ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
It is not the first time, that Børsen has announced this.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Yar, it's on the official site. But I thought that it had been for sale for over a year now???
http://az498215.vo.msecnd.net/static/files/1507_F_UK.pdf
http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/17472.aspx
Ferdinand:@Vikinger, sorry for the double dipping. Will remove my thread soonish, didn't see yours when inposted mine.
Not my thread Ferdinand! Don't worry, as Mika says in the other thread, evidently of little interest to anyone!
Graham
"The retailer has posted annual losses over the past three fiscal years as more people listen to music on their mobile devices and after failing to attract younger consumers."
I hope the buyer will not just be buying the badge.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
I would think the loudspeaker portion of the business would be the most interesting part left. Maybe Scan Speak is interested?
Scan Speak was bought out by Eastern Asia Technology (HK) Limited which is a fully owned subsidiary of Eastern Technologies Holding Limited ("KYET"). KYET was established in 2011 as a group of companies listed on the Taiwan Stock Exchange (TSE stock code: 5225) and is an offshoot of an original group of companies that were formed in 1971.
KYET is an OEM/ODM speaker systems and earphones manufacturer and possesses the most comprehensive acoustic, structural and driver development and engineering team in the industry. They are a strategic partner, and co-develop new products with the top five international audio-video electronics brands. KYET is committed to provide the highest quality and most efficient professional services via its endeavors to enhance its core competency and competitiveness, and by keeping abreast of the market trends.
I guess we all have seen this coming for years now. It is difficult for a small Company in a World, where fewer and fewer people are buying audio systems. Where the prices of flatscreens are going down and down. Any Company can make a good looking flatscreen tv. The only reason to buy a B&O tv is that you love the brand - or because the sound is better than any other flatscreen...But then Again - most people use external speakers, or live with the flat sound - or buy a soundbar. The Company needs Money - and Tue has been buying some time by selling off the parts of the Company that actually made some Money, like the Automotive division etc. There is nothing more left than the core business audio/video, with a few expensive Tv models, a few audio "masters"/controllers, the BeoPlay range with with "low price" (but good quality) headphones and "portable speakers" made in China - and offcourse the Beolab speakers.My guess is, that the buyer of Bang & Olufsen will continue with the Beolab speakers and some of the Beoplay range. Maybe they will make some cheaper TV sets. A bit like Loewe - not as cheap as most Sony, LG or Philips Tv's - and not as expensive as the Beovisions of today.
The days of Bang & Olufsen as we know it is definitely over... sad, but true.
Steffen: The days of Bang & Olufsen as we know it is definitely over... sad, but true.
Wow - already preparing for a funeral feast - I see no corpse.
Millemissen:Wow - already preparing for a funeral feast - I see no corpse.MMThere is a tv - and there is a BV.
But only yesterday I saw an advert to start your own Bang & Olufsen showroom on LinkedIn for any given part of the UK with only a 50K investment needed and financial help from B&O if needed! I was surprised to see that!
These are the times we live in unfortunately. Pretty funny a few months ago people talking about why doesn't B&O release a new turntable.... As I said then, it would be the last thing on their mind.
Very annoying that the company is up for sale. Moving a lot of the production to China was the first step I guess. I would of thought that with clever management and their strong headphone and car audio market, they should be able to keep their heads above water.
Sadly not.
Maybe the engineers knew this and that is why BL90 was such an engineering tour de force. Make a spectacular loud speaker using large resources and budget because once the take over happens, you won't get the opportunity again.
Very few large independent European based companies left now in the world.
I take my hat of to Campagnolo! Still all self contained in Italy including production. This is the reason I continue to buy high end Campagnolo.
Usually, high end company buy outs turn out bad for the purchased company when it comes to maintaining their previous quality and deign. Seen where Lancia is now? Popping out rubbish. I'm sure you can add to the list as well. There is plenty of examples.
Sometimes it turns out good. Audi and Lamborghini's buyout by VW did both company's a world of good.
We will have to see what happens. Hopefully the terms of sale are in B&O's favour and they will be owned only in name, not in soul.
linder:People who were planning to make major purchases of B&O products in the near future may not be inclined to buy anything.
This thread was a shock... Though, I think B&O will take care of their customers regardless of what happens. They had better! -- I've got a delivery coming in less than two weeks. he he he
Maybe they should have exchanged the top management including Tue a long time ago!He just made the typical crap moves of managers that don't see the real world (outsourcing, firing people, selling divisions that bring in money...).Too many mistakes and now the company is finished... which was visible a loooong time ago, too. I thought he studied economics and has experience... where is it gone!?He missed or failed to invest in the core points of Bang & Olufsen!So sad...
