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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello all, I'm new here and live in Japan,
My current turntable is a Thorens TD160 with a Rega arm which I restored and it looks great to say it was a spontaneous Ebay purchase. Now I've made another such purchase, a Beogram 8000. I have read enough to realise that these machines need plenty of TLC after 30+ years.
My first question is basically, What is the first order of business when the turntable arrives? I understand that it is working and in "excellent condition" with a MMC20CL cartridge with the original protector.
Beyond that, I don't know much else...
Any initial pointers appreciated.
Thanks
Jacques
etype76: ...a Beogram 8000. I have read enough to realise that these machines need plenty of TLC after 30+ years. My first question is basically, What is the first order of business when the turntable arrives? I understand that it is working and in "excellent condition" with a MMC20CL cartridge with the original protector.
...a Beogram 8000. I have read enough to realise that these machines need plenty of TLC after 30+ years.
Thanks,
The Thorens/Rega is a nice setup, but I'd like to try a different beast.
I'm knowledgeable in so far as I can follow instructions and put myself on a learning curve, but my parameters are pretty narrow. I did the tiniest amount of soldering on the Thorens but looking at the thread you mention on restoring the Beogram 8000, that's in a different class.
I requested the seller pack and ship the turntable with the platter off and under the unit, but beyond that I don't hold out much hope that the cartridge will be off too. Actually, maybe a good thing rather than the seller pulling it off and causing damage that way ;/
Yes, "working" can be interpreted widely ;) Best case scenario is that it plays a record, next is that it has power and the tonearm moves! I guess I'll find out in a week...will keep you posted and put up a pic.
If the turntable is already packed and shipped then there is nothing to do but wait and see. Hopefully he packed it with similar precautions (except for the cartridge) as this thread I created to show how to pack these turntables. That thread shows a Beogram 8002, not the Beogram 8000, but the factory packing is almost identical. When I get time I will post some pictures of how to pack those turntables when the original packing materials aren't available. The purpose of the thread though was to demonstrate some key elements of the turntable protection like locking down the chassis, removing the cartridge and making sure the platters can't bounce around.
Good thread on the packing of the 8002, I didn't realise that the platter could be shipped under the dust cover, I told the seller to pack it under the unit (I think I'd read that on Beolover) but then he didn't have the original styrofoam packing. This seller does.
I have a question about the dust cover and lid. Are both fixed to the unit by hinges? How prone are they to breakage? I've been lucky with the Thorens, both plastic hinges are still in tact. I've seen some posts mentioning 3D printing; when that becomes more widespread it's going to be brilliant I reckon.
Removing the platter and packing it separately is fine and a good practice if the original Styrofoam pieces are not available. However, there is a sub-platter that will then be exposed and could come off during a shipment so there needs to be some filler for that area underneath the dust cover to prevent anything from coming off and bouncing around.I am not real fond of the Beogram 8000 and 8002 dust cover. The 400x series dust covers were really nice the way they could easily be removed. These 800x dust covers essentially snap in place and can be a little difficult. One big problem is if the plastic tabs break off. So when completely detaching the dust cover, be real careful when popping the plastic tabs loose. To completely disassemble the dust cover requires pulling out the long hinge rod (I haven't ever done that yet).
sonavor
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Already, before the turntable arrives I suspect that the suspension in the cartridge is worn. Judging by this photo from the seller, it's off to the left of centre. As I said, I haven't had any experience with these decks.
Dave Farr:But the photo isn't taken from directly above.
I agree with Dave. I checked mine with the same angle; your MMC looks fine to me. Now of course this doesn't say anything about the stylus.
Thanks for the input,
It's been a few days and the tracking showed the package went to quite a few locations before arriving this morning. It was shipped via Ebay's GSP and UPSs i-parcel. Despite the awful reviews online I contacted them with a question and they replied within 10 minutes and included a new tracking number for Sagawa Express for the last few miles in Japan. The box arrived in good shape I'd say, no squished corners. The was an absence of 'Fragile' notices on the box. I thought not a good sign, To my surprise the seller had double boxed the 8000 with the platter off. Pretty well packed in styrofoam and plastic. The bad news was that it had been shipped with the suspension free and the cartridge on. Then again, I knew the seller was no B&O expert.
Overall, the deck is in as described condition, excellent. cosmetically good, dust cover untracked, no swirl scratches. Wood in near perfect condition. I rather unsightly dent on the edge of the tonearm lid, that was pointed out in one of the seller's photos. It came with a basic DIN to RCA cable. I plugged it in and 33.33 and 45.00 came up on the display. A check of the tachodisc clearly shows that it is shot, so much so that it makes a noise as the plastic goes around. You can see from the photo what I mean. So I should order a stainless one. Someone has removed much of the adhesive on the deck as both facia around the platter and tonearm lid are unattached.
