ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
People have been complaining about the rebadging since the 80's so saying as if its a new occurrence is not true. Personally I think they've been running the company as they always have, its just these days there's a lot more competition and with the internet, a lot information is shared spreading any slight problem to the whole world.
Quality wise I don't think there's been much of a change.....its hard to tell how a product will last until its out there being used by the public. That is the greatest test. A lot of the 80's beovox range started suffering from foam rot 20 years ago.....so then should we say that B&O was manufacturing inferior products even from then? Even with all the issues, 20 years down the line the products are still beautiful then most manufacturers. I always found that B&O products can be over engineered and therefore for sensitive to how they are used. There has always been flops along the way......and there will be in the future.
MS Office is by far the best choice -no matter if on Windows or Mac OS. They are all just computers... no matter which brand or software. But for me e.g. a glossy display is a no go for working. And yes, that's an endless discussion coming up frequently. I agree with you that moving production to China was not a good move and selling it on QVC seems like a further cuffin nail.I think the idea behind B&O play was to attract younger people or maybe people with less money, too, to get an entry into the B&O world. If they are convinced with the quality and reliability of the cheaper PLAY products, they should at some time make the move to upgrade to the real B&O without play. But that didn't seem to work so well if you have for example a look at the A6 review from engadget.com. Ok, I don't think that engadget authors have much knowledge about anything when I read through their "reviews" but there seems to be a big croud of readers that believe everything from the site and I can't remembering reading something positive about a Bang & Olufsen product on their site ever!
Let's see if and how B&O will adress all of these problems... as a CEO I would cure it fast!
I'm pretty sure B&O will continue to do what they have done over the past few decades - survive.
Manbearpig: I'm pretty sure B&O will continue to do what they have done over the past few decades - survive.
I hope so and many other B&O fans will do the same. Maybe I should leave my company and move to Denmark to help surviving. :-)
Stock price is going up. So let's see...
Andrew: Here's an idea - maybe the B&O logo should be removed from the PLAY range and they come up with something else to make it clear that it is a cheaper alternative? It has worked before take Rolex, Panasonic and Toyota?
Here's an idea - maybe the B&O logo should be removed from the PLAY range and they come up with something else to make it clear that it is a cheaper alternative? It has worked before take Rolex, Panasonic and Toyota?
Maybe they can call the brand Peter & Svend with a slight alteration to the logo by removing the bottom portion of the "B" and replace the "o" with "s"!
B&O Dealer in Gulildford has just closed after 20 years theywere the 4th most succesful franchise in the past but i wonder if they will reopen when the new shopping development opens.
NO WAY GUYS, the B&O logo is iconic and is VITAL to the play brand. IT'S NOT TO BE SEEN as a cheap version of a BANG & OLUFSEN. NO WAY, it has to be FANTASTIC in order for the customer to then consider staying loyal to the company rather than moving on because of poor experience with the product. THIS is the range that should excel in every way - sound, design, build and most importantly - customer service.
As an example, I ordered an Apple TV for a friend for Christmas at Midnight last Thursday evening from Apple.com. It was delivered to my house 9.5 hours later all beautifully gift wrapped. How about that for service! In contrast it took B&O THREE days to reply to a simple Email request and then another THREE DAYS to reply to my message. To me, it gave a feeling that they were not bothered about a sale. For a premium priced brand, there's a lot of work to be done that Tue must sort out!
MGBGTV8: B&O Dealer in Gulildford has just closed after 20 years theywere the 4th most succesful franchise in the past but i wonder if they will reopen when the new shopping development opens.
That is very sad news, the guys in Guildford were always really nice and gave great advise.
Paul, it probably took them 3 days to reply, as they have probably read your posts and know it would be 15 years before you bought anything.
I am putting a £1 in a pot Everytime apple is mentioned on here, I should have a pair of lab 90s very soon at this rate.
MGBGTV8:B&O Dealer in Gulildford has just closed after 20 years theywere the 4th most succesful franchise in the past but i wonder if they will reopen when the new shopping development opens.
badgersurf: MGBGTV8: B&O Dealer in Gulildford has just closed after 20 years theywere the 4th most succesful franchise in the past but i wonder if they will reopen when the new shopping development opens. That is very sad news, the guys in Guildford were always really nice and gave great advise.
As I'll keep mentioning, I'm banned from the Bath store (for saying they were being arrogant, before opening) and walk past most lunchtimes on the way back to the office. Rarely see anyone in there! Lovely store, but very quiet.
The irony is, it's really easy to buy from other sources *and* get a discount. Since the Bath store opened, I've bought a BL20 and have an order in for an A6 for January. I'm sure the Bath store is doing so well it can 'afford' to exclude these sales. Good luck to them.
