New BeoVision

They arrive mid August and at a great price, just days after Sky Q is released with its 4K upgrade. Not that I know what Sky Q is, but it sounds awesome

Just to make it clear:

I am talking about a tv/a BV with integrated speakers, that can be sold and used as is.

I am not talking about an 'integrated and/or modular setup'..

MM

 

Millemissen:

 

 

BV7/BL7 owners should enjoy their setup as long as possible (it is after all an extraordinary combo).

MM

 

Thanks for encouraging me to save money and not replace my BV7!  I keep looking at the advanced sound guide of the new BVs and thinking I want a new BV.

 

The automatic moderating is really getting frustrating. I just quoted MM and thanked him for the comment. Send to moderation. 

Millemissen:

There is absolutely no need to produce and to try to sell BV's with a seperate display/speakers concept, if you can't survive as a company from it.

From the customer's point of view, I do disagree.

Loudspeaker technology is mature technology. Screen technology evolves constantly these days. Two cases in point: 4K panels and OLED, and many manufacturers offering local dimming panels again.

A stylish BV+BL combo on a stand (table top or floor stand) or a wall bracket would allow the user to update the screen, and keep the loudspeaker & video/audio engine, which can be often updated via software updates.

Now switching from Avant to Avant NG or BV11 to 4K BV14 requires the purchase of the entire set. I'm perfectly happy with the sound of my BV11, but would like a 4K screen, and eventually an 4K OLED screen, in this design that pleases me.

If B&O designed a striking modular BV/AV/BL setup, I could buy a new TV(BV) part of the same design and get improved screen tech.

I see no need to update the audio components every 2 years, but if it was an option, I would update the screen probably every 2 years.

Mind you, I do want a well-designed complete BV setup with placement options – what BV7 was. And it was modular.

My suggestion to B&O would be to take the modular thinking of BV7 further, with a new design – not the opposite direction.

As it is now, it almost hurts to think how much I'll spend on BV14 just because of a better, current tech screen. Like I said, I have no complaints about the audio part of my BV.

In short, a modular solution I would upgrade more often. As it is with BVs today, my update cycle is about once in 5 years. In that time, the screen has become pretty much obsolete (in terms of resale value of a BV11), but the audio part is still going strong.

From business perspective, perhaps it makes sense for B&O to sell a new BV to a customer such as myself every 5-6 years – in the ballpark of 8.000 - 9.000 euros per BV.

Then again, in another scenario, B&O could offer an initial complete modular solution at that same price (9.000), and then, as screens improve, convince me to update the screen part every 2 years, say, at 4.000 euros each. They would get the 9.000 + 2(or 3) x 4.000 from me, and I would not be looking at other brands because of newer screen tech or because of the price.

They could, during those years, also come up with different BL options for the TV-setup, and get even more money from me for the same TV+Speaker setup. And I could "recycle" the old TV part & speaker/audio part to another room.

Now the cycle is slow. And I need to update the whole thing at once.

I'd forgo Avant's moving speaker magic for such a modular option, which would allow more options to me as a customer.

Ideally, as I love the design of BV11, I'd like the possibility to remove the front glass, change the panel, and then update the software in the BV to match the new panel (calibration etc.)

But that's just me, and my idea of a BV that lasts the test of time and improving tech much longer.

On another aspect of the new BV topic:

Surely it must be only a rumour of B&O ending BV production completely, and rely on LG solely for the production?

What happens to all proprietary B&O video processing technology, if they do outsource their TVs? What happens to the viewing panel? How about the video engine?

And will LG produce all models: Avant NG, BV14, BV Horizon, and the OLED BV coming next year? Some comments suggesting that the "BV department" at B&O will be terminated is quite disturbing. It implies that a lot of even yet unannounced BVs (Horizon, BV14, Avant NG) would be discontinued – these are BV's B&O produce at their own factory.

It makes no sense. Surely B&O will produce other than the new OLED-BV collaboration with LG, from 2017 onwards?

Or what exactly is happening with BVs and with LG and B&O?

KMA:

Or what exactly is happening with BVs and with LG and B&O?

Former B&O CEO Tue Mantoni told danish media, that the LG partnership was long term, at least for 5 years, starting with the OLED TV i 2017.

Don't expect LG to take over the production of the tv-products already on the market or in shortterm pipeline.

  /Lars

 

Sorry for the typos/edits.

I spent perhaps too much time thinking of BeoVisions – in a hurry!

I'll say it before and I'll say it again: B&O have a total winner on their hands if they promote the hell out of their video engine. The Beosystem 4 is a true value for all it does. But it doesn't get any attention. I love my BeoVision 11, but... if I had to do it over again, I might opt for a Beosystem 4, and use my pick of a screen - no it wouldn't look good, but I'd be saving a lot of $$$ and still getting a lot of bang for the buck.