I quick check of the stylus with the micro-nikkor shows the tip to be in good condition, but I don't have a microscope. The cantilever of pretty much central, I don't know about the suspension. I guess what is left is to play a record, but the tachodisc is in such bad shape perhaps I should wait for a replacement?
Could someone tell me what else I should be checking? I guess the capacitors are original too. Please check out my pics below.
And this one
And the tachodisc I'm sure some of you will recognise this condition:
Very good!
There's not much risk trying the deck with a partially damaged tacho-disc.
I'd say, go ahead, at the very least you'll know about the cart's condition. An MMC20CL must present no distorsion, even on torture tracks, even on the last track. It is not the most explicit cartridge in the treble, but it should be very clear and precise (detailed).
I've tried to play a record but not having much luck, trying through a Creek phono pre-amp. Cables were even picking up radio and I don't even have a receiver. I'm using a low power tube amp. The tonearm reaches the edge of a record on first plug in, and can be tracked back and forth using the arrows. The arm also drops down. But there seems to be intermittant power loss, the display frequently flashes 33. or 33.33. The tonearm does not seem to want to come out to the edge of the record on 2nd or 3rd attempt. I'm wary of damaging the cantilever if I permit before doing further investigation.
Well, I got some music out of the 8000, just a few seconds before there seemed to be a loss of power. The display went blank (no dot in the display) and the arm froze, then power restored and the arm made its way back home. A second attempt to press play only resulted in the arm moving a cm towards the platter. The display flashes either 33.33 or just 33.
I've already ordered a new tachodisc and capacitor kit. I would also like to clean up the shaft and spindle of the tonearm and relubricate it. I am thinking that this player is definitely worth bringing into fully working condition again. I am trying to ask around for any electrical wizards, otherwise, I will have to get out my soldering iron. You'd think such a thing would be easy in Japan, not so! As for HiFi repair shops, they'll take one look at it and say 'dekimasen' (it can't be done.) I've been there before.
Perhaps the PSU block's contacts are erratic. Check that it is sitting properly in its housing, and also check the solder joints between the PSU and the main PCB. Those are often found cracked.
Well, things may come to a halt here. I guess I overlooked the fact that the U.S. mains frequency is 60Hz (My 8000 is 120V @ 60Hz) and here in Tokyo it's 50Hz. I could uproot my family, change jobs and go to Osaka (60Hz) . I've searched around this forum and the net and I don't see any solutions. I notice in the service manual in the list of parts there are two shafts available, one for 50Hz and one for 60Hz, not sure how they differ or what that actually means.
With the Thorens it was already 50Hz and I just shorted a resistor so could run it at 100V.
Since I've bought it, I'm going to get on with the restoration. I'll start by cleaning some of the dirt/grime from the chassis. It's surprisingly not too bad. Could someone help me and advise me on how to detach the transformer and main PCB? I can see that it is clipped into place, I'm not sure if the screws are also holding it. I obviously don't want to force anything.
Thanks!
Just push it straight from below. It will come out from the top of the deck, underneath the right alu lid.
Great thanks, That transformer is larger than I had assumed, but yeah it popped right outta the top! I've had a look at the PCB and it has all the original capacitors (W. Germany etc.) So I will wait for Martin's kit before doing anything else on the PCB. Interestingly, when I put the deck into the service position I noticed a small steel tubular object loose and stuck by the brass lever that allows access to the tacho-disc. I thought it looked quite important but couldn't imagine where it came from...until I lifted the tonearm assembly to one side. The upper shaft seemed to be missing that 'tube' on the right side, the left side has one. I'll bet someone attempted to do something and lost that piece. Anyway, I've cleaned the spindle and will apply some oil or silicon grease if I can get my hands on some.
Just a question about the tonearm assembly, when I lifted it there was a white plastic bushing on the spindle, how do I make sure it is in the proper place when I drop the tonearm assembly back down?
Cheers
Today, I installed the new tachodisc from Martin and began the recapping. I've managed to replace 6 capacitors so far, though I might leave the awkward looking 2200uf one till last. Will continue hopefully tomorrow if I get time. It definitely helps to take pics along the way, I had to refer to them a few times to check polarity and cap type. Martin's colour coded PCB copy is very useful. I have no testing equipment of any kind, just a soldering iron, solder pump, needle nose pliers, just the basics really. Should be interesting when I plug the 8000 in. I've got the board on a Nagaoka anti static record sleeve. The biggest trouble was from that black screw that holds the CPU metal casing. It simply wouldn't move, I went to the 100yen store and got a 30cm philips and it came right out with a bit of torque. I also reflowed the connectors to the transformer but will do most of the reflowing after recapping. When I'm done, I'd like to put up some pics and have you guys take a look and see if you can spot any glaring errors before I plug it in.
