ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi guys,
I have a pair of Beolit 15s, and they are absolutely fantastic. When used on their own they have incredible presence for a single speaker solution, but when paired in stereo they are something else!
Anyway, they've given me the B&O bug, and I'm seriously considering buying a couple of Beoplay S3s for the lounge, where they'll be hooked up to a computer I use as a media centre. As good as the Beolit 15s are when paired in stereo for music, they have around 250ms of latency in this mode which means the audio is not synced to the picture. A single Beolit 15 doesn't have anywhere near this latency, so it's the process of syncing two for stereo sound that introduces this. Does the S3 experience the same latency issue when paired with a second speaker?
Also, does the stereo pairing work if the input is a wired connection? The Beolit 15 will only play Bluetooth audio when paired in stereo mode.
And finally, can two S3s be paired with a physical connection?
Thanks for your time, I hope to own a pair of these soon!
There is a longer thread about the S3's.
Maybe you can find answers there.
Do have a look at the chart that Dave posted on page 4.
http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/16666.aspx?PageIndex=4
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
@cds
The latency issue is really a BT/chipset issue. Since BT wont allow you to pair with two devices, the stereo functionality is based on a workaround!
The second speaker (Slave) is actually parring with the first (Master). The master will receive the full set of audio data, split it and then transmit the second part of the stereo signal to the Slave.
Its actually a very clever way of avoiding the system limitations, but there are a couple of drawbacks.
First. The Master needs time to process and re-transmit to the Slave, and that operation takes time, which translate into part of the latency you experiencing!
Second. The BT link will be pushed to the max and will be more prone to dropouts, especially the slave link! In order to compensate for this, the system has a buffer to better cope with minor link issues. The bigger the buffer, the more reliable the system will perform, but again,- at the cost of increased latency!
The bluish board in the picture below is the S3 BT system!
Thank you both for your replies.
Millemissen: That table was very useful. It looks like using USB or line-in would be my best bet, along with daisy chaining for stereo. I think I'd prefer USB input so that I'm using the internal DAC in the master speaker rather than relying on the on-board audio of my motherboard. I'd imagine that the S3 DAC is of a higher quality than the latter.
BEOVOX141: Interesting, thank you. I guessed as much as to the delay experienced with wireless stereo. I would imagine that the master speaker also introduces a slight intentional delay in its own output, to compensate for time taken to transmit to the slave.
So now the technical details are out of the way, I'm interested in the more subjective stuff: people's opinions on the sound quality. I don't have any B&O stores close by, but I bought my first Beolit 15 based on what I'd read, and it blew my expectations out of the water. So much so, that I bought a second one.
I'm particularly interested to read opinions of those who have compared the Beolit 15 sound to the S3. I note they have a very similar amplifier configuration, but the drivers and enclosures are quite different, the S3 being a sealed alignment and the Beolit 15 utilising passive radiators and more tweeters.
You mentioned in your first post:
"for the lounge, where they'll be hooked up to a computer I use as a media centre"
If sound quality is paramount, you should always go wired! BT will offer wireless convenience, but there is a penalty in quality!
If its a stationary setup, there are better alternatives than the S3 in the BL range, especially if you consider the "pre-owned" market!
BEOVOX141: I'd certainly be interested in learning about second-hand alternatives in the same price range! It is a stationary setup, but what attracted me to the S3 is the connectivity (having friends and family connect their phones with ease), the value for money (I can get a pair of new units shipped from the USA to the UK for a little over £200, last check), and the space-saving design. I live in a small place and will be replacing a large pair of Wharfedale floor standing speakers and a huge Denon AV amp, with these. I may even replace the computer with some sort of streaming device eventually, to save even more space.
Sound quality is important, and I'm glad to have discovered the line-in and USB options the S3 offers. Although, I have to admit that when it comes to perceiving audio quality, I notice the difference between different speakers far more than the difference between compressed and uncompressed audio streams. I did an ABX test with MP3 music samples from 96kbps to 320kbps and uncompressed PCM, and to my surprise, I could not tell a difference beyond 192kbps. Since then, I've relaxed a little when it comes to audio sources. Before my first Beolit 15 arrived, I had imagined that I'd be using the line-in most of the time, but I hadn't yet experienced aptX, which has really impressed me. Regardless, I'd be making use of the USB input and daisy chaining to avoid latency issues and dropouts, and hey - I may as well use the highest-quality option available to me.
