ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
That is, my B&O Eagle in the shape of the V1. I've discussed this TV at length here along with others, when it first came out, and my thoughts about it re a possible purchase. As I've mentioned in one or two recent threads relating to the V1, it has indeed arrived, and I thought I'd share my thoughts re a review of it now I own one and have it set up in my home. Please excuse the length, but I do like to be as accurate and balanced as possible in my comments.... I hope you enjoy the read...
It's been almost two weeks since my AV Eagle in the form of an 40" V1 in dark grey landed, and has been comfortably settled in it's nest in my lounge room.
It was accompanied by a low B&O cabinet in a jet black, matte and slightly rubberised finish; open underneath, with what looks like a drawer revealing itself to be a softly damped lid that conceals equipment housed within, and upon which cabinet the TV sits on it's slightly reclining stainless steel stand.
I'd requested the dealer to attend & assist with the installation, as fitting the stand is really a two person job, and care needs to be taken with the painted metal finish.
As B&O make to order all four boxes (cabinet, TV, Stand for TV, and remote) arrived palleted on the back of a large truck, direct by air from Denmark.
Unpacking revealed the care taken with custom packaging to be extreme, including paper the thickness of card stock placed around all hinged areas where the front and rear sections of the TV join to obviate any likelihood of damage through movement and friction in this area.
As I wanted to enjoy the setting up as much as possible myself, I was happy to bid the dealer adieu once the cabinet had been placed, and the TV assembled with it's stainless steel stand and placed upon said cabinet.
The remote is a work of engineering art, cast in zinc, and with a wonderful balance and tactile feel.
Switching on reveals some of the magic that I'm sure endears B&O to it's customers, similarly as Apple does to theirs; the screen remains black, but Bang & Olufsen in white text appears on the black screen on the lower right hand corner. Then, like in movie theatres of old, the screen 'parts' from the middle as black 'curtains' move from the centre out to the sides, revealing the picture behind, and the sound slowly ramps up to a preset level.
Similarly, when switching off, the same black 'curtains' slide across from the sides to meet at the centre and 'extinguish' the picture; similarly the sound fades down from whatever volume you were listening to, to zero as the screens close and the TV is 'off'.
It's a very theatrical touch, but one that reminds me of my first Mac, when I put it to sleep and saw the little pulsing white light, as if it were 'breathing' for which I named it 'Einstein'. Theatrical or not, it's a clever and thoughtful design touch which humanises technology, and endears it to one, rather than remaining some inanimate object there to do a task, which depending upon the device's abilities and human interface, may well please or annoy in equal measure.
Setup of the TV, re tuning in channels etc, is easy and intuitive, with classic white text on black background menus being well laid out aesthetically and commensurately easy to follow, and with an underlying intelligence to the script that shows the handiwork of the engineer rather than the marketing man appealing to the lowest common denominator.
In short, operation of the TV is a delight.
Over the past near two weeks, I've watched some TV - namely the Tour de France, and the F1 race at Hockenheim - both outside live broadcasts, and as good a judge of picture quality as any as regards broadcast TV, with natural colours found in real life such as grass, skin tones and sky, to judge picture quality by as regards a natural and accurate colour rendition. On such material, I did not find the picture quality as regards naturalness of colour wanting in any way.
The set has a number of pre-set picture modes; adaptive which adjusts ALL elements of picture quality to prevailing light; game - which gives a faster panel response - and movie, which gives colour temperature of 6,500 kelvin and 2.2 gamma and adjusts all other elements of picture reproduction to suit movie material.
Thus far, I find adaptive the best for general TV viewing both night and day, and movie mode for Bluray and DVD. Picture modes can also be associated with specific inputs for later automatic recall when selecting that input.
For each input, you can additionally custom configure all the picture settings if you so wish, and consign them to memory so they will be automatically selected with that input. Ditto sound modes, of which there are a quite a few. But again, the default in sound modes is 'adapative' which adjusts the setting automatically according to the material being played, and thus far I have found no reason to change that.
Digging a little deeper into the 'advanced' settings, we find controls to do with the surround sound processor; I note the use of a tone control done in DSP to mimic that of the original Quad amplifier - a tonal 'tilt' control. One can also preset the auto loudness (Adapative Bass linearisation) as regards the levels of boost, and whether it is on or off, again on an input by input case.
As far as the sound options are concerned, re the surround sound processor, it is state of the art, and offers some quite unique features not readily found elsewhere.
So after an initial period of digging in to the various menus, exploring, it was time to sit down to some HD material for which the set is arguably going to be in it's element - Bluray movies in full 1920 x 1080p HD.
First up was the Oliver Stone sweeping historical epic of 'Alexander revisited' - this with an extra 30 mins of material over the original theatrical release, and the directors cut which followed on DVD.
Fortified with Hommus and Pita Bread, a little Pate and a Glass of Wine, I sat through the movie, trying very hard - to use that hackneyed phrase, - to pick my jaw up off the floor.
The picture quality was utterly superb - there were times I found my thoughts drifting to that of thinking the picture was like a superb Hi Res photograph taken with a full frame sensor 35mm camera - the clarity, detail, naturalness of colour and out of focus (bokeh) effects superbly conveyed. At other times, I found the richness, and yet subtly graduated shades of colour reminiscent of an oil painting, and at others, I felt as if I could step through the picture frame and into real life.
Since that initial movie viewing, I have put around a dozen or so Bluray movies and a couple of DVD's through the TV, and have found my initial feelings and comments noted above to be consistent throughout.
In short, it would be no exaggeration to say I am thrilled to bits with the unit; it is everything I had hoped for and then some, by quite a margin as regards it's operation and performance on both picture and sound quality grounds.
I can also see that finally, I have a way forward re moving on from separates and into a very high quality, yet relatively affordable, integrated, fully active, AV system, with the inbuilt surround sound processor and active centre channel speaker incorporated into the set.
