ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hey Forum
I’m a proud owner of 2 Beolab 5. Regarding the sound quality I’m very pleased with them, but I’m still struggling with the best setup.
For my ears the best was to feed them, is the digital input. And I like the idea of having an all-digital signal path straight to the loudspeakers, without any unnecessary D-A-D… conversions.
Since there is still no solution to use the digital input with original B&O equipment (without CD as source or the “having a CD in the Beosound running, while the beolabs get the digital signal from another digital source” - workaround), I’m using them in the Opt. 1 for the non B&O equipment use. So I control the volume with the beolab 5.
This works fine, as long as you don’t want to have surround setup.
My priority is definitely stereo listening, but I also want to enjoy my homecinema.
Therefore I use an av-preamp connected to the analog in of the bl5 (and via trigger cables to a beolab 10 center and 2 beolab 8000 as rears). In this case I control the volume with the av-preamp.
My problem is now, a total mismatch of the volume from the fixed digital signal, to the volume controlled analog signal. The analog is very quiet compared to the digital in (which is clear, since the bl’s are expecting a fixed line level). So I have to set the starting volume of the bl’s very high, to get the same volume as the other speakers in the system.
So when I want to listen to music digitally, and forget to turn the volume down before starting the music (or when some of the digital connected device starts playing for some reason during a video session), it’s always close to get an heart attack.
My wish would be:
Getting a software update for the beolab 5 with the following behavior when opt 1 is set:
Pressing “Radio” on the remote will turn the Beolab’s on and activate the analog input.
Pressing “CD” (for example) on the remote will turn the Beolab’s on and activates the digital input.
And an individually startup volume setting for each of this inputs (to which it always jumps, when I change the input).
So a direct source select with separate volume settings.
It would be possible then to listen to music digitally, control the volume with the beolab’s. and when I want to change to the surround setup, just pressing “Radio” and it would change the input to analog and the volume would be automatically the same as the other speakers.
Ahhhh, I dream of it J
This would not be a major change in the software, but make the handling, the flexibility and the future safety of the Beolab 5 a lot better.
What do you think about it? Anyone having the same issues? Or a solution (without workaround, I don’t want to have a workaround I a system in this class)?
Does someone thinks they will support the Beolab 5 with updates in the future?
Sorry for the long post, and best regards
Mike
and connect the output to the aux in of a beosound?
or how is your complete system?
regards
Nah that wont help, due to the DSP inside beolab 5 the speaker will convert the analog signal from the Meridian dac to digital again and then convert to analog.
To get the best sound from your BL5 is to feed them with a good digital signal. The dac inside the 5 is still good in my opinion. I cant complain with the sound.
this is exactly my opinion. the dac in the beolab 5 works perfect :-)
using a second external dac never can improve the signal quality....
I don't want to do all these unnecessary conversions.
so I really want to feed them with a digital signal, for music listening. the speaker is perfect in my eyes, but the usability could be better nowadays...
in 2003, the best and most common digital source (I guess) was the cd. and at that time, the software configuration of the source selection was ok. but today, I would wish for a different behavior of the software.... than it would say, it's pretty flexible for the most of the future setups and up to date again..
Hallo Mike This does not change you must change option, but lets you stream digital audio to BeoLab 5.
Mike:and connect the output to the aux in of a beosound? or how is your complete system? regards Mike
Wilderwein:Nah that wont help, due to the DSP inside beolab 5 the speaker will convert the analog signal from the Meridian dac to digital again and then convert to analog. To get the best sound from your BL5 is to feed them with a good digital signal. The dac inside the 5 is still good in my opinion. I cant complain with the sound.
Barry Santini: I dont think the BL 5 converts the analogue to Digital and back to analogue. Please confirm
I dont think the BL 5 converts the analogue to Digital and back to analogue.
Please confirm
it most certainly does!
The internal DSP requires a digital signal in order to start working its filtering magic!
And that is why it is paramount to maintain the original digital signal all the way to the Beolab 5 DAC which also handles the volume control.
If you use the Powerlink connection the signal will already have been converted from digital to analog in the CD player, and once it reaches a newer Beosystem/Beovison it will again be converted to a digital signal, processed and then converted back to analog before being sent out as an attenuated analog signal!