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:The market doesn't seem that bothered, quite the opposite. Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Beovision 8-32, Avant RF 28, Beolab 9, Beolit 15, Beoplay A2, Beocom 2, Beotime, H6, Form 2.
Cooker: Maybe the engineers knew this and that is why BL90 was such an engineering tour de force. Make a spectacular loud speaker using large resources and budget because once the take over happens, you won't get the opportunity again.
Times were rather different, when the decision to make the BL90 (or rather, what became the BL90 in the end) was made 5 years ago.
Why do you make such a hoopla conclusion?
That the company/part of the company is for sale is not new - has been announced at multible occasions during the last year.
The Automotive division was sold - fortunately.
For making automotive highend gear and for competing with the other automotive companies in the future, they would have had to invest massively - with money they don't have or need for the core A/V business.
The B&O automotive division is better off with Harmann.
We don't know yet, if or what they are going to 'sell' next.
A wise move would be to get rid of the ICEPower part - to make a deal just like with the automotive division.
Let's wait and see.
I would guess that this time it is a larger player in the tech industry that B&O are discussing with. I don't find its likely that they just will sell of more pieces.
If they strike a deal, I think someone will take a majority share in the company. Someone that can provide some industrial strengh, to fuel R&D, help with distribution, share production capacity etc.
One other option is that someone like LVMH would acquire B&O. That may be less likely, looking at the existing portfolio of LVMH where watches are the most techy things. LVMH would have plenty of skills (and money) in building a luxury brand.
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Hiort: I would guess that this time it is a larger player in the tech industry that B&O are discussing with. I don't find its likely that they just will sell of more pieces. If they strike a deal, I think someone will take a majority share in the company. Someone that can provide some industrial strengh, to fuel R&D, help with distribution, share production capacity etc.
You might (?) be right on that - but which company?
As for the ICEPower part - we don't know anything about, how much that is worth?
it is not a part of the core B&O, so why not sell that first - if there is a buyer.
It would make them more independent, than with selling to/cooperating with/having a major shreholder.
BeoBoy68: Men who are responsible for this situation must be changed. They didn't understand the spirit and core of Bang & Olufsen: Excellence ! No compromise now ! Bang & Olufsen should be only a luxurious brand, made exclusively in Denmark. This is simple and obvious !
Men who are responsible for this situation must be changed.
They didn't understand the spirit and core of Bang & Olufsen: Excellence !
No compromise now !
Bang & Olufsen should be only a luxurious brand, made exclusively in Denmark.
This is simple and obvious !
Why of all would YOU care what happens?
BeoBoy68: Men who are responsible for this situation must be changed. They didn't understand the spirit and core of Bang & Olufsen: Excellence ! No compromise now ! Bang & Olufsen should be only a luxurious brand, made exclusively in Denmark. This is simple and obvious ! Tue Mantoni - CEO Bang & Olufsen
Tue Mantoni - CEO Bang & Olufsen
You are absolutely right!I'll do the job and I'll do it right. We need to take care of formidable people like Geoff Martin etc. The hardest part for me saving Bang & Olufsen? Convincing my wife of moving to denmark
according to the products and nothing special designs in recent years it has been expected as second way down.average designs, average quality, too many Chinese production involvement, poor management of the company, recession, price of products, especially TV appliances, and again ... lack of good designs which were in the good times frontrunner of B & O (Beosound overture, 2300, 3000, beosound 9000, BL 8000, BL5, and some designes before that....
Who will give 35,000 euros for BL 90 ?.not many
I queried the value of ICEpower, but it went to moderation a long time ago. The Olive One has class D amplifiers that are only 10 mm square.
Well, that very similar post did not go to moderation.
The over-sensitive automatic moderation is killing this forum. By the time a post is approved the content is often no longer relevant.
It's all interesting BUT YOU GUYS are having THE IDENTICAL conversation that you had with each other this time six months ago, and a year ago and so on. There is nothing you can do. The fact is in 2015, 14, 13, 12, 11, 07 - People are NOT BUYING into this brand. Software problems, cheaply Made in China from a premium Danish manufacturer. The company lost its roots, its DNA. Even Loewe STILL assemble in Germany. The CEO's were greedy - they could not care a damn about their rich customers - all they were interested in was pure profit - just look at that junk of a Moment, PLAY products that can not be repaired. What does that tell you? When a Danish company starts manufacturing in China it means that it could not care less about its own staff and wants to exploit humans for the lowest denominator - money, profit and greed. I have no sympathy for humans who act this low.
In fairness to Tue Mantoni, if you're dealt two fives and a three you can't shout "BlackJack" !!
