ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
so these are some observations
Revenue up 12% overall. Play revenue up 58%, traditional B&O revenue down 5%. Play is massively important for the future of the business now representing 37% of total sales
The business still made a loss before interest and tax but this was significantly reduced at DKK 69 million compared with DKK 323 million last year. (These numbers ignore ICE and auto which aren't part of the on-going business.) This is a massive step forwards but clearly the job is not finished.
69 stores closed and 29 opened.
For the future the LG partnership is heavily referenced from both a technological point of view and cost efficiencies. Interestingly they also state that they will be "aggressively expanding distribution (of Play) especially in the US"
TV revenues are now 32% of the total compared with 47% last year. Whilst some of this is explained by the increase in Play it is still a very real fall in TV sales and not something that I think the BV14 is going to address.
Speaker revenues increased 26% which is credited largely to the BL90. They must be selling a lot of those beautiful babies!
There seemed to be an awful lot of negative entries in the balance sheet which would worry me, but then I'm not a financial guy!!
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: There seemed to be an awful lot of negative entries in the balance sheet which would worry me, but then I'm not a financial guy!!
Which ones worry you Puncher? I'm here to put your mind at rest.
Duels: Puncher: There seemed to be an awful lot of negative entries in the balance sheet which would worry me, but then I'm not a financial guy!! Which ones worry you Puncher? I'm here to put your mind at rest.
Well the headline figures have reduced (albeit still negative) but there seem to be more negative figures in this years column (particularly cashflow). I expected that the recent sell-off would have had a bigger effect.
As I said, I'm not a financial bod!
Yes the earnings numbers are still negative but much much improved over last year and if that trend continues we should see profit next year.
As for the cash the overall movement was down but half of that was paying off loans so that's OK by me. The rest is effectively an excess of development expenditure over and above what they generated from operations. Long term that's not sustainable but if the business can move back to profit then things should get more sustainable. There is about DKK 800 million cash in the business at the end of the year so no short or medium term cash worries.
The financial shape of the business is much better than it was a few years ago. Tue got that right.
Right now....cashflow is everything
Sound systems (i.e. moment and essence) now account for just 3% of total revenues. That's tiny! It does reflect changing listening habits I guess but what is driving all the speakers they sell? TVs and older B&O kit?
sell 1000 "essence", you get no half million, BUT sell 1000 "essence" and 2000 beolab xx, you get a lot of money.
I think, the beosounds and tv's are needed to sell the quite expensive speakers
I am very sure I will not buy a B&O "sound system" again. My Beolab 5s are now driven by a 35$ Google Chromecast Audio. It feeds my speakers digitally through an equally small optical to coax converter (20$). With this setup I can cast audio files up to 24bit/96Khz from my NAS or stream from Spotify and control everything from any device. In the five years I owned BL5s this is by far the setup I like the most. B&O abandoned us "spdif" users years ago, so I stopped looking for B&O sound systems already then.
I believe there is absolutely no chance for B&O in the "sound system" area. "Sound system" as a term is obsolete. Now we have small black boxes and apps to control what audio to send through. And Google gives them away almost for free. If B&O offers something similar with good NL integration, digital out and powerlink data signal to trigger the BL5s digital input, I may buy into that, but I do not consider it a "sound system" and it should not be priced as such.
In the future I can see myself upgrade, replace and add B&O speakers ( and add more Chromecasts for multiroom). Maybe I will buy a Horizon for the bedroom. And maybe if a stand alone Beosystem 5 ever comes ( With hdmi 2 out ) I will upgrade my BV12NG - the last B&O TV with Cinema capabilities. But I am afraid this is not going to happen, so the BV12 could be my last main TV. I still love this TV, so I believe I can live with it for years to come.
I bought some Play products and I will probably add more.
I believe B&O has a future. Keep making fantastic speakers, develop Play further and stop making a premium TV as a single box that misses this or that already at its introduction. Instead make a TV platform with separate Beosystem box, monitor and choice of speakers. All this with upgrade paths and an affordable Horizon below that. I don't mind if it is made in Poland or where ever. The fact that the Horizon is NL, offers wisa and features "surround" processor makes it an excellent proposition in my book. Both as a primary and secondary TV.
kimchr:I believe there is absolutely no chance for B&O in the "sound system" area. "Sound system" as a term is obsolete.
Totally agree with you Bang&olufsen should stop embarrassing their brand with new sound system totally unnecessary when you have smart phone tablet etc!!!!
kimchr:The fact that the Horizon is NL, offers wisa and features "surround" processor makes it an excellent proposition in my book. Both as a primary and secondary TV.