The really bizarre part is,- since the BS3 NO B&O system will support the Beolab 5 in the digital mode, although it is still being sold and frequently featured in sales adds showing setups with current products.
I would be pretty disappointed if I tried to pair up a set of 5s with an Avant 55 or BS 4...
The big question - though - is, whether you will hear any difference in the real world.
Some are convinced that they can - others question that.
Personally I think, that the differences in the quality of the files/recordings are what matters most.
The DSP of the 5's is made to give an excellent reproduction of any signal, that comes in.
If I had to choose between the convenience of having the 5's connected to my system for all sources!! - or just for playing back, what can be sourced via the SPDIF-in, I'd choose the first.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen:The big question - though - is, whether you will hear any difference in the real world.
When I read this thread earlier this morning, I was wondering the same thing. Would the average person be able to discern the difference?
Sal: Millemissen:The big question - though - is, whether you will hear any difference in the real world. When I read this thread earlier this morning, I was wondering the same thing. Would the average person be able to discern the difference?
Yes ! The noise floor alone will let you know!
I am inclined to say, with all due respect, that if you can't tell the difference in this particular case: BL5 all digital vs Powerlink triple conversion, The BL5 is properly in the wrong neighbourhood!
From memory, I believe the BL5 kicks in from 5hz (yes 5 !), which is way below what Powerlink can deliver!
As said before would you run a Bugatti Veyron on winter tires on a race track?
BEOVOX141:I am inclined to say, with all due respect, that if you can't tell the difference in this particular case: BL5 all digital vs Powerlink triple conversion, The BL5 is properly in the wrong neighbourhood!
You're probably right. Since I've never had the opportunity to listen to a pair of 5's using different input methods, I can't say that even my ears wouldn't be able to tell a difference. Though I have to say: if I had a pair of BL5's solely to listen to music, I'd want them connected in the best way possible to the source.
I'm running a pair of BL20s connected to an Essence MkII via powerlink cables. Is there a better way to have them connected? Should I look into another source for the 20s? Or would it not even matter for the BL20s because they're lower end than the 5s?
Yes, the famous noice floor - knowing the noice floor of most available recordings, that would not bother me much.
But your theory is good ;-)
In general - you don't have to go to the races to enjoy the BL5's.
And I wonder which recordings 'kicks in at 5 kHz' - not many of those, that I listen too anyway.
But - do enjoy 'your' (?) BL5's your way - let others enjoy them theirs.
BEOVOX141:it most certainly does! The internal DSP requires a digital signal in order to start working its filtering magic! And that is why it is paramount to maintain the original digital signal all the way to the Beolab 5 DAC which also handles the volume control. If you use the Powerlink connection the signal will already have been converted from digital to analog in the CD player, and once it reaches a newer Beosystem/Beovison it will again be converted to a digital signal, processed and then converted back to analog before being sent out as an attenuated analog signal! The really bizarre part is,- since the BS3 NO B&O system will support the Beolab 5 in the digital mode, although it is still being sold and frequently featured in sales adds showing setups with current products. I would be pretty disappointed if I tried to pair up a set of 5s with an Avant 55 or BS 4...
With Bang & Olufsen BeoSystem 4 without SPDIF out, is the amazing BeoLab 5been let down. No B&O launched today can live up to what BeoLab 5 deserve.Can not you hear the difference between analog and digital input, then buy BeoPlay.It will be OK for you.
A pretty amazing logic ;-(
On the other side - it will be pretty hard to use a set of the VL5's as headphones or take them with you, when you travel....
....which - after all - is what B&O Play products are intended for.
Sorry Peter Pan - should have been 'a set of the BL5's' in the above post.
Sorry - Millemissen That's it is.
@Millermissen
So let me ask you this?
Sal asked if there was a better way of connecting the BL20. Would it be worthwhile using the digital WISA interface rather than Powerlink from Essence MKII?
Or does the same logic apply here? I.e you properly can't tell the diifernce anyway ?