In the interests of fairness and balance, I've also looked hard to find weaknesses in performance, as all current TV technologies (CRT, Plasma and LCD) have virtues and vices re the technology in use.
One of my personal criticisms of LCD sets, is motion blur on movement, and so called dirty screen effects, where you see a lot of smeared background detail, due again, slow panel response times.
On full HD material, I have not observed this effect at all; however, there was one scene on Broadcast TV during the Tour de france, no doubt shot from the back of a motorbike in front of the moving riders, where there was a crash; I was quite close to the TV at the time - about 1.5 metres, and could see then some visible motion blur - but I would stress that I was deliberately looking for it, and was also sitting much closer to the set than would be recommended vis a vis the screen size and resolution of the material being broadcast.
In all other broadcast viewing situations (TV in Adapative picture mode, sitting approx. 2.8 metres away) I have not noticed this phenomena. This is of course not to say that it is not happening, it is just that it is at such a low level if it is happening, to not be noticeable. As the effect is a pet hate of mine re LCD's I am greatly pleased about this, as I did go out of my way to try and see it even before purchase, let alone the more intense testing that one can do in a home environment.
For HD Bluray movie watching, I prefer a fully darkened room, and here I was using the factory preset 'movie' mode, and the TV was coupled to my Sony Bluray player by a high quality HDMI lead (a sensible, not silly money audiophool cable) with the Bluray players picture presets set to 'Theatre room' - again giving the best picture balance/output for movies. Seating distance was again around the 2.5 - 2.8 metre mark viewing a 40" screen.
The other bugbear of Edge Light LED/LCD tv's in particular, is so called backlight bleed, or sometimes referred to as clouding, smokey screen, or even flashlight effects; it is in actuality a slight lack of homogeneity in the backlight illumination that shows through the screen in a fully dark, i.e. no signal, situation.
In my background research before buying this TV and it's associated technology, I came across an AV forum discussing said problems with edge lit Sony TV's - the thread ran to over 330 pages, with many owners changing out their TV's on warranty claims to try and fix the problem. Unfortunately, the problem is pretty much inherent to the technology, so if it truly disturbs one, then a plasma is probably the only solution. To make matters worse, it appears to differ on an example by example basis as well - perhaps something to do with production standards/tolerances etc.
However, technology does move on and things improve; in the FlatpanelsHD review of the B&O V1, they could find no significant issues with backlight bleed, and so it appears on my set.
In a fully blacked out room, and with zero signal, i.e. a fully black screen, I can just see some minor traces of clouding. However, in both normal TV viewing, and movies, I have not readily noticed it, despite looking for it, including the movie U571 which is mostly shot inside a supposed submarine, with very low levels of light, such as torches etc illuminating the faces of the actors, and where I found the black levels overall to be superb.
No doubt it will be there; it's the nature of edge light LCD's in particular - but with a measured light output re black levels of just 0.05cd/m2, a brightness level of 122cd/m2 to give a contrast ratio of 2440: 1 (figures published by FlatpanelsHD) this compares most favourably with arguably the top plasma out there - the Panasonic VT50 - which boasts 0.00 cd/m2, a brightness of 97cd/m2 (no contrast figures given) - again the figures published by FlatpanelsHD, - such that the black levels of the V1 whilst not quite at plasma level, (or a full LED backlight dynamic local dimming LCD) are such that real world differences in black levels are going to be very hard to distinguish.
In fact, I pixel peeped on all the test photos of the V1 v's the mainstream competition, and only the VT50 Panasonic truly compares IMHO.
So in summary, whilst nothing is perfect, and imperfections due technology can be found if one chooses to go looking for faults, either measured or viewable, they are at such a low level as to be of insignificance during normal viewing, on both TV and Blurays, and in both low illuminated, full daylight, and fully blacked out rooms, unless of course you are an OCD or personality obsessive who will likely find fault in everything, pleasure in nothing, and be eternally dissatisfied in life.
I do consider that with this TV, and importantly as the centrepiece of an high quality, exceptionally user friendly, stylish and very low box count AV system, this unit represents the future for me personally, and away from the clutter, angst and audiophool rhetoric of the audiophile scene.
Thanks for listening...
Best Regards
John...
Like any technology, there plus and minuses and i personally prefer the LED LCD. The bleeding i just expect to occur, and get round it by having just a little background light, just a little.
For a film that brings out this technology to it's best, try watching "The Sorcerers Apprentice"! Not for the film which isn't bad, but there are lots of dynamic dark scenes and some nice sound to boot.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Nice review. Looks like I will buy a V1 as well in the near future.
Congratulations ! Nice review !
Please, post pics !
And what about the integrated multimedia player ?
John: One of my personal criticisms of LCD sets, is motion blur on movement, and so called dirty screen effects, where you see a lot of smeared background detail, due again, slow panel response times.
Hi John, good review there.
I think the motion blur issues that plagued early LCDs has gone since the launch of 200Hz LED panels with improved backlighting. I used to see motion issues on my old BV7s, but since the 200Hz panels, it's not an issue at all - never see it with fast-moving football, for example.
As I mentioned in the BV12 thread, I prefer these newer LED LCD panels for sport. Wasn't overly impressed with how plasma panel copes with sport and finer detail with grass (tennis, golf, football). Blends the picture a little too much for my liking.
A pleasure to read for sure. Sounds like it could be my next TV.
Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen!
A great review John !
Thank you for taking the time to compose it - and include all the research tit-bits.
Enjoy
BeoNut since '75
Absolutely terrific review John! I'm delighted that you are so happy with it! Well done! Do let us all know how well it performs once you've connected the Apple TV box.