Theoretically, I could perhaps upgrade the screen every couple of years as that technology advances, and keep the same brains. I hope that B&O continue to produce their video engines as separate boxes, or make THEM modular, so that their insides could be updated to support new tech. 

Lars Ladingkaer:

Former B&O CEO Tue Mantoni told danish media, that the LG partnership was long term, at least for 5 years, starting with the OLED TV i 2017. Don't expect LG to take over the production of the tv-products already on the market or in shortterm pipeline.

/Lars

Thanks for this info.

Perhaps all BVs will be OLED, and of new design, during that period. Or perhaps LG will take over the (Czech) factory that now produces BeoVisions. We'll see.

I hope they can get the collaboration to work: great designs, great screens and great audio by Geoff. And most of all, the B&O quality.

Sal:

 

 

 

Theoretically, I could perhaps upgrade the screen every couple of years as that technology advances, and keep the same brains. I hope that B&O continue to produce their video engines as separate boxes, or make THEM modular, so that their insides could be updated to support new tech.

 

 

I agree completely. The new LG OLED (Signature model if I remember correctly) is amazing. I have considered the possibility of using it with the BS4. It would allow the potential for future upgrades to be somewhat less expensive as could upgrade only the screen, or if a new video engine were released that could be upgraded without the need for a new screen at the same time.

deleted

duplicative

Another post sent to moderation. Quoting and agreeing with Sal. Could someone explain what is sending the posts to moderation so I can avoid using whatever words or phrases are causing it? 

Related to BS4: does is support 4K UHD passthrough and does it support WISA? (I assume the answer is NO for the WISA part).

I have been told the new bvs have no HDR

KMA:

A stylish BV+BL combo on a stand (table top or floor stand) or a wall bracket would allow the user to update the screen, and keep the loudspeaker & video/audio engine, which can be often updated via software updates.

 

Ideally, as I love the design of BV11, I'd like the possibility to remove the front glass, change the panel, and then update the software in the BV to match the new panel (calibration etc.)

I understand - this must be the dream of every (new tech orientated) comsumer.

But I am not so sure, that it - from a technological point of view - is that easy.

Videoengine and display technology are tightly woven together

And how about the costs for the change of the display and the costs for the changes in the software of the videoengine, calibration of the display etc.

Might even happen, that in a couple of generations the power of this engine won't be sufficient for the then 'new display technology'.

That would require changes in the hardware of the engine too....hmmmm!

A tv is an industrial product.

If you (means the manufactorer = B&O) want to or rather have to sell enough of these tv to stay in business, you must work cost effective.

A modular concept (as you wish for) undoubtedly would be a lot more expensive.

It would be possible, yes - but probably much less of us would be able to enjoy the B&O quality, then.

And please do think of all the B&O costumers, who don't care for the 'latest display tech' - no money earned on them :-(

I am afraid this dream might stay a dream.

MM

Razlaw:

Millemissen:

BV7/BL7 owners should enjoy their setup as long as possible (it is after all an extraordinary combo).

MM

Thanks for encouraging me to save money and not replace my BV7!  I keep looking at the advanced sound guide of the new BVs and thinking I want a new BV.

Why shouldn't I - as long as you are happy with your setup.

But B&O needs new costumers - not only the old ones, who will (sooner or) later upgrade their setup.

-----The Essence or the A6 is a perfect start in the world of NL ;-)) -----

MM

Razlaw:

Millemissen:

BV7/BL7 owners should enjoy their setup as long as possible (it is after all an extraordinary combo).

MM

Thanks for encouraging me to save money and not replace my BV7!  I keep looking at the advanced sound guide of the new BVs and thinking I want a new BV.

Why shouldn't I - as long as you are happy with your setup.

But B&O needs new costumers - not only the old ones, who will (sooner or) later upgrade their setup.

-----The Essence or the A6 is a perfect start in the world of NL ;-)) -----

MM

Razlaw:

Millemissen:

BV7/BL7 owners should enjoy their setup as long as possible (it is after all an extraordinary combo).

MM

Thanks for encouraging me to save money and not replace my BV7!  I keep looking at the advanced sound guide of the new BVs and thinking I want a new BV.

Why shouldn't I - as long as you are happy with your setup.

But B&O needs new costumers - not only the old ones, who will (sooner or) later upgrade their setup.

-----The Essence or the A6 is a perfect start in the world of NL ;-)) -----

MM

vlohjr1:

I have been told the new bvs have no HDR

 

Maybe, but this subject seem to cover quite some models now.

