ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi All,
I’ve not been keeping fully up-to-date with B&O technology and it’s OS for a number of years. I have now moved on from a ML-based BV7-55 to a new Avant 55. The BeoMaster 5 is connected to the Avant via the NL/ML Converter and operates as a 5.1 Surround system with BL5’s to the front and BL3’s at the rear.
All connections appear to work satisfactorily and everything plays as it should. The adaptive sound technology in the Avant is significantly better than that in the BV7-55 and once setup to your liking is like a boost in performance higher again.
However, the BM5 which is connected to the BL5’s via the coax SPDIF seems not to be functioning.
Under the BV7-55 (and other 7 series TV’s), there was always a significant improvement in sound (with the BeoMaster 5 connected via ML to the BV7) output when the BM5 SPDIF was connected to the BL5’s.
With the BV Avant, there is no sound difference and it is also possible to tint the tone controls – something which would not be possible with the BV7-55. I am assuming the NL/ML converter is just an expensive PUC interface as ML is analogue or does the internal DAC (or ADC) do something. Even if it did, the BL5’s would be receiving the signal via Powerlink anyway? I checked the coax cable and routed a substitute. No apparent fault and sonic difference.
Anyone got any ideas as to how it is all working, why SPDIF appears not to be and if the SPDIF can be re-activated?
Appreciate anyone’s in-depth knowledge on the subject.
10
Hi,
I have a similar setup as you did before (BV 7-55, BL5 front, BL3 rear and BS5 with ML and Coax directly to BL5). With this setup you really get the best out of your Beolab 5 because you have the direct digital connection between the BS5 and BL5. I think that there is a big improvement in soundquality when feeding the BL5 digital instead of analog (powerlink).
The digital input on BL5 only works when the speakers get the "CD-source-command".
With the Beovison 7-55 (and all Beosystem 3-based televisions) the CD-command will be send thru Powerlink-connections to Beolab 5 when you press "CD" on your remote.
With the new Beosystem 4-based televisions (Avant, BV 11 and V1) this function is NOT available. This means that you can never use your Beolab 5 fully with digital connections. That is WHY I not have exchanged my Beovision 7-55 to an Avant 75. This is very sad but I have checked this with B&O and even with my B&O-retail-shop. The message is the same: Beosystem 4-based televisons don´t send the "CD-command" in the powerlink when you press "CD" on your remote to active a source called "CD" (in this case Beosound 5/Beomaster 5). To clearify: The Beosystem 4-based tv:s dont send data at all thru powerlink to speakers. That´s why digital connections with Beolab 5 dont work with the new TV-plattform.
It is only the CD-command that "opens up" the digital input in Beolab 5 (when you have the BL5 in Option 0). If the BL5 dont receive the "CD"-command (via data thru powerlink) the only input that works is the powerlink-connections.
Sorry, this is the sad truth.
Best RegardsMartin
Sweden
NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
There is one other thing to comment about your questions:
When you have the Avant and the Beolink Converter NL/ML and the Beosound 5 you have techically a more "converted" sound quality than with the "old" beovision 7-55 setup.
Regarding D/A convertion - the following happens:
1. Beosound 5 connected with ML to Beovision 7-55 and Beolab 5 (no SPDIF-cable at all): D/A conversion happens in the Beomaster 5 to analog sound. This analog sound goes to the Beovision 7-55 and then thru powerlink to Beolab 5.
2. Besound 5 Connected with SPDIF-cable directly to Beolab 5 and Beovision 7-55 also connected with ML to Besound 5: D/A conversion happens in the Beolab 5 = The best solution.
3. Besound 5 connected with ML to Beolink Converter (NL/ML) and this coverter is connected to Avant 55 (Network-cable): The first D/A conversion happens in the Beosound 5 BUT a new conversion A/D hanppens in the Beolink Converter. Then another convertion D/A happens in the Avant 55 and this analog sound finally arrive to the Beolab 5 = Here you have 3 conversions of the sound before it reaches the Beolab 5 = This is the worst case of the three cases mentioned here.
I hope this clear things out.
Mr 10Percent: Under the BV7-55 (and other 7 series TV’s), there was always a significant improvement in sound (with the BeoMaster 5 connected via ML to the BV7) output when the BM5 SPDIF was connected to the BL5’s. With the BV Avant, there is no sound difference and it is also possible to tint the tone controls – something which would not be possible with the BV7-55. 10
With the BV Avant, there is no sound difference and it is also possible to tint the tone controls – something which would not be possible with the BV7-55.
What do you mean by 'With the BV Avant, there is no sound difference'?