Best
Paul
Chris Townsend: Like any technology, there plus and minuses and i personally prefer the LED LCD. The bleeding i just expect to occur, and get round it by having just a little background light, just a little. For a film that brings out this technology to it's best, try watching "The Sorcerers Apprentice"! Not for the film which isn't bad, but there are lots of dynamic dark scenes and some nice sound to boot.
I agree re the pluses and minuses of technology. On my Sony Trinitron CRT, on a test pattern judicious tweaking of the yoke magnets, and magnets placed around the screen, by a serviceman/technician, failed to render a circle perfectly round on a test pattern. Yet on broadcast TV and movies, this geometry imperfection was never noticed - UNLESS you went right out of your way to try and see it.
For TV usage, I use a single 60watt table lamp behind me; I might try it on movies as you recommend.
Thanks for the recommendation re the movie..
Kind regards
vlohjr1:A pleasure to read John as always and i had the same feeling when my v1 white 40 was installed wall mounted in the kitchen....enjoy Pity the first batches of wall brackets are recalled for safety reasons Regards Vince
Pity the first batches of wall brackets are recalled for safety reasons
Regards
Vince
Hi Vince - thank you for your kind remarks - I do hope the issue of wall brackets is expeditiously resolved.
Kind Regards
Hubbe: Nice review. Looks like I will buy a V1 as well in the near future.
Thank you also for your kind remarks Hubbe - I doubt you'll be disappointed.
John..
Steph: Congratulations ! Nice review ! Please, post pics ! And what about the integrated multimedia player ?
I'm more than happy to post some pics - but the limitations are my iPhone 4S is the only digital camera I possess at the moment, and I'd shudder to show pictures of the lounge which is in upheaval as I'm changing all the furniture around, hopefully selling off my separates and gaining B&O speakers.
Can I upload photos direct from my Mac, or do I have to upload to a third party share service such as Flickr first?
I used to use MobileMe Gallery - but that has gone with the shift from MobileMe to iCloud.
With respect to the multimedia player, I confess to having made scant experiment. I have loaded Plex media server on my Mac to try it out, however, I also bought in anticipation of the arrival of the TV, some quality HDMI cables and an latest Apple TV, as with the arrival of Mountain Lion, I will be able to mirror all the content on my Mac to the TV via this little box of tricks.
It is my understanding that the Apple TV goes considerably beyond what a simple media browser can do, hence it will be my media browser of choice.
Certainly the ability to stream all my numerous Podcast movies on my Mac is proving to be highly entertaining and enjoyable - much nicer again than viewing them on my 27" iMac screen.
Thank you again for your most kind remarks re the review
moxxey: John: One of my personal criticisms of LCD sets, is motion blur on movement, and so called dirty screen effects, where you see a lot of smeared background detail, due again, slow panel response times. Hi John, good review there. I think the motion blur issues that plagued early LCDs has gone since the launch of 200Hz LED panels with improved backlighting. I used to see motion issues on my old BV7s, but since the 200Hz panels, it's not an issue at all - never see it with fast-moving football, for example. As I mentioned in the BV12 thread, I prefer these newer LED LCD panels for sport. Wasn't overly impressed with how plasma panel copes with sport and finer detail with grass (tennis, golf, football). Blends the picture a little too much for my liking.
Hi Moxxey - thank you too for your most kind remarks.
It's good to hear that by and large the motion problem with LCD's has been resolved.
I find the detail clarity and sharpness on Full HD program material mesmerising - especially as it seems completely natural and not some consequence of over zealous edge sharpening of images etc. My first movie 'marathon' with it, was 3 movies in a night, one of which was the newly released film on Cleopatra on Bluray - all four and a quarter hours of it - plus the two other movies - and I had zero sense of eye strain.
The picture comes across as sharper and clearer than plasma, but as I say, very long viewing periods have seen zero eye strain in my experience thus far.
beocool: A pleasure to read for sure. Sounds like it could be my next TV.
Thank you beocool for your most kind remarks.
I can't seriously see anyone being hugely disappointed with this TV overall.
I can only speak for myself, but I did a lot of research before buying and there's nothing out there in the market place as regards a mainstream TV that offers this combination of features and picture performance at the price being asked IMHO.
I'd say buy with confidence.
elephant: A great review John ! Thank you for taking the time to compose it - and include all the research tit-bits. Enjoy
Hi Elephant - thank you also for your most kind remarks
I realise my review is a bit long, but no one is paying me to edit it... lol... and I'm trying to be as fair and objective as possible in my assessment of it, hence going into some detail.... I'm glad you found that helpful and hopefully fairly balanced.
Paul W: Absolutely terrific review John! I'm delighted that you are so happy with it! Well done! Do let us all know how well it performs once you've connected the Apple TV box. Best Paul
Thank you too Paul, for your most kind remarks.
Yes, I'm exceptionally pleased with it. There were some pre-purchase concerns re reported issues with paint scratches around hinges etc, but in the event these came to naught, as the unit had substantial protection around the hinges as mentioned - the paint finish is flawless.
I really like it aesthetically, and find it growing on me daily - yes, I admit I prefer the looks of the BV 10-40, BUT I have to balance out spending X on a TV and have enough left over to build a set of matching speakers to go with it to establish a complete B&O AV system, rather than blowing the budget on just speakers, or a higher end B&O TV, and be left with a half finished system.
Once the unit was paid for and a delivery date proffered, I set about buying an Apple TV, a couple of decent but not silly priced HDMI cables, and an latest Apple dual band airport express to extend and strengthen my distributed wireless network.
I installed all of these within the first couple of days of ownership, along with my Sony Bluray player and a Sony DVD/HDD SD digital recorder, into the shelf area of the cabinet covered by the damped door. The cabinet is actually designed for the BV 10-40 and is identical to the one made for the now obsolete 8-40, except that there is no cable slot on the top; cable ingress and exit is achieved either by the ventalations slots on the back or underneath.