Slow progress today, I have replaced the capacitor in the CPU box. This one is very tricky, soldered on both sides of the board and perilously close the microprocessor. It is also confusing for someone who is simply 'removing parts and replacing them'; this one threw up a couple of issues. The capacitor seemed to have a red and blue wire going from it. it's such a confined space, it's hard to tell. Anyway, I desoldered these two wires to the new capacitor pins and then inserted the new cap and soldered it. Is this correct? or am I way off? I soldered the red wire to the + and blue to the -. The wires were leading from the speed variation module.
first pic is as I found it, and then prior to insertion and then finished soldering on the board.
The new capacitor 47uf ready to go into C28
C28, soldered into place
Well done so far. Yes, the processor can requires meticulous attention. You did well!
Not going anywhere till the deck is up and running!
Cheers, it won't win any beauty contests but the joints seem stable. As you can see, Capacitor C28 will sit a bit high, I wanted it closer to the board, butI'd spent so long on recapping it I thought it would do. I also thought, If i need to back to it it will be easier to remove.
Here's a pic of the tonearm spindle I took a few days ago, can anyone tell me what the plastic thing on the spindle is, and where it should go? I realise now that the tonearm assembly wasn't correctly in place because it simply pulled up with a gentle wiggle. I've now reattached the silver end to the shaft and clipped it in place. There was also a tiny brass tube floating around in the chassis too.
That could be a problem, though it did work and play when it first arrived and I haven't found any broken bits yet. Hmm, the service manual only shows me the exploded diagram and I can't quite make out the details. Here's a pic of the underside of the assembly. What are the forks made of? Metal, plastic?
etype76: That could be a problem, though it did work and play when it first arrived and I haven't found any broken bits yet. Hmm, the service manual only shows me the exploded diagram and I can't quite make out the details. Here's a pic of the underside of the assembly. What are the forks made of? Metal, plastic? Cheers
It is a major problem because that is how the tonearm assembly works. Here is a picture of the black, plastic rail guide attached to the white, threaded, plastic nut that travels the drive shaft to move the tonearm.
Here is what it looks like when it is in place with the tonearm assembly and the drive shaft. Note that these pictures are of a Beogram 8002 but the transport mechanism is essentially the same. I didn't take pictures of this area when my Beogram 8000 was disassembled. I have another Beogram 8000 that I will be restoring in a month (or two) and I will make sure to capture this area in more detail.
Here is the tonearm assembly with the drive shaft and rails removed to show where your missing guide goes.
Thanks for the pics John. Very useful for our friend here!
Yes, thank you! it was attached to the rear shaft, really out of the way with the forks pointing to the back of the unit, luckily, they're in tact. I think I've fitted back on correctly now and the whole assembly is under the tonearm lid once again. I decided to plug the unit in, the red dot on the display lit up and the inner platter rotated, I heard the tonearm servo. I unplugged it as I didn't want to cause (further) damage. Not sure what this means but I'll continue with the recap over the weekend.
Pretty good progress today, I have soldered all but one (the largest 2200uf / 63v) capacitor. I also managed to reflow/resolder all the joints near the connectors, basically the areas marked red on Martin's cap location chart. The second largest cap of the same value was an odd thing, on the trace side, C24. The lines indicating where the cap was and the holes were filled with solder but the actual pins were through two other holes next to them. The polarity was also different from that marked on the board. I soldered the new cap exactly as the old one was (Sorry, no pic at the moment) it does look exactly the same as one one on Sonavor's board. I'll solder C27 exactly the same as well.
Yes, there are such mistakes sometimes. You did the right thing. In case there's a doubt, the circuit diagram will of course give the answer immediately.
On the large 2200 capacitor I like to pull the metal mounting ring off the original capacitor (pair of needle nose pliers) and use that as a base for the new capacitor that just has two leads. That makes the install a little easier. The circuit board was designed for that type of capacitor. The positive lead goes through the center hole and the negative lead is bent and soldered to the metal base.
Here is a picture of the Beogram 8000 main board trace side where C27 is soldered. The three negative posts shown are where the mounting ring leads are soldered.
Here is the C27 mounting ring ready for reuse with the new capacitor.
This picture is with the new capacitors in place.