ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Tom Ford just relaunched some of his previous sun glasses. That got me thinking whether B&O has ever considered the same?
The Beoab Penta speakers are still stunning to me, would love them again, could probably even hide an acoustic lense behind the fabric. Even the Beosystem 6500 had an understated power to it.
Also sad to see the Beosound 5 discontinued (although I own one). I never understood why is wasn't a smashing success - it is by far the one piece of B&O that attracts the mot attention when people visit my home and they generally love it. And many are surprised they have never seen it before. Maybe the marketing never really hit the spot? Perhaps because the shops almost always displayed it on a spiny floor stand or wall stand that really is not half as good looking as on a table stand - or even better the original matte metal piedestal stand that, strangely, was never marketed. Well, just dreams.....
sorenfelden: The Beoab Penta speakers are still stunning to me, would love them again, could probably even hide an acoustic lense behind the fabric. Even the Beosystem 6500 had an understated power to it.
No. The economies of scale are against it (manufacturing costs), demand would be very low, showroom space limited and they'd have to be very expensive as they'd be produced in very limited quantities.
There's a big difference releasing previous season sunglasses and re-launching electronic products from previous decades!
Who would buy a cd-player today? A record player... or an audio tape? A FM Stereo Radio??? AM ??? What's that?
Nothing of these hardware has a future, just collectors.
Good sound is not important today, a smartphone is much more important, even in very limited quality.
So there will be no production of old hardware... outdated.
But i dont care about that, i still use my BM7000 System every day, the Pentas and they still look nice. And i feel good with it :)
sorenfelden:Tom Ford just relaunched some of his previous sun glasses. That got me thinking whether B&O has ever considered the same? The Beoab Penta speakers are still stunning to me, would love them again, could probably even hide an acoustic lense behind the fabric. Even the Beosystem 6500 had an understated power to it. Also sad to see the Beosound 5 discontinued (although I own one). I never understood why is wasn't a smashing success - it is by far the one piece of B&O that attracts the mot attention when people visit my home and they generally love it. And many are surprised they have never seen it before. Maybe the marketing never really hit the spot? Perhaps because the shops almost always displayed it on a spiny floor stand or wall stand that really is not half as good looking as on a table stand - or even better the original matte metal piedestal stand that, strangely, was never marketed. Well, just dreams.....
Gret debate. It works for TOM FORD because it's fashion and fashion goes around in a circle. Sometimes it's timeless - the lil black Chenel dress, a slim fit black mens suit, a classic fresh slim fit white shirt even 80s FILA jackets or of course the pea coat.Some of the TOM FORD's are aviators which my gosh, looks incredible no matter what decade you are in - so popular in the early 70s and so now for the last seven or so years.
The BS5 didn't sell because it was so damn expensive!
Technics have introduced a very expensive range and includes CD players. I agree the 5000/6500/7000 series would look beautiful but sadly, it's market is very limited in 2016.
I don't agree with the guy who downed phones. Last year when I had my Audi A3 Sedan S Line, i had the 14 speaker BANG&OLUFSEN system in it. When I did an A/B test of the iPhone 4S playing a 320mbps AAC MP4 file and the cars CD player - there was ZERO difference in sound quality. Both sounded vibrant and alive!
I agree that a more tactile interface for the Moment a la Beosound5 would be good but retro relaunching technology products is a bit different to rehashing a pair of shades. Even things that appear to have stayed the same in fact change incrementally. The Heinz beans label would make an interesting time lapse picture and the tin itself is probably half the thickness it was a few years ago. Much of the style of B&O was to do with the media fed into it; the magic doors don't need to be there as Bluetooth does it. One thing I'd like would be an A1 that incorporates a radio to cut out the middleman, though.......
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Paul W:I don't agree with the guy who downed phones. Last year when I had my Audi A3 Sedan S Line, i had the 14 speaker BANG&OLUFSEN system in it. When I did an A/B test of the iPhone 4S playing a 320mbps AAC MP4 file and the cars CD player - there was ZERO difference in sound quality. Both sounded vibrant and alive!
Actually this comparison doesn't seem quite appropriate. Listening to music in a car is always a compromise. It will never be as good as on a good system at home. A head unit in a car system is also not really comparable to what Martin had in his mind - most are pretty bad.