Setting up the Apple TV required quite a lot of button pushing with the included remote re entering a complex password to get on the WiFi network, and as it is behind the TV, requires line of sight with the remote which of course works on infra-red. However, once on the network, one can control the Apple TV using the free Apple remote application on both ones iPhone 4S and iPad over the WiFi network, not infra-red - this works extremely well indeed, and whilst having the supplied PUC cables and downloaded the commensurate PUC tables for it from the internet, so as to control via the Beo 4, the iPhone/iPad interface is such that I don't feel the need to change from that at this point in time.
It also allows the Apple TV to be hidden away, as infra red is no longer needed, OR you could of course just attach one of the supplied PUC cables/infra-red blasters to it.
Essentially, I just select the input on the Beo 4 remote, which in this case is HDMI 2, which I've named 'Apple TV' (which comes up on the TV screen as Apple TV) and control the selection of media and volume etc, plus start, stop, pause, change track etc, all from the iphone/iPad.
I'm sure the PUC + Beo 4 remote solution will work well too, but I do like the visual feedback you get from a screen with the iPhone/iPad.
Either way, there are options as to which one might prefer to use re a remote to control the Apple TV.
As to performance? Well, it's important, as I'm in the process of slowly ripping my entire CD collection to HD on my Mac, backed up by Time Capsule + a second backup on to a Firewire HD, and will be streaming my music to the Apple TV as my main means of getting music from my source (computer) to the B&O V1 when I have it finished as a complete AV system with attached B&O active speakers etc.
I've elected to go with Apple Lossless, as with a 1,000 + CD's and a HD that's already over 1Tb used with movies, music etc, I need to be a little mindful of space, but don't want any quality reduction at least in theory, as regards ripping. And ALAC can be easily converted into FLAC or AIFF or WAV etc.
Streaming some of my jazz albums from computer to the Apple TV and thence listening to them on the V1 reveals the sound to be exceptionally clear and natural sounding as regards voice. As the system is still new, I believe that some limited hours are atypical for a speaker sound system to settle in - B&W quote around 15 hours for temperature and mechanical stiffness effects to stabilise, so I haven't tried 'pushing' it.
But in the role of a centre channel for AV, I'm sure it'll do quite well, albeit I would not expect it to keep up with the likes of a 7.4 for example.
All in all, I regard the Apple TV as being an integral part of the experience of owning this TV, at least for me as a predominately Mac user, albeit I have two PC's as well - for both media browsing re photos and podcasts etc, and of course music.
Hope this helps - please let me know if there's more information that you'd like in this regard
Kind regards and thanks again everyone for your most kind remarks
I will admit that the v1 has grown on me a little only in the black colour though, but i must confess as a gamer it is very laggy... the picture quality is very good to but on a recent demo i did detect some motion tearing when demoing the life bluray.
The sound quality is a highlight of this tv and it can go pretty loud. I'm glad that you are happy with your purchase and enjoyed reading your opinion about it. I too will be looking forward to some pictures when you can.
Beoplay A2
Hi John,
Thank you for that! It all sounds fabulous! I love your posts, really inspiring!
You can upload directly one picture to each post via the [Compose|Options|Preview] tabs at the top of the Reply text in gray - just click Options and follow your instinct. My gut instinct is that this leads to space consumption on the Beoworld server if you upload the picture a second time in another thread.
Alternatively store on Beoworld server via your profile page and access that via the movie strip icon in the line just above the text reply input area. The disadvantage here is that when the site evolves the pictures can disappear. So some use a larger user base (= safer) service like imageshack or flicker. You still use the movie strip icon to access - but link via copy&paste of urls. Advantage ? you can have multiple pictures in a single post.
Soren has a blog/faq on how to do this.
John: Setting up the Apple TV required quite a lot of button pushing with the included remote re entering a complex password to get on the WiFi network, and as it is behind the TV, requires line of sight with the remote which of course works on infra-red. However, once on the network, one can control the Apple TV using the free Apple remote application on both ones iPhone 4S and iPad over the WiFi network, not infra-red - this works extremely well indeed, and whilst having the supplied PUC cables and downloaded the commensurate PUC tables for it from the internet, so as to control via the Beo 4, the iPhone/iPad interface is such that I don't feel the need to change from that at this point in time. It also allows the Apple TV to be hidden away, as infra red is no longer needed, OR you could of course just attach one of the supplied PUC cables/infra-red blasters to it.
Pretty sure I have always just used my Beo4 and its PUC to drive the Apple TV menus including the passwords - both the iTunes and the WiFi passwords
Sooner or later one or both passwords will need an update/reapply because of a software upgrade, power drop, hardware reset, change to iTunes Ts&Cs or whatever.
So get a PUC so you don't have to try to get behind the V1 with the Apple remote when that happens.
Very nice and detailed review. It was pleasure to read.