You can only work with what you're given, and he was given a mess. They'd previously ridden the brand and the reputation like a horse through the desert. The horse wasn't fed, it wasn't given any water, and it was handed over laying on the ground staring death in the face... then we expect him to be having it winning the Prix De l'Arc de Triomphe a week later. It's unrealistic.
You look at the business model and make your decisions based on exactly what you have in front of you. What he had in front of him was a company ready to go bust. So, do you stick to the brands core values and let it die, or are you forced to deviate to keep it alive that bit longer so you can take stock and have a little bit longer to make decisions.
If production was still solely in DK there would be no Bang & Olufsen. I'd rather have B&O still exist to complain about than to not have it at all...
We're at a potential crossroads now where the company could be seen as something worth buying and investing in - not running a mile away from. Rather like a house you're selling, the company has had a lick of paint, some junk has been cleared, and some things have been sold in order to do the place up nicely.
All I hope for is that the buyer will buy the brand and its values, and not ride the horse until it falls over again.
Lee
I have to say that I think if it wasn't for Tue the company would have gone under by now. He has done a brilliant job of bringing in new customers, moving things forward and has a track record. It really annoys me when I hear people say, I could run it better or do a better job - if that's the case when what's your track record in regenerating companies?
You are so correct!!!
In response to the guy that commented on my explanation of the BL90, yes I know the speaker took a long time for R&D, but the domino effect of the company going downhill also took a long time. The writing was on the wall then, the engineers I'm sure knew it and I think the BL90 will never be bettered by the company. It was a Concorde moment for B&O and the last hurrah.
What B&O now need, is a very rich investor who is passionate about the product, its roots and wants to restores the company to its former glory. Gets rid of all the Chinese contacts and employs people who are passionate about the product, not bean counters.
The best things in life are made by people who are passionate about what they do, not passionate about making money.
Any of you guys seen the Porsche company Singer in the USA?? Enough said.
I like what the CEO of Bugatti said about the Veyron production line. He said "Perfect isn't good enough". Passion comes above cost. People who do things the other way round, should stick to managing drink vending machines.
Makes me sick this business with B&O.
Reminds me of one of the many reasons Concorde got shelved, because Airbus decided to discontinue maintaince support. What a joke! The most amazing passenger plane ever made, got shelved into history because of poor management and like B&O, poor decisions made at corporate level, years before the death certificate was signed. This was straight after millions of $$$$$ was pumped into Concordes full refurbishment in 2001.
A BL90 moment??
It will take a lot of $$ and a lot of headaches to bring B&O back to its glory days. It takes more effort to pick yourself up, then to fall down.
I can't see anyone doing this. Seems idiotic people outweigh the passionate quality mindset people in big company's. No doubt the company will limp along for a bit before being put out of its misery.
The finger should be pointed at whoever years ago started the company down this course of self destruction. Like watching a drug addict slowly end their life. The drug in this case, being greed!
Its so sad. How are great company's formed? By passion and a desire to do things a certain way. Take the early beginnings of Lamborghini, Campagnolo, Leica etc all great company's that are still going strong today.
Once the groundwork, foundations and reputation have been set, a company has succeeded and becomes an icon. Then a few generations later, other people have other ideas and ruin a legacy that took decades to build aka B&O.
9 LEE: In fairness to Tue Mantoni, if you're dealt two fives and a three you can't shout "BlackJack" !! You can only work with what you're given, and he was given a mess. They'd previously ridden the brand and the reputation like a horse through the desert. The horse wasn't fed, it wasn't given any water, and it was handed over laying on the ground staring death in the face... then we expect him to be having it winning the Prix De l'Arc de Triomphe a week later. It's unrealistic. You look at the business model and make your decisions based on exactly what you have in front of you. What he had in front of him was a company ready to go bust. So, do you stick to the brands core values and let it die, or are you forced to deviate to keep it alive that bit longer so you can take stock and have a little bit longer to make decisions. If production was still solely in DK there would be no Bang & Olufsen. I'd rather have B&O still exist to complain about than to not have it at all... We're at a potential crossroads now where the company could be seen as something worth buying and investing in - not running a mile away from. Rather like a house you're selling, the company has had a lick of paint, some junk has been cleared, and some things have been sold in order to do the place up nicely. All I hope for is that the buyer will buy the brand and its values, and not ride the horse until it falls over again. Lee