The point was more about people's listening habits of today than anything else. And I totally agree with Martin here that portability and comfort are much more of a concern than sound quality. And there's no doubt that a good Hi-Fi system at home will beat any portable device (although there are some pretty decent headphones) or anything that's been installed in a car. However, it's not worth the money to most nowadays and that has changed. It is not so much about the decent and concentrated listening alone at home, but more about being able to listen to anything at any place or any time - just like elevator music or what they play in the background at shopping malls. Of course, I don't care about sound quality in those surroundings either ;-)
Similarly, CRTs wouldn't have diminished if it wasn't for reasons of space. Any LCD will always be a compromise and the inferior technology. But people don't care. It's more important to cut the costs and sell it by keeping up the illusion of technological progress. And to many, being able to hang a TV on a wall and having ever bigger screens is obviously reason enough to buy. Fair enough. Firms only produce what they can sell. It took long enough until pircture quality became reasonably good for various sources.
Kai
Manbearpig:Any LCD will always be a compromise and the inferior technology.
That used to be true... but LCDs and especially OLED screens can be fantastic.
p.
Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons.
Resolution is. I agree, picture quality is perfectly alright nowadays. But the signal quality has a lot to do with it! Just like the quality of recordings when playing music. Many decent gamers still use CRTs. Greetings
Die_Bogener: Who would buy a cd-player today? A record player... or an audio tape? A FM Stereo Radio??? AM ??? What's that? Nothing of these hardware has a future, just collectors.
.
Actually many people i know
People want to go to a shop and buy a cd, plug it in and play
Companies like yamaha are making SACD players worth $8,000 - so i think there is a market
Many people dont want their credit card details stored online to purchase, would rather the physical sensation of plug and play
I would too except i dont like the storage.
And vinyl is very hip again.
Vinyl yes. Second hand prices are insane. Everything else unfortunately seems to decline...
Manbearpig:Greetings
BeoNut since '75
In a way though they are releasing products that hark back to older days but with updated technology. The reintroduction of wood and some of the beoplay products are distinctly retro and all the better for it.
I do agree though that it would be great to rerelease some of the older products but I guess it's just not financially viable.
there are an abundance of manufactures successfully doing modern retro, you just need to know your market and set the parameters.
didn't Panasonic re introduce a Technics turntable last year breathing on it with modern components and the initial run sold out straight away.
many years ago Datsun bought back a number of 240Z's, restored them and resold them "as if new" so there are many ways to skin a cat and think of the free advertising and marketing one could achieve from cherry picking iconic products....
people do buy items because they look cool....
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
So very true Andrew. It's also because of the way that people listen to music now. I guess the SONY Walkman change it all way back but for most, music travels with you, it's part of a lifestyle - the days of old men sat in armchairs savouring every musical moment from a HiFi are mostly gone but for a few.
Yes Mark. The Technics turntable whilst looking retro is a BRAND NEW design from the ground up I believe but at £3500, it's steep and whether the clubs and DJs buy into it, i'm not sure since the DJ of today has grown up with the incredible Pioneer CDJ2000 Nexus etc.
The nostalgia is beautiful - I love the 5000 series and the Ouverture with the bright blue speakers BUT I'm also incredibly excited by the new retro A1 and being honest, that would do a lot more for me than a 5000 or Ouverture nowadays as I'm use iTunes for my music/HD video/4K camera.
Maybe a limited run of the 5000 series/Beogram at £10K upwards for B&Os 100th Birthday??????
Aussie Michael:Companies like yamaha are making SACD players worth $8,000 - so i think there is a market
Barry Santini:People tend to fetishize or relicize older objects, imbuing them with attraction or appeal disproportionately out of sync with their "real" value
Perfectly said and absolutely true. Panasonic is a large enough company they can play with a niche line of halo products, and even then unless they turn the numbers I expect them to be short lived. Their TV market is suffering, they are pulling out of the US market from what I hear, at least for the near term.
I still think B&O is nuts to produce an expensive halo speaker like the BL90, no matter how much I respect the design. I think they will wind up losing money they can ill afford to lose and it diverted money from things they should have been concentrating on, like the Moment s/w. I'd be happy to be wrong but that's how I see it right now.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Jeff: Barry Santini:People tend to fetishize or relicize older objects, imbuing them with attraction or appeal disproportionately out of sync with their "real" value I still think B&O is nuts to produce an expensive halo speaker like the BL90, no matter how much I respect the design. I think they will wind up losing money they can ill afford to lose and it diverted money from things they should have been concentrating on, like the Moment s/w. I'd be happy to be wrong but that's how I see it right now.
I think it depends upon their business model. Yes, there will be some money locked in development of the BL90 but that will be amortised as investment and therefore adds present and future value to the company worth. It will also provide future cash flow as it sets up the next gen products whether that be a BL100 or a BP A1.