Beovision Avant 55 / BV 11-40 / BV7-40 / Beovision Avant / Beosound 9000 / Beosound 5 Encore / Beosystem 4500 / Beosystem 6500 / Beocenter 9000 / Beolab 5000 / Beolab 18 / Beolab 19 / Beolab 11 / Beolab 17 / 3 sets of Beolab 4000 / Beovox Red Line 60.2
elephant: Can I upload photos direct from my Mac, or do I have to upload to a third party share service such as Flickr first? You can upload directly one picture to each post via the [Compose|Options|Preview] tabs at the top of the Reply text in gray - just click Options and follow your instinct. My gut instinct is that this leads to space consumption on the Beoworld server if you upload the picture a second time in another thread. Alternatively store on Beoworld server via your profile page and access that via the movie strip icon in the line just above the text reply input area. The disadvantage here is that when the site evolves the pictures can disappear. So some use a larger user base (= safer) service like imageshack or flicker. You still use the movie strip icon to access - but link via copy&paste of urls. Advantage ? you can have multiple pictures in a single post. Soren has a blog/faq on how to do this. John: Setting up the Apple TV required quite a lot of button pushing with the included remote re entering a complex password to get on the WiFi network, and as it is behind the TV, requires line of sight with the remote which of course works on infra-red. However, once on the network, one can control the Apple TV using the free Apple remote application on both ones iPhone 4S and iPad over the WiFi network, not infra-red - this works extremely well indeed, and whilst having the supplied PUC cables and downloaded the commensurate PUC tables for it from the internet, so as to control via the Beo 4, the iPhone/iPad interface is such that I don't feel the need to change from that at this point in time. It also allows the Apple TV to be hidden away, as infra red is no longer needed, OR you could of course just attach one of the supplied PUC cables/infra-red blasters to it. Pretty sure I have always just used my Beo4 and its PUC to drive the Apple TV menus including the passwords - both the iTunes and the WiFi passwords Sooner or later one or both passwords will need an update/reapply because of a software upgrade, power drop, hardware reset, change to iTunes Ts&Cs or whatever. So get a PUC so you don't have to try to get behind the V1 with the Apple remote when that happens.
Hi Elephant
Thank you so much for taking the time to post that very useful information. I've been a MobileMe subcriber, including the Gallery feature, but of course with the move from MobileMe to iCloud and Mountain Lion, Gallery has gone, so I shall investigate opening an account with an third party such as Flickr.
The set came supplied with two PUC cables - more are available from my dealer. I've yet to implement them, but will investigate that in due course.
I'm currently changing around my entire room, moving my separates rack and retiring a number of components, and removing all the cables etc. With a rack at the back of the room, this necessitated long runs of analogue cables up the length of the room to the previous TV up the front. Spaghetti doesn't even begin to describe it, nor the relief I will feel when it's all gone!
Consequently the V1 + cabinet is sitting further forward than where it will eventually be, so I can get reasonable access to the back of it for routing cables etc. Thankfully it's not quite as hard as lying on ones side reaching up to racks placed a few inches in front of a wall!
But yes, once its all finished, the PUC cable will likely be the way to go - I'd also like to cut the remote as well as the box count, down to a much more reasonable number. There's still quite a bit to learn, as much of the B&O way of doing things is foreign to me as a recovering audiophool, but I'm loving the simplicity and functional elegance very much indeed!
Easily one of the best, if not THE best consumer purchase decisions I've made re Audio & AV, in a very long time....
Very Happy...
beopiranha: Very nice and detailed review. It was pleasure to read.
Hi Beopiranha
Thank you very much for your kind remarks.
I'm glad you enjoyed it - it was a bit long perhaps, but I try to be as fair and balanced as possible, and explain my reasoning and thoughts when forming conclusions rather than just making subjective statements and otherwise unsubstantiated claims.
I was initially disheartened after reading about it's 167 ms lag for gaming , but apparently they have a software upgrade in the works that should circumvent that problem.
Sounds very interesting !
If they do , I'd be seriously interested in a beoplay v1-40. Bound to be better built than samdung's junk.
Flappo: I was initially disheartened after reading about it's 167 ms lag for gaming , but apparently they have a software upgrade in the works that should circumvent that problem. Sounds very interesting ! If they do , I'd be seriously interested in a beoplay v1-40. Bound to be better built than samdung's junk.
Sorry to read that your Samsung failed early in it's life. However, that can happen to anything electronic, as a capacitor etc can be slightly out of value when new etc, and will quickly fail - usually if it lasts for a week or two, it will do so for many years until it fails at the end of it's life. Nonetheless it's always disappointing when something new and exciting fails like that, so I do sympathise.
I'm very happy with the V1 and the decision to put money where my thoughts and ideas, and dare I say it, my mouth was, re buying in to the B&O universe by making a tentative first step with the V1 purchase.
By all means, it is not 'perfect' but then neither is anything else, regardless of cost and what the advertising spiel will tell you, - the lag for gaming being but one example. However, I'm not really a gamer, so it's not a make or break issue for me personally.
In the setting up of the unit, there was a software update available for it already, which I've downloaded and installed - I'm not sure if it will fix the input lag though, and indeed with any new product and as software demands change, one can expect software updates - my Billion router for example has had about a 1/2 dozen since new over it's approx 2 year life with me thus far.
I can't comment on the quality of internal components etc, but I'd wager that if built in Denmark as it is, then most likely that will be Siemens etc, and they're usually top quality.r
The finish is superb IMV - far nicer than a glossy plastic finished TV, no matter how stylish IMHO - and I find it incredible VFM re what it costs balanced against what it offers.
Yes, to be fair, I'm biased, I know....lol... but I looked extremely carefully re auditioning and researching comparative price mainstream options, and I'm not disappointed in any way that I didn't buy another Sony, or perhaps moved to Panasonic, given that I'd had an excellent 17 yr run from my previous Sony TV.
If in the hopefully unlikely event this TV should give out in a small plume of smoke, or be stolen (heaven help me!) it would be another B&O that would take it's place without hesitation.
HTH and again, sorry to hear about your Samsung - if you'd be happy with 40" I could heartily recommend the V1 if you like the B&O way of doing things.
New review of V1 on line , usual disparaging remarks by the great uneducated although they do acknowledge the superb picture and sound . Isn't that what really matters on a tv after all ?
http://www.wired.com/reviews/2012/07/bang-olufsen-beoplay-v1/
Damn thats a pretty terrible review from a magazine aimed at the 25+ target market. Certainly the "Bang&Olufsen charging what the hell it likes" is fair cop but a conclusion like this is pretty tearful...
"It’s too bad all this A/V acumen goes to waste on a TV that’s just a disaster in every other respect. The BeoPlay V1 lacks basic features found in every other modern TV. It’s a pain in the ass to control. And it’s priced for rich suckers who just don’t know any better. Thankfully, you do."