I only partly agree with that: You're right that you can't shout "Black Jack!" with the given cards but the mistake was, that he acted like he had the Black Jack cards!I can not see where Tue did a brilliant job!? He just made typical and common management decisions that you can see in all the struggling companies around the world:- outsourcing- fire people- selling parts of the companies - ...This is an unacceptable behaviour and can be done by every economics student after the 3rd Semester. Did all these steps help or lead in the right direction? As we all can clearly see: NO!Yes, criticizing is easier when you are not in his position, I agree, but from my point of view there where made too many mistakes.There was no need for outsourcing. You think it's impossible? Well, than have a look at the Swatch Group. They managed to regenerate the company successfully and even managed to produce low cost watches (Swatch) in their home country!How much "love" the outsourced software division puts into the products of Bang & Olufsen is visible every time you encounter a new bug in their products or the failing and unrepairable crap they made in China. Beosound 3 died after 5-6 years!? My friends and my wife are laughing that a 600 Euro radio/mp3 player fails after such a short time while showing that Sony, Technics, Panasonic etc. are working fine after >20 years.Nowadays brand reception of Bang & Olufsen: "Overpriced design, no substance!" As much as I love my B&O products but something inside me tells me "They're right, it's not the quality I await from my company!". Regarding the "track record in regenerating companies": Becoming CEO of a company or move into the top management is strongly based on relationships and not mainly on skills. You can be 10 times better than me, but if some of the mentors do like me more I'm getting the job.The company MUST be lead by people who LOVE the company, LOVE the history, LOVE quality, LOVE design and just feel the one passion inside of them: The proudness of working for Bang & Olufsen!Yes, B&O needs money, and they need it fast, but if the money doesn't come from an investor with the passion and love for the brand: Good night.Uuuh, I like this discussion
Paul W:It's all interesting BUT YOU GUYS are having THE IDENTICAL conversation that you had with each other this time six months ago, and a year ago and so on. There is nothing you can do. The fact is in 2015, 14, 13, 12, 11, 07 - People are NOT BUYING into this brand. Software problems, cheaply Made in China from a premium Danish manufacturer. The company lost its roots, its DNA. Even Loewe STILL assemble in Germany. The CEO's were greedy - they could not care a damn about their rich customers - all they were interested in was pure profit - just look at that junk of a Moment, PLAY products that can not be repaired. What does that tell you? When a Danish company starts manufacturing in China it means that it could not care less about its own staff and wants to exploit humans for the lowest denominator - money, profit and greed. I have no sympathy for humans who act this low.
9 LEE:In fairness to Tue Mantoni, if you're dealt two fives and a three you can't shout "BlackJack" !! You can only work with what you're given, and he was given a mess. They'd previously ridden the brand and the reputation like a horse through the desert. The horse wasn't fed, it wasn't given any water, and it was handed over laying on the ground staring death in the face... then we expect him to be having it winning the Prix De l'Arc de Triomphe a week later. It's unrealistic. You look at the business model and make your decisions based on exactly what you have in front of you. What he had in front of him was a company ready to go bust. So, do you stick to the brands core values and let it die, or are you forced to deviate to keep it alive that bit longer so you can take stock and have a little bit longer to make decisions. If production was still solely in DK there would be no Bang & Olufsen. I'd rather have B&O still exist to complain about than to not have it at all... We're at a potential crossroads now where the company could be seen as something worth buying and investing in - not running a mile away from. Rather like a house you're selling, the company has had a lick of paint, some junk has been cleared, and some things have been sold in order to do the place up nicely. All I hope for is that the buyer will buy the brand and its values, and not ride the horse until it falls over again. Lee
Good points TWG!
I can't beleive they sold their car audio division when so many car makers are using their products. How was that a good idea? Just makes them now seem like a cheap nasty company with a high end badge slapped on the car speaker. They did have a good thing going with the car audio stuff and having their products in automobiles that a lot of their customers drove just made sense, adding to the B&O lifestyle image.
Supplying audio to Audi A8's etc is one thing, but branching out into built in laptop speakers?? Honestly? Just going from bad to worse. Anyone with a laptop that is a B&O enthusiest (usually has a Mac) will just use B&O headphones. Such a cheapening of the brand. Will be slapping B&O on kids Fisher Price kids toys soon.
Victorinox is another "in house" company making things in Switzerland. Making high end products in your father land is certainly possible. It just takes the right minded people and passion.
TWG:Maybe they should have exchanged the top management including Tue a long time ago! He just made the typical crap moves of managers that don't see the real world (outsourcing, firing people, selling divisions that bring in money...). Too many mistakes and now the company is finished... which was visible a loooong time ago, too. I thought he studied economics and has experience... where is it gone!? He missed or failed to invest in the core points of Bang & Olufsen! So sad...
Millemissen:You might (?) be right on that - but which company? As for the ICEPower part - we don't know anything about, how much that is worth? it is not a part of the core B&O, so why not sell that first - if there is a buyer. It would make them more independent, than with selling to/cooperating with/having a major shreholder. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.