BeoNut since '75
elephant:Completely agree with you even if I probably won't buy it. We/ they need a flexible entry level platform with some sizzle that can grow a consumer into a prosumer into an evangelist. BeoNut since '75
It's very closed on BeoWorld with guys over 40 wondering why B&O is not selling millions of £5000 loud speakers. It's an argument that has appeared time and time and time again for the last six plus years. B&O needs PLAY more than ever.
It is vital to understand today's and tomorrow's culture and that is the MILLENNIAL age group. As I stated FIVE years ago, they are more interested in travelling, travelling, travelling, seeing the world, doing things, getting an experience from Mother Nature rather than buying a £5K TV or stationary HiFi system - that's alien to them.
Have a red of the FT here and you will 100% understand how the world has truly changed and how spending or indeed lack of it has changed people's perceptions. You will then understand how the modern world is evolving...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/94e97eee-ce9a-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377.html#axzz4Hy8BLjg5
Paul W:It is vital to understand today's and tomorrow's culture and that is the MILLENNIAL age group. As I stated FIVE years ago, they are more interested in travelling, travelling, travelling, seeing the world, doing things, getting an experience from Mother Nature
deleted
Paul W: It's very closed on BeoWorld with guys over 40 wondering why B&O is not selling millions of £5000 loud speakers. It's an argument that has appeared time and time and time again for the last six plus years. B&O needs PLAY more than ever. It is vital to understand today's and tomorrow's culture and that is the MILLENNIAL age group. As I stated FIVE years ago, they are more interested in travelling, travelling, travelling, seeing the world, doing things, getting an experience from Mother Nature rather than buying a £5K TV or stationary HiFi system - that's alien to them. Have a red of the FT here and you will 100% understand how the world has truly changed and how spending or indeed lack of it has changed people's perceptions. You will then understand how the modern world is evolving... http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/94e97eee-ce9a-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377.html#axzz4Hy8BLjg5
Paul,
its clear from the article that finances for buying the home to put a nice AV system are harder and later in life to come by? Despite the B&O product placement on friends was ironic as it possibly at the point when the TV and audio don't have to be shared that the investment and commitment is made. Prior to that the surfing is likely to be between sofas than in the water. I bought my first B&O when I finally had my own territory but before then you have to be ready to move lending itself more to Beoplay than B&O. You lease your car and phone ,so why buy something stationary which could become obsolete?
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Simonbeo: Paul W: It's very closed on BeoWorld with guys over 40 wondering why B&O is not selling millions of £5000 loud speakers. It's an argument that has appeared time and time and time again for the last six plus years. B&O needs PLAY more than ever. It is vital to understand today's and tomorrow's culture and that is the MILLENNIAL age group. As I stated FIVE years ago, they are more interested in travelling, travelling, travelling, seeing the world, doing things, getting an experience from Mother Nature rather than buying a £5K TV or stationary HiFi system - that's alien to them. Have a red of the FT here and you will 100% understand how the world has truly changed and how spending or indeed lack of it has changed people's perceptions. You will then understand how the modern world is evolving... http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/94e97eee-ce9a-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377.html#axzz4Hy8BLjg5 Paul, its clear from the article that finances for buying the home to put a nice AV system are harder and later in life to come by? Despite the B&O product placement on friends was ironic as it possibly at the point when the TV and audio don't have to be shared that the investment and commitment is made. Prior to that the surfing is likely to be between sofas than in the water. I bought my first B&O when I finally had my own territory but before then you have to be ready to move lending itself more to Beoplay than B&O. You lease your car and phone ,so why buy something stationary which could become obsolete?
Mellennial - the entitled generation!
Puncher:Mellennial - the entitled generation! Ban boring signatures!
Paul, It's the guys over 40 that buy the expensive stuff and have travelled the world already - the purchase of the expensive is what drives research and that benefits everyone and filters down into the Play range making it a quality brand.
I also think you are generalising and slightly out of touch - young people (a small percentage admittedly, but increasing) are also embracing older technologies and fascinated by old school hifi - not sure if you have spoken to many students or young people but the ones I know are worried about getting on the housing ladder, careers, finishing university - only the well off and small percentage of those willing to slum it are able to travel as extensively, most will travel for a few months and then settle down.
It is the aspirational many that will form the future buyers of B&O high end systems and they will start with the play range - no doubt influenced by previous generations.
Millenials.... In the words of George Bernard Shaw, 'Youth is wasted on the young.'
Some personal views posted here:
https://www.quora.com/Who-said-youth-is-wasted-on-the-young-What-does-that-mean
Graham
vikinger:Millenials.... In the words of George Bernard Shaw, 'Youth is wasted on the young.' Some personal views posted here: https://www.quora.com/Who-said-youth-is-wasted-on-the-young-What-does-that-mean Graham
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.