..and if so, why would B&O bother with anything else than Powerlink?
i don't wanted to start a gereral discussion about that....
i first tried the analog solution (beosound and RCA in...), and then just for my interrest, i tryed the spdif Input. And for me it sounds definitley better.
i hear the differnece. maybe this is because the not so good dac in my source, or whatever... i don't want to think about that, because i have a perfect dac in my BL5, which i want to use.
and i'm a kind of perfectionist... this is the reason why i purchased the beolab 5. and now i want to use them in the best way.
@Peter Pan and Beovox141: i totally agree with your opinions :-)
even the Manual says (something like): "to get the best Performance, use the spdif Connection to the beosound".
@Peter Pan: your solution in your first post --> this is basically what i currently do, for Stereo listening (with different sources, but in principle). but i'm missing a solution for surround listening.... B&O or nonB&O
I'm a bit dissapointed that there is no soution without Workaround (without decreasing the Sound quality).
and just to discribe the difference:
with the analog in, i can't really say: listen to this tone, it sounds completley different... but my ears get tired very early and i can't really enjoy the musik anymore (when i do active listening). and when i push the volume, it gets unpleasant earlier.
i don't have this ear fatigue, when i'm listening digital directly, and can listen much louder, for hours :-)
br
Hallo MikeYou describe the same difference as I hear digital/analog audio.________________________________________________ Be glad on your headphones Millemissen.
Hi all
I have a set of BL 5 as well. I have tried several setups and ended with a digital input - SPDIF
I did some A/B test - PowerLink versus SPDIF - and even though my ears now are 55 years old, I can hear the difference. I hear much more open sound picture, better control of the bass and more dynamic when playing loud.
I do understand the technical part, as I am engineer (and have actually in my younger days been a part of development at B&O) but I am not sure this is a matter of technical issues but more your ears and what you prefer.
Like wine, can you measure in terms of techical maesures why A wine taste better than B wine - to my mind this is again what you prefer - and we are for sure not the same all of us.
Try some different setups and make a decision - because it is all about spending time listen to music more than talking about music ;-)
Best regards Rudi
Hi Rudi
As i wrote: i don't want to Start a general discussion about which Input to use... And it was not the question.
I have made my decision:
i want to use digital in for Stereo listening and analog in for Surround.
i just can't get a pleasureable setup for both... As the reasons i described in the opening post.
Therefore i'm asking for the best Setup for this. Do you use your BL5s also in a Surround Setup?
and when yes: how?
best regards
mike
Mike: i just can't get a pleasureable setup for both... As the reasons i described in the opening post. Therefore i'm asking for the best Setup for this. Do you use your BL5s also in a Surround Setup? and when yes: how? best regards mike
I know of no way to do that - unless you want to do some constant rewiring.
And that is the reason why I wrote in my post above:
'If I had to choose between the convenience of having the 5's connected to my system for all sources!! - or just for playing back, what can be sourced via the SPDIF-in, I'd choose the first.'
Selfishly... am I preventing a better sound by running my BL20s using power link cables from the Essence MkII? Should I, as BEOVOX asked, be using WISA (of course that'd mean I'd need a Transmitter 1, which uses PL from the Essence, which would defeat the purpose, right?), and if for the 20s WISA is the way to go, then the only choice is the Moment, which at this point I won't buy, so I maybe I'm caught between a rock and a hard place -- unless I look into a music source from a non B&O manufacturer and connect using SPDIF from a non-B&O unit's back panel into the 20s.
Mike: As i wrote: i don't want to Start a general discussion about which Input to use... And it was not the question.
If you just mention "digital/analogue signal", or "CD/vinyl", or "uncompressed/compressed audio", this will automatically lead to a general discussion, but it is always funny - so, please - keep on.....:)
Mike: i want to use digital in for Stereo listening and analog in for Surround. i just can't get a pleasureable setup for both... As the reasons i described in the opening post. Therefore i'm asking for the best Setup for this. Do you use your BL5s also in a Surround Setup? and when yes: how?
You`ve got a pretty nice Beolab setup - unfortunately you don`t use it properly - sorry.