We know that it's a lovely piece of design but any young young reading this...
Yes that review is a bit ott. I don't thnk even I've been that rude about bang & explosion.
Must try harder. ;)
Greetings All
One of the aspects of the V1's performance that I didn't discuss in much detail in my original review, was the sound. This was because I'd been most impressed with the sound re the shop demos that I had, and had few if any qualms about that aspect of performance. Moreover, I've enough of the audiophile remaining within me to be careful with new speakers re driving them to high levels; audiophile myth has it that changes can occur over months - a more sensible approach is that taken by B&W who state that with new speakers the temperature effects can take up to a week or so to stabilise out, and the mechanical aspects to take around 15 hours or so of use to settle down - any time longer than that is most likely the listener getting used to the sound rather than any actual changes taking place in the speaker.
Accordingly, over the now almost two weeks I've had the set, I've done some initial music listening to form a basic opinion of the sound, but mostly the unit has just been used for TV viewing, along with movies, for which I am using for the time being, the unit merely as a monitor with the centre channel turned down, and my main system doing surround duties, in phantom mode.
However, I did some in-depth listening two nights ago, almost by accident, and thought I'd report a couple of remarkable things.
As it happened, I had been working on the computer, and was intending to watch a TV program, but with a 1/2 hour to spare, decided I would have another listen to the TV sound, with it's active speaker array, via streaming ALAC files from my computer. Also, as it's been a couple of weeks since the TV arrived, and having had some time for everything to settle, I felt more at ease giving it some ginger on the volume control, albeit to realistic and enjoyable, but not silly levels. Well... the 1/2 hour turned into 8 hours, as I found myself listening to album after album, each one preceded by the thought of "this is quite amazing... how will it do on this track?" and so on. I finally staggered off to bed around 4am quite stunned with what I had been hearing.
In the initial instance when I first made a cursory listen to music, I felt the sound quality to be more or less on par with a Class D, passive Sony Midi system I own; better midrange and treble clarity with the Active B&O, but better bass (weight, volume and extension) with the Sony Midi system. By and large this is mainly true, and both systems exhibit some mild coloration - in the case of the V1, the speakers are at the base of a baffle that is effectively the width and height of an 40"TV, also sitting on cabinet 'shelf' so I can't see how one can easily ameliorate the deleterious acoustic effects this will cause with standing waves and reflections etc.
However, whilst I don't consider it HiFi strictly speaking, similarly to the Sony Midi system, courtesy speakers close together and therefore no proper 2 channel stereo '3d' sound stage and imaging, and accompanied by some mild upper bass coloration, one does very quickly acclimatise to this, and can hear through it for lack of a better description to the music reproduction as against the spatial presentation - two somewhat different things.
There were two remarkable aspects of the sound/music reproduction that I would put down to the active speaker array, that to my huge surprise, exceeded even the capabilities of my main system! I daresay owners of active B&O speakers will recognise some of these music reproduction traits!
Firstly, and most strikingly, was the sheer speed of transient response, and it's effect on musical dynamics, as regards subtle shifts in tempi, such as rubato, emphasis such as sforzando, and the superbly even and graduated shading of pianissimo to fortissimo and everything in between. This made for the most spellbinding involvement in the musical performance; listening to Krystian Zimerman playing Schubert Impromptus D899 & D935 on DGG as an example, revealed the most exquisite dynamic shading as the performer explored every nuance of the music and instrument. Talk about emotional involvement! - I was stunned, this was by far the best rendition of this disc, re dynamic shading, that I've ever heard - it seriously bettered my main system as regards clearly revealing, rather than hinting at, the elements of dynamic shading I've discussed.
Now, I'm a musician, and music lover, not a technician, but with 40 odd years of this hobby behind me, I'd wager that as has been described by Ashley James, the CEO of AVI - a small bespoke manufacturer of active loudspeakers, - the absence of an passive crossover means that not only is their much less distortion and accordingly greater clarity, the fact that there is no passive crossover to progressively disconnect the driver as it goes out of passband, and that the driver remains in full control by the amplifier at all times, is due this remarkable result as regards the systems transient response, and hence it's ability to reproduce the dynamics of music in a stunningly realistic fashion.
In fact, this does remind me of the first time I heard an pair of Naim SBL's (which I own) converted from passive to active operation - there was also a vastly improved sense of clarity, but in particular dynamics, with the change from passive to active operation there as well. I hope you will excuse my attempting to describe what I heard in musical terms - audiophiles would use the terms macro and micro dynamics - but to me musical terms are the only ones that really matter, as the job of the system is to reproduce music as close as possible to the original sound. This effect of enhanced, and more believable/realistic dynamic shading was found across all the musical albums that I listened to over the eight or so hours were I was attempting - to use that hackneyed phrase once again - to prise my jaw up of the floor.
The second aspect of the sound I'd like to report/discuss, involved clarity with respect to resolution.
One of the great pleasures of listening to acoustic music, is the subtle differences in timbre, that make an instrument what it is, with respect to its distinct tonal signature. Hence, there is no 'generic' piano sound; a Steinway sounds very different from a Bosendorfer for example. I am a huge Pipe Organ fan, and again there is no generic organ sound; a Baroque Silberman sounds vastly different to a romantic Cavaille-Coll, or a large William Hill & Son English Cathedral organ. Within organ playing, and on a specific instrument, the tonal colour, or timbre, also varies by use of registration stops, or pipe ranks, that markedly vary the timbre or 'tone' of the instrument.