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
It is such at shame the powerlink data is left out. For me personally since upgrading to bs4 i stopped listening to music on My BL5s. I asked my dealer how we could make it work. Never received an answer. I think Martins answer makes it quite clear there is no way forward. That is very sad.
Millemissen: Mr 10Percent: Under the BV7-55 (and other 7 series TV’s), there was always a significant improvement in sound (with the BeoMaster 5 connected via ML to the BV7) output when the BM5 SPDIF was connected to the BL5’s. With the BV Avant, there is no sound difference and it is also possible to tint the tone controls – something which would not be possible with the BV7-55. 10 What do you mean by 'With the BV Avant, there is no sound difference'? MM
There is no sound difference between using the SPDIF or the power-link input when using the BV Avant. With the BV7-55 there was and there was no base/treble control.
Martin: Hi, I have a similar setup as you did before (BV 7-55, BL5 front, BL3 rear and BS5 with ML and Coax directly to BL5). With this setup you really get the best out of your Beolab 5 because you have the direct digital connection between the BS5 and BL5. I think that there is a big improvement in soundquality when feeding the BL5 digital instead of analog (powerlink). The digital input on BL5 only works when the speakers get the "CD-source-command". With the Beovison 7-55 (and all Beosystem 3-based televisions) the CD-command will be send thru Powerlink-connections to Beolab 5 when you press "CD" on your remote. With the new Beosystem 4-based televisions (Avant, BV 11 and V1) this function is NOT available. This means that you can never use your Beolab 5 fully with digital connections. That is WHY I not have exchanged my Beovision 7-55 to an Avant 75. This is very sad but I have checked this with B&O and even with my B&O-retail-shop. The message is the same: Beosystem 4-based televisons don´t send the "CD-command" in the powerlink when you press "CD" on your remote to active a source called "CD" (in this case Beosound 5/Beomaster 5). To clearify: The Beosystem 4-based tv:s dont send data at all thru powerlink to speakers. That´s why digital connections with Beolab 5 dont work with the new TV-plattform. It is only the CD-command that "opens up" the digital input in Beolab 5 (when you have the BL5 in Option 0). If the BL5 dont receive the "CD"-command (via data thru powerlink) the only input that works is the powerlink-connections. Sorry, this is the sad truth. Best RegardsMartin Sweden
Martin,
Thank you for that explanation. Your comments suggest there is nothing wrong with my setup or configuration, only that over-processing occurs.
I would have thought that the BL5's would have been "open" to the highest order signal available and take that in preference to anything else. Thus, in a well-thought-out B&O world, SPDIF signal trumps Power-link trumps line-in etc.....
The sound of the Avant is superior to the BV7-55 but as you say, the BL5's play their best with the SPDIF connection.
I wonder how the BL90's handle those signals?
Thank you
Mr 10Percent: I wonder how the BL90's handle those signals?
Interesting question!
In most demos the BL90 was connected via PowerLink to an Avant. ( i.e the master speaker is - and the slave is connected to the master via DigitalPowerLink)
It does not seem that the guys in Struer have a problem with that.
However, someone wrote (in another thread) that the BL90's - in his case - were demoed from different sources/with different connections.
Geoff Martin should be the one to tell us what/why.....and whether there is a difference or not (and in case yes, which difference).
P.S. The BL90's can be handled through e.g. the Avant/PL as well as directly through the control app (it has it's own preamp-function) using several different connections.
Millemissen: Interesting question! In most demos the BL90 was connected via PowerLink to an Avant. ( i.e the master speaker is - and the slave is connected to the master via DigitalPowerLink) It does not seem that the guys in Struer have a problem with that. However, someone wrote (in another thread) that the BL90's - in his case - were demoed from different sources/with different connections. Geoff Martin should be the one to tell us what/why.....and whether there is a difference or not (and in case yes, which difference). P.S. The BL90's can be handled through e.g. the Avant/PL as well as directly through the control app (it has it's own preamp-function) using several different connections. MM
Found this in the BL90 White paper:-
“Selection Priority
If the BeoLab 90 is set to automatically detect an input signal, then it maybe necessary to customise the prioritisation of the sources. For example, if you have a CD player connected to the S/P-DIF input and a turntable connected to the XLR input, and both sources are playing, this parameter allows you to determine which source should “win” and be played by the BeoLab 90.
This prioritisation can be personalised by changing the vertical order of the inputs on BeoLab 90 application in the Input Select menu “
So no-doubt the BL90 can prioritise.
@Mr 10Percent
So how do you feel about the missing opportunity of connecting the BL5's via coax after the change to the Avant as hub?