A Beosolution is possible, ofcourse. Sell our AAV preamp, ger a Beosystem 3, connect all BLs to S3 Powerlink and set them correctly in the speakers menu. Get a BM7000 with BGCD7000, connect it via BL converter and Masterlink cable to your BS3 (which is now your AV preamp, you just have to add a panel to get a working BV, btw). Now connect the spdif out of the BGCD7000 directly to your BL5s. BGCD7000 is the best sounding CD player/digital musik source made by Beo, I`ve tested - I used CD7000, BS9000MKIII, and BS5 - BTW, you never mentioned your dgital music player, or did I miss something?
With this setup you will get everything you want (if you set up your front speakers to BL5 in the speakers menu, they will also sound fantastic via Powerlink, but you will still hear the difference). Even the digital/analogue volume level mismatch (what a word...!) will be gone.
If you want add more (stereo) digital non-Beo music sources I`d try to insert a 1177 digital-audio switch made by Audio Authority.
And one more: my experience with this speaker setup is: sounds fantastic, especially the BL10 is the best center speaker I ever heard, so much better than the 7.4 - that`s crazy! ...but the bass in movie 5.1 mode tend to be a bit "front-ended" ... My solution was to add a BL2 to the rear left/right.
Rudi Pedersen: Like wine, can you measure in terms of techical maesures why A wine taste better than B wine - to my mind this is again what you prefer - and we are for sure not the same all of us. Try some different setups and make a decision - because it is all about spending time listen to music more than talking about music ;-) Best regards Rudi
Sal
/ Peter Pan
@ Stefan... Not so fast!
Although I totally agree with your line-up (perhaps because it pretty much reflects mine....) You are still challenged (The original question) if you want the BL5 to run all digital when watching movies or are trying to play anything above 88.2 kHz,- that is only achievable with the addition of an HTPC. Which incidentally takes care of the lack of DTS HD MA decoding in the BS3 as well...
In a way, it is highly ironic that the BL5 always shows up in a television setup.
As to the listening to music part,- of course, that is why we never stop pursuing the best possible experience.
Hi Stefan
thank you for that suggestion. give me some minutes... i have to think about that.
i didn't mentioned my digital Music Player deliberately --> not to start another General discussion :-)
but it's a nonB&O source which streams Audiofiles from a NAS or from the Internet (tryed to avoid every "Keyword" :-) ), and maybe some other in the future.
a question to your solution: when i want to listen to a digital source which is not a CD, i have to activate CD to open the spdif Input of the BL5. then i guess the BGCD7000 runs the CD all the time unnecesary, while the Signal comes from a different Player? is this correct?
I'm not listening to CDs often...
regarding the mentioned digital Audio Switch: guess whats on the Mailing route to me ;-)
and yesssss, the beolab 10 is a very great Center speaker. i love it too.
and adding a BL2 to the rears: i will think about that... i have a BL2 left anyway (from my previous Setup BL8000/BL2), which is workless since i have the BL5s and stands unplugged next to them :-D
@Beovox141: for movie watching analog will be ok, than you are not depending on the fast Change of Standards. and Sound is not that important as it is in Stereo listening
regards and enjoy your wines :-)
cheers
BEOVOX141: @ Stefan... Not so fast!
I don`t think I was fast - in two days nobody recommended this (standard?) Beosolution....
BEOVOX141: Although I totally agree with your line-up (perhaps because it pretty much reflects mine....) You are still challenged (The original question) if you want the BL5 to run all digital when watching movies or are trying to play anything above 88.2 kHz,- that is only achievable with the addition of an HTPC. Which incidentally takes care of the lack of DTS HD MA decoding in the BS3 as well...
As I understood it, the op wanted digital stereo and analog DD5.1..
BEOVOX141: In a way, it is highly ironic that the BL5 always shows up in a television setup.
??? could you explain a bit ???
Tusind tak
Stefan
Mike: but it's a nonB&O source which streams Audiofiles from a NAS or from the Internet (tryed to avoid every "Keyword" :-) ), and maybe some other in the future. a question to your solution: when i want to listen to a digital source which is not a CD, i have to activate CD to open the spdif Input of the BL5. then i guess the BGCD7000 runs the CD all the time unnecesary, while the Signal comes from a different Player? is this correct? I'm not listening to CDs often...
I think, you can use a Beomaster (BM7000,6500, 4500,3500....) without connecting a BGCD. BS3 and BL5 will detect the source as CD.