I am guessing you are in the UK, but a quick check would give me the following options i Denmark today:
£180 would by me a Beovison 7-32 including a Beolab 7-1, Toss the telly (or not ?) and you still have a 2*3 way speaker system, powered by 750w IcePower!
Even if you add a zero to that price tag, you still wouldn't be able to find anything that could match it in the current B&O lineup!
£450 would get you a set of BL8000, they definitely qualify for small a footprint, and the iconic design,- really is forever.
If you're impressed by the Beolit, - you will be blown away by the Beolabs.
BEOVOX141: Oh my, the Beolab 7-1 looks like a powerhouse! They're definitely not as cheap here in the UK, but still seem to represent good value at around £400. Twice as much as I'd pay for the 2 x S3, though, unless I could get my friend in Copenhagen to source me one on the second-hand market over there. Incidentally, I visited him a few weeks ago; beautiful city, and I was impressed with the capabilities of his A9, too :D
The BL 8000 seem to go for roughly twice the price here, too. They look great.
cds: It is a stationary setup, but what attracted me to the S3 is the connectivity (having friends and family connect their phones with ease),
It is a stationary setup, but what attracted me to the S3 is the connectivity (having friends and family connect their phones with ease),
If you wire them up, you won't be able to use the bluetooth option - unless, of course you plug the wires out etc.
Not a solution, that one could call 'with ease'.
Of course the BL7-1 is an alternative, but not everyone will like the soundbar-like shape of it.
The S3 is IMO a very good smaller speaker and you'd have more flexibility in placement with (2 of) them.
Hard to say what would be best in your place and for your purpose and expectations.
A speaker setup may sound good in one place and not so good in another and vice versa.
I would not judge alone from the 'specs' of a speaker.
Millemissen: could you clarify what you mean when you say that I won't be able to use the bluetooth option when they are wired up? The table on page four of the post you linked me to suggests that bluetooth can be used as a source when the units are daisy chained, unless you mean that using USB as a source stops the use of bluetooth?
The BL7-1 is very tempting despite the extra cost, and I do like the shape of it. But I wonder how it is with music if it was designed as a centre speaker. I can't seem to find any reviews on it, is this because they were never sold separately from the TV?
I also wonder what the connectivity is like on the BL7-1. Some sources suggest I might need an adapter of some sort.
Yes, I meant: when the 'master'-speaker is hardwired!
If you like the 7-1 and have the right spot for it, why not go for that!
Actually it isn't a center speaker - it is a stereo speaker, but the seperation of the two channels
is (of course) not great.
This however, can in some cases (when used for background lstening or when walking around in the room) be advantageous.
When connected to a tv, that also features external R/L speakers, it can act a center speaker - but this is a funtion of the surround decoder in the tv.
And yes, it will need to be triggered to turn on/off, when not connected to a B&O device.
Some devices have a trigger-out. You can find an example of the wiring for that here:
http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/42942.aspx
Alternatively you could use the B&O Play S8 hub, a Playmaker or the BS Essence (box).
These would provide you with connections for an external bluetooth device. The Essence has bluetooth built-in.
The Beolab is NOT a centre speaker its a stereo speaker, the Beolab 7-4 is the centre version.
And that makes the 7-1 extremely capable as "music" speaker, I would be glad to write you a comprehensive review.
Its 3 way, its big which means the ABL doesn't roll off that easily, and the entire box is made from a sheet of aluminium.
And it packs the power!
I does need a trigger signal (0-5v) but since you used a PC..? that signal is easily retrieved from there. Other than that you need ONE Powerlink cable and a DIN to RCA or 3.5mm jack converter, depending on your source!
Last thing you could stream BT to the PC rather than the speakers directly... ? That would fix the latency issue as well...
Thanks, guys. This is my first venture into B&O products so I'm unfamiliar with the integration systems they use, but I'll do some reading on the subject.
BEOVOX141: If you feel like writing a review, I'd be more than happy to read it, and I'm sure others would too :)