Taking the Dorian recording of "The Great Organ of Saint Eustache, Paris" with Jean Guillou, and Organ symphony #5, by Widor, as an example. This is one of my favourite organ recordings, and there, plainly to be heard, were aspects of the playing as regards the aforementioned changes in registration and with it the tonal timbre of the instrument, that the active speaker array revealed clearly, in a manner that by contrast my main system merely 'hints at' for lack of a better description, and indeed the active speaker array clearly bettered it. And this is my main system v's an active array in a TV!!
Again, across all the various albums I listened to that evening and into the early hours of the morning, there was a noticeable improvement as regards resolution and clarity that the active speaker array brought over what I hear from my main system - the most noticeable of which was a much more believable rendition of instrumental and vocal timbre, and importantly the breadth of tonal colour across instruments and voice, or if you will, distinctions or shading of timbre.
It's pretty clear to me, that again the technical advantages of active drive, removing the power sapping and distortion inducing passive crossover results in much greater resolution and with it greater clarity, which again reflects in things that are musically important, such as the subtle shading of timbre of both instruments and vocals.
I could also add further examples of the increased resolution and resultant clarity, such as pipe chiff on organ, hearing the sound of the hammers as well as the notes in the close miked Schubert, the sound of snare, tom toms, cymbals, and string bass on "The Best of Play Bach" on Telarc, with the Jacques Loussier Trio.
Particularly striking on the Hyperion Sampler, Hyperions Curls, the exquisite rendering of "I waited for the Lord" by Mendelssohn, where the recording is actually in a large cathedral, and sung by choir and two boy sopranos in a duet. Here, only the very best passive systems that I have heard (including my own) can just hint at separating out the two boy sopranos singing together, into two separate voices and two separate acoustics.
Its a difficult act, as the boys voices are so seemingly similar, and in real life as one assumes it would be recorded, opposite each other in the choir stalls. Now, as I wasn't present at the recording, I can't tell you whether that was how it was in real life, or that it was engineered into the recording.
What I can tell you, is that most systems make it sound like one boy, singing in the same space. The better (and indeed the very finest systems I've heard on this recording, including some very expensive and big Naims) will reveal the two boy sopranos singing opposite each other, and with different timbral signatures as would be expected in real life. As the systems job is to reproduce the original recording as faithfully as possible, I would say this is how it was meant to be.
The amazing and absolutely draw dropping thing is, the active array in my B&O TV, reveals the spatial separation and timbral distinction as mentioned, better than any passive system I've heard - including my own - I really can't give it any higher musical praise than that.
Putting aside these two main and rather outstanding features, which I put down to the active drive, namely resolution/clarity and transient response, one has to balance that against the lack of stereo separation and slight coloration mentioned. In presentation terms, it's a no brainer - the big system wins - stereo sound-field and sound-staging/image placement; bass weight, extension and power. But for musical detail, and involvement/believability, I find the active array as enjoyable, if not more so.
I'm pretty shocked, as I was not expecting this kind of result. All I can say, is that I can't wait to put some active speakers with it; in it's intended role as a centre channel speaker, it will do extremely well - that it can also play loud and clear, with outstanding dynamics, reassures me that it will easily comply with Dolby specs re a centre channel being able to reach 105db on peaks with great aplomb.
To my mind, an evenings listen and the results noted vis a vis comparison with my own high end passive, main system, vindicates the active approach to system building completely, and will be the only avenue that I will pursue for further system building.
I'd also add, that B&O can build this kind of audio performance, with a musical satisfaction quotient that is exceptionally high, speaking as a classical musician, is a simply stunning achievement, and I offer my congratulations to B&O and the development team.
That it is also available in conjunction with the other features, and for the price, is a stunning commercial, technical and artistic achievement IMHO.
Well done B&O and Bravo!
Thanks again for listening..
Kind regards John...
John thank you so much for this review -- and all your other weighty posts -- they are a joy to read, and I always pause my Beoworld browse when I get to them and defer to read to a quiet time so I can absorb the content.
So many many thanks.
And in particular on this post for including listings of the recordings that you find special.
Every so often a "best recordings for listening pleasure" thread springs up on Beoworld -- and I use those posts to broaden my understanding and appreciation of music.
So if you feel up to it, I for one, would value your insights into the best of the best of your collection.
And once again a genuine deep Thank You.
Well done John. Your enthusiasm shines. Creatively written from the soul with an intelligent tone.
Flappo: New review of V1 on line , usual disparaging remarks by the great uneducated although they do acknowledge the superb picture and sound . Isn't that what really matters on a tv after all ? http://www.wired.com/reviews/2012/07/bang-olufsen-beoplay-v1/
I can´t take that kind of reviews seriously no matter what they review. The reviewer has already made up her/his mind from the very start about the product. I´ve seen it countless of times in reviews about cars, motorbikes, electronics etc.
I think that buyers of more expensive gears looks for reviews elsewhere than in this kind of magazines. The reviewer of this article pointed out from the very start how expensive the V1 is in the most exaggerating way before he continued to write down the product. Let´s face it, the Bang Olufsen remotes has always been easy to operate. The Beo4 is no exception from that legacy. The reviewer does not exactly review the product in my opinion.
And John, thank you again for more nice opinions about your new buy. Will most likely join you within a couple of weeks.
I agree Hubbe. It was harsh and a lot of what he criticised that it didnt have, an Apple TV box would sort that out! Also, who talks about 3D now? I don't know of one guy who got excited over 3D.
Again, I think the Beo4 is the best designed remote that has ever existed before we started using our iPhones to control everything.
A rather harmful review but at least it did point out the excellent picture and sound quality!
My thought exactly. The earlier Beolink remotes where Apple of yesterday before iPod and iPhones came and took over and showed how we could operate advanced things in a simple way.
Hopefully the readers will se whats important in the review and that is that the picture and sound is very good. And they can pick up more information in another reviews around the net that are more balanced.