Retailers have got to understand why they are in the market. To make money. A customer goes in, gives them their card, they get goods in return. We're not here to be friends. You don't ban customers unless they do something incredibly bad to your store. You don't publicly display that kind of arrogance in this current market. Me saying they were arrogant has been proved right. And then some.
StUrrock: Unfortunately the shop business model is now outdated and there are still too many stores.
Unfortunately the shop business model is now outdated and there are still too many stores.
I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, though.
If there were fewer stores, how would the shift more product? I don't know that many potential customers who search for a store, get in their car and drive to another town just to view B&O kit?
moxxey:I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, though. If there were fewer stores, how would the shift more product? I don't know that many potential customers who search for a store, get in their car and drive to another town just to view B&O kit?
moxxey: StUrrock: Unfortunately the shop business model is now outdated and there are still too many stores. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, though. If there were fewer stores, how would the shift more product? I don't know that many potential customers who search for a store, get in their car and drive to another town just to view B&O kit?
The number of visits a customer takes before buying B&O equipment is greater than your average plug and play product. I was talking to a Beoplay designer recently and put it to him that's what differentiates Play from B&O. He agreed with that and that the V1 belonged with the latter as it took some installing from the shop. He explained how the number of dealers has reduced to only top level shops.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Physical stores are great for bringing new people into the brand. Had I not seen a Bang & Olufsen system in my neighborhood hifi store in the 60's, I probably wouldn't be here today.
The problem with that, I'm sure, was it was easy (or common) for the sales person to redirect the customer to another brand because it was a better "value" or something. If they had their own stores they could prevent that from happening. But now you only have customers going in who already know the brand, or the casual curious person if the store is located in a mall or shopping center. I would love to see Bang and Olufsen return to hifi stores, but even those are harder to find now, with large multi-purpose stores taking their place.
Modern hifi equipment has been reduced to speakers for the most part. Everything else is hideaway. It's a lot harder I think to spark something inside of someone by seeing a complete beautiful system that you want to show off to your friends. While I love my BeoLab 17 speakers, if I went to show them off, most people would probably shrug and say it's just a pair of speakers. Is the elegance fading away? Isn't that an important part of Bang & Olufsen? Why is my Essence just a white plastic box that pleads to me to not show it off?
Mark-N: Modern hifi equipment has been reduced to speakers for the most part. Everything else is hideaway. It's a lot harder I think to spark something inside of someone by seeing a complete beautiful system that you want to show off to your friends. While I love my BeoLab 17 speakers, if I went to show them off, most people would probably shrug and say it's just a pair of speakers. Is the elegance fading away? Isn't that an important part of Bang & Olufsen? Why is my Essence just a white plastic box that pleads to me to not show it off?
Duels: I don't disagree with you. However I would say that my BL18s do have that visual impact when friends visit. Very similar to the impact the BS9000 used to have. Real wow-factor.
I don't disagree with you. However I would say that my BL18s do have that visual impact when friends visit. Very similar to the impact the BS9000 used to have. Real wow-factor.
Sorry! It didn't come out the way I intended. B&O speakers are very elegant, even the BL17 in my opinion. But, because of modern digital sources it has been reduced down to just the speakers (the Moment may have some visual appeal I guess). It's just not the way it used to be with an entire beautiful system on display. I certainly love the evolution of the audio world and what I can do so easily, its just that the visual impact of a system is disappearing.
Mark-N: Physical stores are great for bringing new people into the brand. Had I not seen a Bang & Olufsen system in my neighborhood hifi store in the 60's, I probably wouldn't be here today. The problem with that, I'm sure, was it was easy (or common) for the sales person to redirect the customer to another brand because it was a better "value" or something. If they had their own stores they could prevent that from happening. But now you only have customers going in who already know the brand, or the casual curious person if the store is located in a mall or shopping center. I would love to see Bang and Olufsen return to hifi stores, but even those are harder to find now, with large multi-purpose stores taking their place. Modern hifi equipment has been reduced to speakers for the most part. Everything else is hideaway. It's a lot harder I think to spark something inside of someone by seeing a complete beautiful system that you want to show off to your friends. While I love my BeoLab 17 speakers, if I went to show them off, most people would probably shrug and say it's just a pair of speakers. Is the elegance fading away? Isn't that an important part of Bang & Olufsen? Why is my Essence just a white plastic box that pleads to me to not show it off?
In the UK we have stores which sell only B&O and in the rare cases I've seen it alongside other brands it looks a bit lost. We have very few multi-brand car sales sites too, for the same reason. I saw A2 speakers at Costco for a cheaper price for example but in a box with no point of sale or demo opportunity to listen.