 

Bang & Olufsen will, or are expected to, launch:

 

• BeoVision Horizon
• BeoVision 14
• BeoVision Avant NG (New Generation)
• B&O OLED

 

 

BeoVision Horizon

New entry model, new design. Maybe Android TV, 4K, but could be without HDR. 

 

BeoVision 14

An upgrade to BeoVision 11, but with 4K and Android TV. Identical design. I would expect HDR.

 

BeoVision Avant NG

New Generation, Android TV, more 4K services. I would expect HDR.

 

Bang & Olufsen OLED

The first OLED TV next year. First TV in the new alliance with LG. I would expect the "full monty" in features inclusive HDR.

 

  /Lars

 

 

Horizon will be HDR, but without some of the advanced software that's going into the 14. Same panel.

Razlaw:

Another post sent to moderation. Quoting and agreeing with Sal. Could someone explain what is sending the posts to moderation so I can avoid using whatever words or phrases are causing it? 

I was struck by 'moderation' too - sorry for posting three times the same ;-(

MM

Chris Townsend:

Horizon will be HDR, but without some of the advanced software that's going into the 14. Same panel.

To me it sounds like the Horizon will be the most interesting part.

Sure the upgrades of the 11 to14 and the Avant to the Avant NG will be important, but they aren't new BV's.

Can't wait to see, what they will bring with the Horizon and how the prizing will be :-)

MM

Millemissen:

KMA:

Ideally, as I love the design of BV11, I'd like the possibility to remove the front glass, change the panel, and then update the software in the BV to match the new panel (calibration etc.)

snip...

But I am not so sure, that it - from a technological point of view - is that easy.

Videoengine and display technology are tightly woven together

MM

Technically that is actually the way it was done, in BV4 -7. The image processing is simply bundled with the panel,

-and the interface is as simple as  HDMI.

As you point out i would make no sense doing the split at the LVDS interface, and besides the cost of the image processor is negligible compared to the cost of the panel and backlight!

The BV12 was done the same way, and thanks to the modular design, the Beosystem 3 was easily replaced with the Beosystem 4, during its production run.

The LG generation of Beovisions will undoubtedly, return to a similar approach, simply out of necessity!    

Interesting titbit (perhaps it has been mentioned before):

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1452014161

The new LG G6 and E6 OLED televisions have been designed by Torsten Valeur of David Lewis Designers:

"The Signature products have been designed by Torsten Valeur, and the idea is to create simple and minimalistic products that are simple and intuitive to use."

"LG will launch four new 2016 OLED TVs under the Signature brand; the so-called G6 and E6 series."

There is a great emphasis on sound with these TVs, with the integrated soundbars:

"Sound has been developed in collaboration with Harman Kardon. The soundbars, equipped with extra woofers underneath the TVs should be able to deliver a better sound experience than regular integrated speakers."

Perhaps this is a prelude to the version where B&O makes the audio instead of Harman Kardon? The review of the E6 is on FlatPanelsHD.

KMA:

Perhaps this is a prelude to the version where B&O makes the audio instead of Harman Kardon? 

That would be an LG tv with B&O provided sound.....

....and the end of BeoVisions - with NL-integration etc etc etc.

Is that what you expect - probably not what you would wish for.

MM

@KMA

It is actually even more interesting (convoluted ?)...

The speaker system of the Avant was based on technology from the  B&O Automotive division..

The B&O automotive division was sold off to Harman, now supplying the speaker technology for LG

LG is now the new Beovision platform.

Go figure...

Millemissen:

KMA:

Perhaps this is a prelude to the version where B&O makes the audio instead of Harman Kardon? 

That would be an LG tv with B&O provided sound.....

....and the end of BeoVisions - with NL-integration etc etc etc.

Is that what you expect - probably not what you would wish for.

 

B&O said to be in control of design, sound and home automation.

They can put Netlink-tech and Wisa wireless-tech in the soundbar, and add their own remote control, if its the "soundbar" that is "master control" in the system, with the TV being merely a controled "smart monitor" with tuner, conections and smart-tv features.

  /Lars

 

 

@ Lars L

Yeap!

It would simply be a respin of the Beovison 4 / Panasonic / Beosystem solution.

@Lars

My post was related to the sentence from KMA, that I qouted!

----

As I have written before - I would rather wait for an official confirmation from B&O about the tv solutions from the B&O/LG cooperation, than listening to speculations and rumours.

MM

Millemissen:

Is that what you expect - probably not what you would wish for.

No, I do not expect this. I expect more of what was in the responses: a B&O design, with B&O Audio/Video Engine and speakers.

