ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello,
I have recently upgraded my MMC4 to an MMC2 but the sound is not special or even better, disappointed of the MMC2. it looks like my MMC4 sounds fuller and better?
Both cartridges are recent re-tipped by Axel Schurholz.
The MMC4 with a elliptical needle. and the MMC2 with the original version.
(i see that both are in very good condition.)
I test new and old records but the sound of the MMC2 is noet special. It sounds lower so i must set more volume on it. The MMC4 sounds fuller and the volume is better and higher.
How is this possible?
My setup:
I pay 199 for the MMC4 and 599 for the MMC2. (euro)
Have you got the tracking force set correctly?
Axels re-tips do seem to like a bit of extra tracking force particularly until the new suspension breaks in.
The MMC2 is to my ears a much better tracker than the MMC4, particualy with siblilances and high frequencies.
Lee
Lee: Have you got the tracking force set correctly? Axels re-tips do seem to like a bit of extra tracking force particularly until the new suspension breaks in. The MMC2 is to my ears a much better tracker than the MMC4, particualy with siblilances and high frequencies. Lee
I second that, I have both types from Axel, on my BG 5000 pizzabox I have the MMC2 set to 1.3 grams and the MMC4 set to 1.5 grams, they both plays at the same volume level, and the MMC2 is clearly better
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Thanks for reply.
I know it sounds strange what i say but its true. i don't know why :(
The tracking-force was 1.3
I take some close-up pictures maybe you see strange things?
and this is a close-up of my MMC4
That looks fine to me but its hard to tell just by looking at photos.
In what way would you describe the sound of the MMC2? Is it just more quiet?
Is there anyway you can make a recording and post or link to online?
Perhaps a bit like the MMC20CL ?
It sounds much less harsh or bright and might sound a bit dull in the wrong setup.
Just a guess.
Methinks he same goes for the older SP10 (my favourite) compared to the SP12.
Jacques
I dont think you have an original MMC2 the diamond dont look right, I had an original MMC 4 that one looked just like the ones repaired by Axel
Here a pic of my MMC2 from Axel
I have a setup where I have a Beogram 4000 with an MMC20CL and a Beogram 8002 with an MMC2 connected to a preamplifier that can switch between the two turntables. I always have to increase the volume on the preamp when I use the MMC2 turntable but the sound is really good. In your case is the thing you are disappointed in the volume or the overall sound? When you turn the volume up to your favorite listening level is the sound quality of the MMC2 cartridge bad or just different? This type of thing is impossible to resolve through text but like Lee said, if you can record some piece of music with both cartridges we might be able to hear what you are describing. I would expect though, as you expected, that the MMC2 should sound noticeably better (after investing the extra money in it).
I have recording both elements with the same recording level and the same quality.
https://www.zenid.net/mmc/sounds/
Please let me know what you think about this.
Than Axel does NOT the right things!
zenilygy: I have recording both elements with the same recording level and the same quality. https://www.zenid.net/mmc/sounds/ Please let me know what you think about this.
Both cartridges sound good. The MMC4 recording does sound like it has a little more punch to it. I can see why you like the MMC4 better.Looking at the specs of each cartridge -
Bang & Olufsen MMC4 Phono Cartridge Specifications - Type: Moving micro cross - Output voltage: 2.12mV - Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz +/- 2.5 dB - Load impedance: 47k ohms - Channel separation: >22dB - Stylus Type: Elliptical - Cantilever: Tapered aluminum tube - Compliance: 20mm/N - Recommended tracking force: 1.2 g - Weight: 1.6 g
Bang & Olufsen MMC 2 Phono Cartridge Specifications - Type: Moving micro cross - Output voltage: 2.12mV - Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz +/- 1.5 dB - Load impedance: 47k ohms - Channel separation: >25dB - Stylus Type: Contact line nude diamond - Cantilever: Sapphire tube - Compliance: 30mm/N - Recommended tracking force: 1 g - Weight: 1.6 g - Accessories included: Brush, mounting screws and nuts, half-inch mount adaptor, performance measurement
They should both sound good. The MMC2 should be more accurate but how do you measure that with your ears alone. In the end you should go by your personal sound preference. The question here becomes if the difference in your appreciation of the sound is just your preference or whether the difference is due to having an under performing MMC2 cartridge. The only way to know if the cartridge repair quality is accurate is to be able to test the specs per what B&O published for the cartridge. Not many of us are set up to do that so we go by our ears. In that case you would need to try out more MMC2 and MMC4 cartridges to see if the results are the same. However, that usually isn't an option for most people either.I would bring up your concerns with Axel and ask him if he has measurements between your two cartridges he restored for you. He may just ask you to return the MMC2 to him again for checking. That would probably be the best option as he will have the proper equipment to evaluate the cartridge performance.
-sonavor
Thank you very mutch Sonavor
Hello Folks. I hate to be the thorn in the flesh here, but I find that my MMC4s sound better than my MMC2. The sound difference is so minute that it is unrecognizable. I play classical opera, oratorio and lieder recordings all the time as a I am a voice teacher. The sounds on the higher frequencies in the human voice and orchestral works sound little different. I have found that the MMC4 has a fuller and richer sound. The MMC2 has less of a weight on the record but as I have kept my MMC4 at 1.2 on the arm scale I find that I am having no difficulty. Many of the records I play constantly for my pupils to listen to during their lesson periods, there has been no damage done. Personally, I prefer the MMC4. For what it is worth!!
Professor David A Flynn JP LM
Axel have free change my MMC2 needle to a withnew suspension and Shibata diamand. Great service from Axel. Now it sounds the same as my MMC4 but my MMC4 still sounds better and fuller. So i keep my MMC4s
For what it's worth, some cartridges take some time to 'bed in', some say about 50 hours.
Sonavor,
Strange that the volume should be different when the output is the same from both carts. Must be the different system?
Regards
Mike
They certainly do need time to bed in... My shibata on boron mmc20cl from Axel is just bedding in after about 50hrs... I dare say its got another 50 to go before the suspension is sufficiently broken in. It's also worth noting that in my experience the re-tips need a little more tracking force which will drop after break in. I have found this cartridge much better than any mmc4 I have ever heard.