hate it. I upgraded from the BeoLab 8000s to BeoLab 1s and found that I love the clarity. Many criticize it as "clinical" or "harsh." I've been curious about what B&O's thoughts were when developing this flagship speaker. When asked, Geoff Martin refused to comment. What is it that makes the BeoLab 1 so different? And is this good or bad? I find that I like the BeoLab 1 more for movies than for music. I am using it with a BeoSystem 3 and have 2 BeoLab 2 subwoofers in optimal points so that the bass truly feels non-directional and natural.
beojeff:It's refreshing to see a thread with so many positive comments about the BeoLab 1. No other B&O speaker has been so divisive as the BeoLab 1. People seem to either love it or hate it.
Used BL1's are cropping up more and more of late on eBay and other pre-owned sites. I'm always tempted, but don't because of exactly that: the disparate opinions about the speaker. I'm curious, Jeff, did you audition them before purchasing them, or was it sound unheard? :-)
Raeuber:Yes, BeoMotion, the ideal sub for BL1 depends much on the room (size and insolation) and also the kind of music; with classical music you can live without a sub, but with rock or pop music a sub is a 'must have'. Regards Räuber
Every loudspeaker, that is used for content with frequenzies below, what it can deliever, need a sub for these frequenzies.
These frequenzies don't care if the content is from a movie, a piece of classical or rock or pop music.
It is about delievering these frequenzies as an addition to what the actual main loudspeaker can.
It is a widespread mistake, that the subwoofer is needed for 'boosting' certain parts of the frequenzies.
That said - some people like that (for certain kinds of material). I can't really argue against it 😉
beojeff:It's refreshing to see a thread with so many positive comments about the BeoLab 1. No other B&O speaker has been so divisive as the BeoLab 1. People seem to either love it or hate it. I upgraded from the BeoLab 8000s to BeoLab 1s and found that I love the clarity. Many criticize it as "clinical" or "harsh." I've been curious about what B&O's thoughts were when developing this flagship speaker. When asked, Geoff Martin refused to comment. What is it that makes the BeoLab 1 so different? And is this good or bad? I find that I like the BeoLab 1 more for movies than for music. I am using it with a BeoSystem 3 and have 2 BeoLab 2 subwoofers in optimal points so that the bass truly feels non-directional and natural.
http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2013/12/13/bo-tech-what-are-subwoofers-really-for/
BeoLab 1 is the only Bang and Olufsen speaker I've ever owned that I absolutely hated and I hated it because it CAN NOT produce the lower octaves properly and so many make the excuse that this is "because it's reproducing what the artist intended". It was this fallacy that angered me so, because I found myself repeating it to person after person who I would bring in to listen to my BL1s who all came away disappointed with such a big beautiful speaker's performance. I wasted *so much* time moving these beasts, nearly slicing my fingers taking off the damn frets to get to the fine tuning controls inside, spend even MORE money buying a Beolab 2 in the false belief that it would help... All because I kept being under the impression that there must be something wrong with my ears and not the speaker! In fact, it seems to just do AWAY with those low frequencies in most cases because it can't reproduce them. I feel almost as though when the BL1 came out they overcompensated for the Penta 3s shortfalls in being a "bass bloomy" speaker. And I'd say I come from a pretty reasonable standing when it comes to speakers as I've owned over time during my Beo-Odyssey before I finally settled on my favorites:
*Beovox S80.2 (about equal to my disdain for the BL1, never could stand them. Gave them away).
*Beovox RL6000 (party speaker. A "toy", but a fun one)
*Beolab Penta Mk3 2nd Version
*Beolab 8000 Bass Revision
*Beolab 2500 (these are incredible performers for their size)
*Beolab 6000 (2nd least liked speaker after S80.2/BL1)
*Beolab 5
*Beolab 1
*Beolab 2 Subwoofer I bought to "fix" the damn BL1 (blech, don't do this).
*Beolab 4000 (also good for its size)
*JBL XPL140 from 1990 powered by various components since I bought them secondhand in 2005.
*Bowers and Wilkins 802 Diamond with McIntosh MC601 600w Monoblock amps and McIntosh pre, McIntosh MT10 Turntable
You get the picture.