I´ve seen Avatar in 3D and a couple of other movies. However impressive some of them where I don´t think that 3D really is necessary making a movie better, just a different experance. Not one of my friends care about the 3D experiance at home watching a film. It´s something Hollywood should be concerned about. Maybe they should go back and look what makes a really good movie. Maybe they can ditch some of their special effects while they are at it and put more effort to tell a good story.
Totally agree with you Hubbe. In fact if I mention Blu ray or DVDs to friends either at my radio stations or at the gym, my friends look at me as if to say 'what are those?' - for them it's all download, download, download. I guess that we did it at the end of the 80s with pirate videos, but it is quite cool when they have a download of a film that's at the cinema! Although watching films on a laptop still seems a little bizarre for me! Mind you, because of my travelling, mot of my film watching is now spent using my iPhone!!! Six hour journeys nearly everyday is quite tiring!
Beovision 11-55, BeoPlay V1 40, Beosound 9000, Beolab 8000's and 3 Beocom 5's...
elephant: John thank you so much for this review -- and all your other weighty posts -- they are a joy to read, and I always pause my Beoworld browse when I get to them and defer to read to a quiet time so I can absorb the content. So many many thanks. And in particular on this post for including listings of the recordings that you find special. Every so often a "best recordings for listening pleasure" thread springs up on Beoworld -- and I use those posts to broaden my understanding and appreciation of music. So if you feel up to it, I for one, would value your insights into the best of the best of your collection. And once again a genuine deep Thank You.
Elephant, may I thank you once again, for your most kind words.
It actually means a lot - in the past I've been strongly and rudely criticised elsewhere for making such in-depth and lengthy posts!
I'm not a professional writer, in that I haven't studied journalism or creative writing, nor do I get paid for it, nonetheless I am an avid writer about things of which I am passionate, music and AV being one of those things, and do enjoy sharing my thoughts and experiences amongst friends on same.
It's probably fair to say that as a newcomer to B&O, I'm in the flush of the honeymoon moment, however I've also appreciated B&O over many years, and have really only not bought in to B&O previously because a) I already had 'good' kit and had no pressing need to change; and b) certainly whilst a paid up member of the Naim 'PRaT' club, thought B&O of excellent design and quality but not really 'up' with audiophile kit on sonic grounds for lack of a better description.
However, because I became, through my Naim 'road to Damascus' conversion to ES Sony, particularly aware and disenchanted by all the high end audiophile foo, pseudo science, extreme marketing hype and snob sell, I had good reason to do a complete re-evalution of the whole hobby as to how it applied to, and benefited my life.
I realised that I had allowed my musical training and experiences, to become sublimated to this HiFi subjectivism that permeated the industry at the time I first got seriously involved with it, re my Naim purchase, and had 'bought into' the whole subjectivist argument that went with it re the whole Flat Earth 'PRaT' philosophy that more or less ruled at the time - certainly in the UK HiFi 'scene'.
Being somewhat of a perfectionist, I also realised how obsessive the whole hobby had become for me, and that musical enjoyment, whilst supposedly the whoe raison de etre for owning a system, had given way to endless tweaking and 'upgrades' to try and better the sound. In short, I had become an audiophool.
The purchase of Sony ES as an add on to my then Naim system for AV purposes, really opened my eyes wide as to the disingenuous nature of the whole high end HIfi scene, and it was the beginning of the end of that whole audiophool experience for me - thank goodness!
It was also the time I really moved away from that whole subjectivist viewpoint propagated in the UK scene by Linn and Naim, and upheld by British HiFi media, and to a much more objectivist stance, which is where I stand today.
It was also when I started to read the published papers of proper tertiary trained academics in the industry with unimpeachable qualifications, such as Dr. Floyd Toole, and Dr Sean Olive, both of Harmon International, and some of the early blogs of Dr. Geoff Martin, and also various published papers by the AES, rather than the statements of entrepreneurial but otherwise tertiary untrained amateur enthusiasts, such as Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn or the late Julien Vereker of Naim. Despite being very bright, and very astute and clever business people, to the best of my knowledge, neither of these industry stalwarts of the whole subjectivist platform of High End HiFi marketing, had any formal engineering or technical training whatsoever - yet their opinions were lauded as the Golden Eared 'experts.
It was also when I started reading about the history of B&O, their almost unparalleled R&D into audio, especially as regards speakers, rooms and psycho-acoustics, the development of active speaker technology throughout the range, and their totally science lead approach to audio design and acoustics.
Coming back to your comments upon my writing, and my sincere appreciation of same, as a 'reformed' audiophool, it gives me the greatest of pleasure to write about B&O, for I firmly believe that within the broader HiFi 'scene' they are one of the most undervalued and underestimated companies going in terms of their technical abilities.
It has to be said, it does disappoint me sometimes to read here of comments about them being to expensive, or lacking the latest feature as if one should expect a product to be a swiss army knife for the modern age, or that they should somehow provide a Rolls Royce ownership experience, at a Toyota price, when if you had the sorts of experiences with the hair shirt, 'emperors new clothes' syndrome, high end audio scene of which I and others have unfortunately experienced, you'd perhaps realise that B&O sit at the highest level as regards R&D, science, sonic and technical abilities, and whilst not cheap, actually represent superb VFM most especially as regards their loudspeakers.
As such, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to write about them, and to attempt to re-dress the balance somewhat!
Thank you again most sincerely for your most kind and thoughtful comments
Paul W: Well done John. Your enthusiasm shines. Creatively written from the soul with an intelligent tone.
Thank you Paul - that's a lovely comment and very nice of you to express!
Really, I do hope that you can renew your B&O ownership experience soon.
I realise that money doesn't grow on trees, and that B&O is not cheap but sincerely, if you'd experienced what I and several others have experienced re the whole disingenuous high end HiFi scene, you'd perhaps appreciate B&O a lot more - its more than just a pretty face re the design - the technology as regards sound and acoustics is cutting edge.