There will be some cash locked up is BL90 build and repair stock but I expect the BL90 will only build to an order. When buying mine, typical lead time is 6weeks. However, mine were effectively ready off the shelf. Once those stocks are gone, you wait (or a dealer had to wait somewhere). As of March this year only 4 pairs were ordered by customers and I was either no.4 or 5. Thus B&O will be using a "just-in-time" production model, whereas Panasonic will have to commit big-time in releasing any product.
I guess it is likE another of my favorites - Aston Martin (another cash-limited dinosaur). They are currently making a small profit working on "specials" and limited runs to finance future models. Thus it seems, the business model works making a few rapidly changing variants pays better than a long run of standard cars. Again all JIT managed from marketing, to concept, to engineering and fabrication. Large turnover is not the only model and it is one that is probably obsolete for anyone on a small scale/high value product
It's nice for a company to be big enough to create those halo products subsidised if necessary by mainstream stuff . It can offer something to which the mainstream buyer can relate/aspire. I wouldn't want a scaled down BL 90 but at least it's a Top Trumps B&O product the press can get some attention with. Meanwhile it's good to see B&O featuring previous products in multi room setups.
Mr 10Percent: Jeff: Barry Santini:People tend to fetishize or relicize older objects, imbuing them with attraction or appeal disproportionately out of sync with their "real" value I still think B&O is nuts to produce an expensive halo speaker like the BL90, no matter how much I respect the design. I think they will wind up losing money they can ill afford to lose and it diverted money from things they should have been concentrating on, like the Moment s/w. I'd be happy to be wrong but that's how I see it right now.
Mr 10%, Did Jeff's comment leave your speechless?
With respect to the BL90, I'm going to assume B&O knows what they're doing. Aren't most ~$100K and up speakers manufactured by small, niche companies? Seems like there's a different business model for these types of products. And, hopefully, there will be some "trickle down" to more affordable speakers. Also, it probably helped to attract and retain high quality engineering talent (how many places are building such cutting edge speakers). Hard to measure, for sure.
I definitely agree B&O needs to clean up their software act. If the BeoMusic app is the prime interface for all of these new BeoPlay speakers (A9, A6, Essence), it's a very weak first impression.
not really. Just proven to myself that I'm useless typing on a phone with my fat fingers. See below
just to add.....i would not be surprised if B&O's business plan for the 90's is between 20 - 50 pairs worldwide per year. I doubt Meridian sell that many DSP8000's a year. How many B&W 800's? Not a big market I think
Die_Bogener: Who would buy a cd-player today? A record player...
Who would buy a cd-player today? A record player...
Me. I have an Oppo universal disc player. It plays CDs, DVD-V, DVD-A, and SACD, all region, all video formats.
Yes, I download non-officially released recordings and videos, but I always burn to disc. Anything officially released, I buy a physical copy.
I have a Dual CS5000 turntable (purchased new in the early '90's). It is still going strong, even with the original belt. I still purchase and play records that can't be found on CD.
D
@Doonesbury
That is exactly the point.
Those who prefer physical media already have a solution.
The need for launching a B&O cd-player (or even a vinyl player) is way to small.
Besides - these devices would be way too expensive. A lot of those, who might be interested, would avoid buying into them anyway.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
It might be okay to have some of the retro look in the Beoplay line of products. However if Bang & Olufsen were to relaunch the past, they will then be perceived as the past. I love the Beolab 90 and would love to have it. What stops me from buying it is my living room is too small and I promised my wife I would order a new car.
I think that Jeff is expressing some of the anxiety I have about B&O. Their presence in North America is shrinking. If they close a few more stores I will probably look elsewhere.
I agree with those who would like a junior version of the Beolab 90......maybe a Beolab 45 for around $30000 USD.
Mr 10Percent: just to add.....i would not be surprised if B&O's business plan for the 90's is between 20 - 50 pairs worldwide per year. I doubt Meridian sell that many DSP8000's a year. How many B&W 800's? Not a big market I think
Mr 10Percent I think you are probably right about the numbers sold to end users of BL90s.
But hang on a minute, if you are right, that is far less sold to end users than on display in B&O stores.
If that is the case it seems like utter business madness!
I do feel so sorry for the dealers now, it seems for many of the ones I speak to. They think the business model just isn't working anymore.
Sorry for the thread drift.
@Beoboy68
About a week ago I forwarded that very request, with the exact same picture right here!
Couldn't agree more