Mark-N:Sorry! It didn't come out the way I intended. B&O speakers are very elegant, even the BL17 in my opinion. But, because of modern digital sources it has been reduced down to just the speakers (the Moment may have some visual appeal I guess). It's just not the way it used to be with an entire beautiful system on display. I certainly love the evolution of the audio world and what I can do so easily, its just that the visual impact of a system is disappearing.
jowus:Hi Mark,But, I think, that brought us to B&O, the Beauty and the elegance of the their Systems. I mean, even though the Systems are diminishing like you said, I think B&O should not follow everybody and they should still do outstanding Systems that we can still sells the idea to our friends and neighbors. I remember when I first got my Playmaker and friends will come to my house and I was using my iPad playing music, they were astonished, but the question that came in was why is the Box hiding?. If they had made a nice and attractive Box, it would've been a Big Commercial for them. So I don't think they're following their trend, they're trying to be like everybody and that's not B&O we all know and proud of. I think, we should push them to do Better and Attractive Stuff and we the the Lovers can even commercialize it for the them. Most people got to know the Brand by the enthusiastic Lovers of B&O not by their own commercial because they don't even have one.
StUrrock:Playmaker, one of B&O secrets best kept secrets!
It's also one of their worst products. People complained about the cheap plastic look of it not to mention it's wireless reception was terrible. It was also far more expensive then buying a airport express and a DAC combined.
My B&O dealer told me last week they cancelled it because it wasn't a good product for the company for many reasons.
Unfortunately it's replacement cost even more.
--
BeoLab 18's. Beolab 3's. A8. A9. A2. H7.
Severed_Hand_of_Skywalker: It's also one of their worst products.
It's also one of their worst products.
I don't agree!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
It's been said many a time here, but I think Apple need to buy them.It makes so much sense! both companies care a lot about design aesthetic and appeal to the high end market.
billymartinwicks: It's been said many a time here, but I think Apple need to buy them.It makes so much sense! both companies care a lot about design aesthetic and appeal to the high end market.
Apple is high end CONSUMER grade. Their products are affordable.
B&O is luxury grade. Outside of the play line very few people are willing to pay the extremely high prices on niche products.
Millemissen: I don't agree! MM
Sadly B&O did feel the same about the playmaker as me. That's why they canned it and even the dealers don't suggest them.
I am very satisfied with my playmaker. I had 2 BeoLab 2500 stored away - now - combined with the playmaker they got a second life and "pimped up" the soundstage of a LG-TV in the guest-room. The Playmaker is connected over the headphone-jacket and Line-In. At the same time the Playmaker can be used as a Airplay-device. But I do understand, that the device is discontinued - since the essence mk2 can do the same job.
Beroli
Beroli: I am very satisfied with my playmaker. I had 2 BeoLab 2500 stored away - now - combined with the playmaker they got a second life and "pimped up" the soundstage of a LG-TV in the guest-room. The Playmaker is connected over the headphone-jacket and Line-In. At the same time the Playmaker can be used as a Airplay-device. But I do understand, that the device is discontinued - since the essence mk2 can do the same job. Beroli
Severed_Hand_of_Skywalker: Millemissen: I don't agree! MM Sadly B&O did feel the same about the playmaker as me. That's why they canned it and even the dealers don't suggest them.
I don't know, what 'the dealers' have told you, but it is not the thruth.
The Playmaker was discontinued for the same reason, that the A9 1th generation was - technology moves on!
The A9 was a nice speaker and design concept, that could easily be merged into the 2nd generation version (which we have now as an NL device).
There was no need for a 2nd generation Playmaker (or not enough), since the BS Essence was already coming - and now in the 2nd generation as a NL device.
Had the company been bigger, they could have kept the Playmaker in the portfolio, but - as we know - B&O has to concentrate on a relatively small amount of products. They could have merged the A8 into a NL device as well, but did not - it was also discontinued. That does not mean that the A8 was bad - they just wanted to make something new/different.
Conlusion: some like the Playmaker, others don't.
If you don't and/or did not get it working in your wifi setup, just tell us that - don't tell us, that it is the worst product, that B&O ever made.
Millemissen:If you don't and/or did not get it working in your wifi setup, just tell us that - don't tell us, that it is the worst product, that B&O ever made.
The last time I checked I'm sure he was allowed an opinion of his own!
Ban boring signatures!
And to turn it into a positive, if the Playmaker is B&O's worst product ever made then that must be saying something good about the company and how great their products have been!