Do you miss anything, does it matter much to you, when listening to music, or?
Millemissen: @Mr 10Percent So how do you feel about the missing opportunity of connecting the BL5's via coax after the change to the Avant as hub? Do you miss anything, does it matter much to you, when listening to music, or? MM
MM,
It is impossible to compare the BV Avant 55 and BV7-55 when they are not connected at the same time to the same equipment in the same room. I'm relying totally on memory and the fact that I have a "new" TV Toy will impair my perception on what is very subjective analysis anyway.
That said, In a way, I believe the soundboard on the Avant is superior - by a large measure over the BV7-55 and that the musical difference between the Avant's power-link sound processing and BL5's is small compared with the BV7-55 Power-link sound processing and BL5's (which definitely benefited greatly with the exploitation of the SPDIF signal) Thus, I'm inclined to think the inability of the BV Avant /NL Converter to signal the correct CD code to the BL5's and open the pathway for the SPDIF signal is not a big issue.
There are literally thousands of sound settings on the BV Avant and once I had tuned the Avant to master all music to 2-channel (rather than Adaptive), I was very happy with the sound. The music does perceive as "lighter", "punchy", "detailed", "imaged" and all the other loose terms you can throw at it.
I will also say that the Avant's sound bar is also very good - particularly for speech; something I was never too impressed with on the BL7.6 (The BL7.6 I think should be seen as a good sound bar in a standalone setup but not as good as the Avant's sound bar in an 5.1/7.1 remote speaker setup)
Hope that helps?
Thanks!
I understand that you enjoy your BL5's very much this way - that is the most important thing.
Hi, the Beovision 10 dont send data-informatión to the Beolab 5. It is just Beosystem 3-based television that does that. You must buy Beovision 9, Beovision 7-40 (mark 3-6), or Beovision 7-55 (mark 1-2) or Beovision 12 (with BS3) to get what you want. I know this for sure.
Best regardsMartin
Thanks Martin, these 2 posts from you have clarified one big question I have had regarding a possible TV upgrade: If we upgrade from our BV5 to a new Eclipse or Avant 75, will we then continue to get ultimate stereo sound quality from out BL5 speakers when we play CDs form our BS9000?
Our current setup is: BV5, BS9k, BL5 in our living room - connected via ML, PL and spdif coax. (Plus a DAC connected to BV5 giving spotify analogue signals through to the BL5). The sound quality is significant better when playing CD on the BS9k than playing the same music via Spotify / DAC, even if the Spotify setup is with the "Extreme" quality option. Obvious because the music is digital all the way from BS9k to the BL5s.
Since the newer BVs (after BS4) don't send the CD-message via PL, I think that we should rather look for a preowned BV with BS3 (BV9, BV12) than go with the Eclipse or an Avant. A bit disappointment that was....
BV Eclipse 65, BV5, BS Core, BL5, BL8000, BS9000, Beolit 12, A1, A2, P2, H8, H9i, H7, E8
Unfortunately it seems in deed that newer (NL) Beo-products don`t send source information via Powerlink. I have an ML/NL converter set up as an A.SLAVE with BL5000s connected to the Powerlink sockets. The displays always show "RADIO", no matter which source I select. Even video sources from my BV7-40 are displayed as RADIO.... But the BL5000s display volume data correctly. As the ML/NL converter even doesn`t work properly with my BC9500 connected to LINE IN with "line in sense" activated, I think, I will take the converter back to my dealer. A second live Beolink active sw1.6 is already ordered, and I will add a Powerlink switch from Oneremote (with datalink connected).
Stefan
We're in a search for a preowned BV that can be an upgrade for our BV5, and still connect to and control the BS9k so that we get the most out of our BL5s (spdif/coax with the CD-command via PL). We planned to buy the Eclipse, but due to the lack of backward compability, such a move would make this integration impossible.
Do anyone know if the BV 10-46 sends the CD-message to the BL5s when playing CD from a BS9k (or music from BS5) similar to the BV 7-55, BV 12, BV 9 which have the BS3? I.e. if BV 10-46 behaves similar wrt BL5 and BS9k/BS5 as the Beosystem 3 TVs?
Is this issue solved yet? I am planning a new tv, and looking at options, like the Almando switch, a new dolbly atmos receiver, but I need a core and beolabs 5. All options are really difficult with setbacks, but from what I read is that even connected to an Eclips it is impossible to use spdif on a core almando only has 5.1 and the 3rd party preamp... MM is right but reading this I might be tempted and buy a system 3.
(Basicly you cannot start the labs 5 without a cd command. And after the system 3 it is not possible to send this command over powerlink in order to give priority)