ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi Everyone,
This is my first post into this exciting forum. I just acquired two B&O's 5000 and already proud of them.
The BeoMaster 5000 is Type 2005 Serie 03 serial #61668
The BeoLab 5000 is type 5303 series 03 serial #14088
The Beomaster does not seem having been serviced before however I can see two service tags on the underside of the BeoLab where one of them dates back to 74. There is also evidence of poorly executed repairs with bunch of missing screws and cracked output transistors housings, etc... But! buying vintage stuff has its lots of chalenges but a joy to bring them back to their glory days and this is certainly a challenge I can take anytime.
Little about me, well, I was introduced to vintage rigs last starting with the refurbish of a couple of Dual amps (2x CV40, 1 CV80). Surprisingly, the CV40's sounded better compared to the more powerful CV80. Given their reputation, good rigs to start with. Of course not rated as "High End" but built to last forever.
Then I moved to Klein & Hummel ES20 and ET20 tuner and amps. Fantastic machines despite of their circuit simplicity. They share a lot with the amps manufactured back in the 70' but with evident clean design and quality components. The amplifier is not very powerful however very warm and smooth, I never heard something like that before.
Here I am now with B&O where I was attracted by the design, reputation and rarity.
I would like to salute my old friend Menahem Yachad where I saw few old post and he's the one of taught me the good practices at restoring vintage rigs. Thanks to you!
I already spotted few of you where I think they can help me reviving those magnificent machines.
I will start with the one that needs more care (BeoLab) and you will hear from me soon but this time with pictures.
If someone would like to chime in telling approximately the manuafacting year, that would be a great start!
Looking forward working with you!
Oh BTW, congrats Sorens with your BeoLab refurbish, very inspiring for my own project! Guys, let's save them all! :)
Regards,
Beo_Jean
Welcome to the forum and congratulation to your BL/BM 5000, here is something from Frede about build years
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Double warm welcome Jean, as a member of Beoworld and as a member of the Beolab 5000 Owner Club!
Jacques
Thanks a lot for this warm welcome, I wasn't expecting answers on my first day. I'm seeing you both are quite active on the board! And you Jacques from France where are my roots, yes I'm a french from Quebec , Montreal. Salut!
Here a pictures of my new babies, the Beolab and Beomaster 5000 manufactured, if the serial numbers are right, both in 1967! Hey! I wanted pre-70... why? I don't even know myself.
OK here is the Beolab in it's current condition... poor
The etching is for the most part gone and the volume slider missing... I'm hoping to find one. Also missing buttons.
The back of the unit seems fine with only two broken transistor housing.
Stay tuned!
Now, here is the BeoMaster.
In much better condition. One the small etching is partially gone but acceptable. I might still send it to Frede
Sorry guys, I have to find how this forum works. Can't edit my post to reduce the image size.
What is the best to use to clean PCB without leaving an oily film?
Next images will be with the Beolab case opened.
Thanks!
I for one use a Mr Proper bath when I can completely take the the PCB out.
Otherwise, ISP alcohol works fine.
Looking forward to more pictures!
chartz: I for one use a Mr Proper bath when I can completely take the the PCB out. Otherwise, ISP alcohol works fine. Looking forward to more pictures!
Thanks for the advice Jacques!
Opened the top cover today from the Beolab 5000 and not too surprised by what I found. A mix of stain of poured water, soya sauce, busted caps, dust and trace of past poor service skills linked to a dropped heatsink. No way it was like that from factory!
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Just want to be clear! By no means I want to compete with Soren with my thread; actually I'm using it for reference. I won't post detailed step by step like he did but certainly will post pictures of my progress, questions I may have also with my final parts list for future reference for others.
Well, you got your pics down sized, I use a free program called PhotoScape, I crop my pics and resize them to 750 pixels wide (fits this column), I then upload them to PhotoBucket, I can then post more pics to one answer.
Your BL is not as bad as mine so lets see what we have when you finish cleaning, the lost heat sink could be because of an overheated TR, so be careful there around.
And there are no competitions here, only good people giving friendly advises :-)
Take contact with Frede, he will surely be able to help with the bad slider, the missing buttons and of course new fronts
Hi Soren,
I understand now why I could not slide in text between the images, you have a smarter way than me and easier to manage too! I'll do that next.
I must agree that your BL was generally in worst condition than mine but the missing volume slider is a big thing. For the dropped heatsink, actually there is a missing screw that was holding the heatsink to the metal bracket soldered to the PCB. The screw was clearly there in the past but it dropped for some reasons. The related transistor seems to be the original so I will check it and see if still good.
Anyhow, I have another BL coming in as a spare but if I can save both, why not! Is is a Serie 2 instead of 3 like mine but I'm assuming changes will be minimal. Yes, I'll be careful :)
I must admit that this unit requires a lot more attention and patience than others I did, pictures, pictures , pictures, notes...
Jacques, can you tell me what is Mr. Proper? Do you mean Mr Clean? Deluded with water? This isn't too corrosive? Just asking...
Thanks for your help!
Yes, Mr Clean nowadays
I use it pure. It also does wonders with nicotine.
Provided you rinse the thing thoroughly, it won't do any harm, no.
chartz: Yes, Mr Clean nowadays I use it pure. It also does wonders with nicotine. Provided you rinse the thing thoroughly, it won't do any harm, no.
Thanks Jacques!
Am I assuming your are using Mr. Clean only with the PCB's with no switches? Or across the board but rince thoroughly with water and blowed with canned air?
And what lube would recommended? I'm reading that Deoxit has a pretty good line-up of products for cleaning and lubing
Thanks a lot!