I've only used the Playmaker for a short while, and it was a "New / Demo" product from eBay, so I don't know how "new" it was, but the only problem I had with it was that it would stop working after about a week, sometimes in the middle of a song. I only had to power cycle it with the switch to get it to work again. It wasn't a bad product in my opinion, but I do like the Essence better!
Paul W:As an example, I ordered an Apple TV for a friend for Christmas at Midnight last Thursday evening from Apple.com. It was delivered to my house 9.5 hours later all beautifully gift wrapped. How about that for service! In contrast it took B&O THREE days to reply to a simple Email request and then another THREE DAYS to reply to my message. To me, it gave a feeling that they were not bothered about a sale. For a premium priced brand, there's a lot of work to be done that Tue must sort out!
I have to imagine there is a fulfillment house distantly related to Apple providing this excellent service, but that is impressive nonetheless.
Having to travel a lot for work has made me desire some more compact headphones. As you can guess the new BeoPlay H3 ANCs really appealed to me. While considering the purchase I decided I would call a dealer and buy directly from them instead of shopping via Amazon / BeoPlay.com etc. The result was quite like your Apple TV purchase - impeccable - I received my H3 ANC's in less than a day! And to top it all off I have grown my B&O network now having worked with this excellent dealer.
I ordered my headphones from the Cincinnati Ohio dealer and Per swiftly and professionally placed the order and charged me nothing for the shipping to my home just outside Detroit.
There are still professional people who care inside B&O.
Beo4 'til I die!
Puncher: Millemissen:If you don't and/or did not get it working in your wifi setup, just tell us that - don't tell us, that it is the worst product, that B&O ever made. The last time I checked I'm sure he was allowed an opinion of his own!
Exactly what I meant and what I wrote:
'If you don't.... just tell us that'.
But thanks for checking anyway ;-)
Paul W: NO WAY GUYS, the B&O logo is iconic and is VITAL to the play brand. IT'S NOT TO BE SEEN as a cheap version of a BANG & OLUFSEN. NO WAY, it has to be FANTASTIC in order for the customer to then consider staying loyal to the company rather than moving on because of poor experience with the product. THIS is the range that should excel in every way - sound, design, build and most importantly - customer service. As an example, I ordered an Apple TV for a friend for Christmas at Midnight last Thursday evening from Apple.com. It was delivered to my house 9.5 hours later all beautifully gift wrapped. How about that for service! In contrast it took B&O THREE days to reply to a simple Email request and then another THREE DAYS to reply to my message. To me, it gave a feeling that they were not bothered about a sale. For a premium priced brand, there's a lot of work to be done that Tue must sort out!
One case involves revenue in return for an action that is a standard process and the other earns nothing for a service which requires personal attention to do something that could probably be researched on-line? An "e-mail request" sounds like it's is not the same as an online purchase. I'm sure a similar request from Apple would take longer than a purchase.
i have found the service received ,as a B&O customer ,takes a reasonable amount of time.
Millemissen: Puncher: Millemissen:If you don't and/or did not get it working in your wifi setup, just tell us that - don't tell us, that it is the worst product, that B&O ever made. The last time I checked I'm sure he was allowed an opinion of his own! Exactly what I meant and what I wrote: 'If you don't.... just tell us that'. But thanks for checking anyway ;-) MM
If you insist on being pedantic with semantics then, no, it is not what you wrote!
You said, "don't tell us, that it is the worst product, that B&O ever made". Whereas I said he was allowed to say that if that was what he felt!
In my opinion is a good disclaimer if one is about to make a sweeping statement!
Puncher: [If you insist on being pedantic with semantics then, no, it is not what you wrote! You said, "don't tell us, that it is the worst product, that B&O ever made". Whereas I said he was allowed to say that if that was what he felt!
[If you insist on being pedantic with semantics then, no, it is not what you wrote!
You interfered - punching as always.
Anyway....
he did not just say what he felt - he wrote it IS (!) the worst product.
Maybe you don't see a difference, but I do.
Simonbeo: In my opinion is a good disclaimer if one is about to make a sweeping statement!
Thanks!
Millemissen: Puncher: [If you insist on being pedantic with semantics then, no, it is not what you wrote! You said, "don't tell us, that it is the worst product, that B&O ever made". Whereas I said he was allowed to say that if that was what he felt! You interfered - punching as always. Anyway.... he did not just say what he felt - he wrote it IS (!) the worst product. Maybe you don't see a difference, but I do. MM
So posting something that agrees with someone that you don't is called "interfering"!
"he wrote it IS (!) the worst product." Yes he did, in his opinion. - the opinion I still maintain he is entitled to, without interference from you!