If your NAS also got an analog outut, you can connect this one to the BM CD socket to distribute music via Masterlink.
And if your NAS can be controled via IR, you could do that with a Beo4/5/6 by connecting a Lintronic box to the CD datalink wire.
Mike: regards and enjoy your wines :-) cheers Mike
Danke - thanks
@ Hi Stefan.
I actually hinted at Beosystem 3 in one of my first post in this thread, a very capable piece of AV engine!
You wrote : ??? could you explain a bit ???
Despite being developed almost 15 years ago the Beolab 5 is still a very capable speaker, most likely never to be matched by the company!
I know the.... the 90,- another day
It is great because it was allowed to have volume, power, and great drivers! And the Analog Devices Sharc DSP was state of the art at the time of its conception. But back then the prevailing digital source was the CD and you ended up with the somewhat peculiar connection arrangement, and even though the volume control DAC was implemented in the exact right location, it only works in the digital mode...
Since then, the Bluray arrived, and with Bluray,- Multichannel HD Audio, which in many cases actually supersedes most conventional digital music sources. Not only quality wise,- but especially when it comes to the extreme dynamic range,- movies!
And as one of the few speakers around, the 5 not only copes,- it freaking shines across the audible spectrum, and delivers the LFE punch with precision and ease!
That is.... If its feed through the digital input! The Powerlink simply wasn't designed for this, every single time you attenuate the analog signal by 6db you lose 1 of the 16 bits of resolution! Which you will do, since the volume control is kicking in before the Powerlink output!
The architecture of the 5 is so special that you would expect B&O to support it, but no! Even though it's presented with the TV lineup and you might expect the digital TV audio engine to just be sitting there eagerly revving up ready to release its pristine digital content, you will forever be looking for those digital out connectors.... you do of course have 8 Powerlink,- what an unforgivable oversight (at best).
And to top it off, the newer Beosystem 4 doesn't even support the audio (CD) part anymore. For real? This is a 10000$ speaker without any support for its native technology from the company that proudly built it and still today publicly acknowledges its digital qualities?
I would still recommend the 5 any day and the Beosytem 3 for that matter, but both will need some serious counseling from Mr. Intel in order to work together in the best possible way.
...To your previous post,- I was awestruck by the Beolap 10 too! The perfect center!
Sal:Selfishly... am I preventing a better sound by running my BL20s using power link cables from the Essence MkII? Should I, as BEOVOX asked, be using WISA (of course that'd mean I'd need a Transmitter 1, which uses PL from the Essence, which would defeat the purpose, right?), and if for the 20s WISA is the way to go, then the only choice is the Moment, which at this point I won't buy, so I maybe I'm caught between a rock and a hard place -- unless I look into a music source from a non B&O manufacturer and connect using SPDIF from a non-B&O unit's back panel into the 20s.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Bang & Olufsen must save. So B&O customers is held in an analog B&O ecosystem.We know a S/PDIF signal all the way to the speaker's DSP provides the best sound.You have optical in on the latest BeoLab speakers. But nothing BeoVision TV can even provide a Optical/ Coax audio output stereo signal.
@Stefan: ok, think i got it. but when i tell someone why there is a beomaster in my System (just for opening the spdif...)... ahhhh. it's a shame...
but i think it would be a solution for me too.
@beovox141: again, i totally agree with you.
my concern with the beosystem 3 is: it's not really future safe. once you want to have something new, the whole Problem will start again.
what i like on the nonB&O solution is --> i simply can change my stuff around the BLs, the av preamp for example, and every thing would still work... (and i don't worry about the handling --> i'm using a harmony ultimate remote. which is much, much, much,... more flexible and does it's Job perfect. only in the Hand, it's just a unstylish Piece of plastic. but thats a different discussion)
this is why i would wish for that Software Change i mentioned in the first post... then the BL5s would be very future safe at least with nonB&O products...
regarding the 90: this is what the Support recommended... with them, the behaviour is like i'd expact from the 5s... not really an Option for me.
mike - then the BL5s would be very future safe at least with nonB&O products.The partnership with LG provides perhaps a solution to the. ??See post by Lars Ladingkaer - Sat, 23 jul 2016 01:29http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/20012.aspx?PageIndex=29