Hi everyone,
It's been almost a year since my last progress report on this project only because it sat on the closet all that time not touching anything. Two weeks ago, I decided finally complete the restoration of both units (BM BL 5000). I'm taking care first of the Beolab; I ordered the new slider Windows from Dillen and new faceplates from Fredy and I will restore both units based with my own recipe.
I went thru many steps before starting the actual parts replacement but the photos below are just to show how deep I'm going.
WARNING to sensitive hearts, you might be shocked by some of photos... ;-)
Here are the switches and amplifier boards layout on the soldering bench.
As you can see below,
The switch assembly was completely removed from the main PCB, first to clean them thoroughly and also the reach the carbon potentiometer underneath. Two of the carbon were damaged so I decided to retrofit the entire pot line-up.
All potentiometer were changed to cermet type, the best in the west. Same size potentiometer do not exist anymore so I recycled the bottom legs and adapted the PIHER PTC10LV.
Black drop transistors were changed along with an entire recapping.
Here is the switch assembly completely cleaned!
Very bold! Keep it up, and thanks for the pictures.
chartz: Very bold! Keep it up, and thanks for the pictures.
I didnt dare, but as I have one waiting for restore, maybe next time, like your way of working, keep them coming
This is the power switch assembly that also contains the TEST, and SPEAKER switches. This assembly should NOT be disassembled however. The power switch was jammed ON and due to the complex mechanism, it is really sensitive to contaminants (dust and sticky grease/oil)
Prior cleaning it, I removed both top and bottom metal plates and cleaned with DEOXIT D5 only. It took patience to finally have a reliable switching. I plan to add an X2 capacitor between the switch poles to protect it against switching sparks and also eliminate RFI from the power line. These were not common back in the 60/70' but almost required today to protect your investment.
This is the side view of the power switch where you can see the spherical contact balls.
There is a rotating cantilever that moves the spherical balls making the power contact. These are be very sensitive to sparks causing pitting and reason why to add an X2 capacitor.
The cantilever is not directly actuated by the switch rod but from the action of the top spring. If the cantilever gets gummed, the spring is not strong enough to actuate the cantilever.
Next, will be my special treatment of the control sliders...
My waiting BL 5000 has a broken power switch so I will have to get in there,
Explain for me X2 capacitor and size and a pic when you have it in there
The power line capacitor I'm adding is this one.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/PMR209MB5470M100R30/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF85GIl804cbNIjx7hqDC%252big%3D
This capacitor serves as contact protection and filter. Usually, this capacitor is placed after the switch and after the protection fuse. but in the case of the Beolab, the fuse (2000mA) is after the transformer so if something goes wrong, this cap will take the hit. So I will just add a 2A fuse between the cap and the switch so if there is a short, The transformer and capacitor will be protected. I will post a schematic modification of that area for your convenience.
Beo_Jean: Hi Soren, The power line capacitor I'm adding is this one. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/PMR209MB5470M100R30/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF85GIl804cbNIjx7hqDC%252big%3D This capacitor serves as contact protection and filter. Usually, this capacitor is placed after the switch and after the protection fuse. but in the case of the Beolab, the fuse (2000mA) is after the transformer so if something goes wrong, this cap will take the hit. So I will just add a 2A fuse between the cap and the switch so if there is a short, The transformer and capacitor will be protected. I will post a schematic modification of that area for your convenience.
Thanks Jean
Saw this kind of cap in some other devises and wondered why it was there, now I checked the web about it, makes sense, specially down here in Mexico with our variable power lines
Below are the replacement BC550B and BC560B transistors.
I'm measuring the HFE value for all of them and lay them down on a paper. The purpose is to pair the left and right channel with the same value or as close as possible. Doing this ensure to maintain the same gain on the left and right channels as you replace the transistors. I'm recommended testing all the existing transistors to check if, they at least meet the minimum HFE and re-match them if necessary.
I found huge discrepancy from the transistors I removed and I believe the extra work that might represent, I'm saving it at the end of the process.
Secondly, I'm also identifying the BASE, EMITTER and COLLECTOR of the new transistors and comparing them to the transistor I'm removing. I would hate putting the unit all apart again because I crossed terminals by negligence.
I'm using the PEAK DCA75 for this work.
Now,
Here is my personal treatment of the control sliders. When I opening the amplifier, I quickly found the reason of the sticky controls and, some to the extended, broken slider windows commonly found on the Beolab and Beomasters.
Jammed sliders are not only caused by the hardened grease but also due to the huge amount of dust compounding with the old grease. In mine, there was even pet hair!!! Since I don't plan to go back there anytime soon, I'll put all the chances on my side.
I'm starting with the whole disassembly of the linear pots by removing both circlips holding the shafts to the slider frame
Gently slide out both shafts. Gently pull the carriage out by carefully watching to not lose any of the carriage carbon dimple. If you lose only one, you're done!
For cleaning, I used the powerful, but gentle cleaner, MG SAFE WASH. Gently brush all the parts until they are perfectly clean without any residues.
I'm now ready to reassemble the linear pot. Apply a thin film of non hardening white lithium grease on the shafts ONLY!!! In this case I used the MG White lithium grease.
Once assembled and the circlips installed, I applied a tiny bit of NYE Synthetic Fluorocarbon gel 868L on all four bottom tracks. Move the carriage left to right until the lubricant is evenly spread. Apply little more if needed.
You will see, your sliders will be incredibly smooth and easy to move.
Before assembling the controls to the front panel, I'm putting all the chances on my side to avoid dust going back in there.
First, I'm closing, with sticky construction tape, all the openings as shown.
Next,
I made a custom dust proof film using an acetate sheet and installed on the backside of the front panel. The film will get squeezed between the slider and the front panel when screwed.
This is how it looks from the front face of the front panel.
I dust gets in there, it will be very little.
Goodbye jammed sliders!
Good job, like it