It would be nuts not to incorporate all the stellar work Geoff & team have done for the "audio brain" of BVs, and all the connectivity & NL.

I just found it interesting that LG has been working with B&O's designer. Maybe this has been a way to practise their future collaboration? And the B&O / LG / Harman Kardon setting is interesting, as BEOVOX141 pointed out.

If I were to go for a "conspiracy theory", I'd think of B&O in the past, when Philips came to their rescue at a difficult financial time. And I'd think that perhaps B&O is now doing something similar with LG, behind the scenes

Back on topic:

While I'll probably be tempted by the BV14, I am more & more inclined to wait & see what happens with B&O and LG/OLED.

In a perfect world (for me), the new design would be amazing enough for me to let go of the BV10/11 design that I so love.

On the other hand, if the design will be boring (which Avant is, in my opinion), then I'll be torn between the design of BV14 and the OLED picture quality of the "LG-BV".

I'm pretty sure they'll never put an OLED panel in the BV11/14 line-up, as I think they want to make a statement of the thinness of the screen with OLED – no matter how big the audio/speaker part will be. Interesting design challenge, for sure!

In any case, the future of new BeoVisions is looking very interesting.

Remember the modular TV from the eighties ?http://uk.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/08/best-gadgets-of-the-80s/sony-profeel-pro-tv

we had them at work in our studio. Very "pro" at the time!

 

 

KMA:

In any case, the future of new BeoVisions is looking very interesting.

I agree on that!

I'd be surpriced if the guys in Struer would not come up with something stunning.

There have been a lot of examples, how they made something, that we did not expect!

Some will like what they will bring, others won't.

Some will buy it (right away), others will stick with what they already have.

It has always been so.

Some - again - will 'learn' to love it after a while.

I trust that they will do their best to make that 'LG-BV' a true B&O product.

MM

Millemissen:

I would rather wait for an official confirmation from B&O about the tv solutions from the B&O/LG cooperation, than listening to speculations and rumours.

Sure, but if you only wan't a debate based upon "official confirmation" then you're definitely in the wrong place

You might never get official confirmation on this matter, not even at product launch.

I would'nt call it pure speculations though. Its details about the partnership provided to us from sources. When combined with the official information its all puzzleparts that may help see the big picture.

Here is what we do know:

 

• The partnership with LG is long term and runs for at least 5 years.
• B&O outsources its TVs to LG, and from that point B&O will focus on design, acoustics and smart home integration.
• The first product in this partnership is an OLED TV to be launched in 2017.
• The agreement has an annual savings for B&O potential of DKK 150-200m, when fully implemented over the next three years.
• B&O laid off 55 in april as a part of that deal, with HR giving the cause that development tasks in TV and mechanical to be handled by LG in the future.
• LG makes 40 million TVs a year. B&O makes 30.000.

 

Here is what we've been told:

• When lay off is completed there will be no forward going tv-development left at B&O. The department that developed new TV-electronics and TV-software cease to exist.
• B&O will join its remaining forces on the design of the product and deliver the acoustics and smart home integration - along with the remote control.

How the different parts are put together, and who makes what in the process, may be totally irrevant for most customers. They will meet a Bang & Olufsen TV, that looks and feels like a B&O TV.

But you, the experts, may notice the differences. Both with the functions being discontinued, for multiple reasons, and all the new stuff that the partnership will bring along: Like some of the best tv-technology on the market - if not the best.

/Lars

@Lars

No reason to   me!

But thanks for the 'sum-up' of what we know.

Now it must be clear, that we don't know any (of the interesting) details of how that or the coming BV's will be.

We only know, that it/they will be made in a cooperation with LG!

WHICH - by the way - I applaude, because B&O would never be able to handle the challenges of future display technology on their own.

MM

KMA:

I'm pretty sure they'll never put an OLED panel in the BV11/14 line-up, as I think they want to make a statement of the thinness of the screen with OLED – no matter how big the audio/speaker part will be. Interesting design challenge, for sure!

Maybe they can make use of the space that the thin OLED panel will leave, if put into a BV11/14 design, to enhance the sound even further.

Personally I don't care about 'a thin panel'.

I want 'a good looking tv' with an excellent picture - and ditto sound.

MM

Millemissen:

Personally I don't care about 'a thin panel'.

I want 'a good looking tv' with an excellent picture - and ditto sound.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Interesting point on good looking.

What is good looking in a TV ?

I am sure many like me would say flat and invisible.

However I have lived the Avants - both old and new !

I like the idea of thin(ner) panel. Only keep wondering where to put the AppleTV, IPTV box etc? Very much hoping B&O will take that into consideration too designwise.