I always find it hilarious when people make the claim that a true studio monitor won't have bass response because "that's the way the artist intended it". This seems to be a pervasive excuse throughout the audio industry. Even using simple songs like Hotel California and especially it's live versions, "Billie Jean" by Michael Jackson etc... Tracks that are a standard for bass response and well produced, the BL1s completely and utterly fail at reproducing the true thundering and precise, yet not BOOMING bass that is in those tracks and in the strumming of guitars etc. When it comes to bass you can "feel" in your chest, the BL1s simply don't have the ability to produce it. I currently have BL5s and Penta 3s and without question the Penta 3s have a bass bloom which is not always subtle, but it's still a far more well rounded presentation than the extremely clinical sound my BL1s had. If you offered to trade BL1s for my Pentas I would politely decline. It is possible to make drivers and speakers so neutral that you make them accurate to certain frequencies while simply throwing away others that are still critical. You can become so focused on *clarity*, in which the BL1 does excel, that you just ignore the lower end for fear of muddying the clarity that you worked so hard to create. This is not a proper solution.
On the flip side of this argument. There are people who claim the BL5 is also "bass light". Now this is much more debatable, because you can't say it's lacking for bass power or a proper bass driver! Probably one of the biggest bass drivers still produced in the industry today with its Peerless 15 inch driver down there and a *true* 4 way design. There is such a thing as inaccurate and bloated, booming bass. This ruins the music and colors other frequencies. The BL5 does not exhibit this. It is a studio monitor worthy speaker.
Worse yet, as has been discussed previously in this thread, was the assertion perpetrated throughout B&O or SOMEONE at the time that the BL2 was a good solution to fixing the BL1s problems. NOT THE CASE. The BL2 is a HOME THEATER subwoofer. It is absolutely and utterly deplorable for music! It doesn't even roll off properly from the BL1 to begin with. Don't make this mistake.
I made some good friends on this forum here when I originally made my BeoLab 1 adventure. People who swear by them. These are good people who know music well and are not wrong for loving the BL1. But I simply disagree with the assertion that because the BL1 doesn't produce bass, that it's bass you should just "do without" because the artist didn't intend for you to hear it. Hogwash. So my lengthy opinion on BL1 versus Beolab 18 from my experiences with the Beolab 8000? Beolab 18 all the way. It's not a world class speaker, but it will give you more enjoyment pound for pound than the BL1 ever will in MOST cases for MOST types of music. It will not reproduce the higher octaves with the precision of the BL1 but it doesn't matter, you'll likely never find overall music enjoyment to the level you would with the BL18. BL1 is also extremely and I do mean EXTREMELY placement sensitive, and some people just won't have a workable spot for them in their household. All of these reasons led to the very early demise of this speaker, sandwiched between models which lasted 14 years (Penta) and running on 12 years (BeoLab 5) respectively.
I should also add something here...
To the original poster, I just realized he already *has* Beolab 1s which he (apparently) likes. In this scenario I would not say go to all the trouble of replacing an entire BeoLab 1 surround system. If you like what you have leave it alone. If you were asking me and you had neither, I would stay with my original advice. Mind you, I sold my BeoLab 1s for something like 2000.00 (my memory is vague on this now) for the pair after transport costs, or ebay fees or whatever it was, so with diligence in searching you could probably get BeoLab 1s for FAR less than the retail cost of a pair of BL18s. But my synopsis is based on sound, not cost.
Raeuber:I absolutely agree with you, Playdrv4me. Beolab 1 without a sub or with BL 2 sub are no good solutions. BL 1 without sub are not able to produce bass (although I setted bass level in Beosystem 3 to maximum), and BL 2 sub is terrible for music listening. But as already mentioned BL 1 matches perfectly with BL 19, I am absolutely happy with this solution. Regards Räuber
But as already mentioned BL 1 matches perfectly with BL 19, I am absolutely happy with this solution.
I would love to hear this! If there truly is a sub that blends nicely with the BL1s, my opinion could be swayed.
Playdrv4me:I would love to hear this! If there truly is a sub that blends nicely with the BL1s, my opinion could be swayed.