ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dear forummembers,
Recently I fell in love with the music from 'LUDOVICO EINAUDI'.Sounds so pure... Especially his album 'In a Time lapse'. (RECOMMENDED!)Would love to hear it on some Beolab 5's (or 90's) in the future
I discovered a 'rattle' on my Beolab 8000 mk2's (mint condition, from 2009) hearable when I play pretty loud). For example if you play 'Ludovico Einaudi - Waterways' when you hear the deep bass coming from the kettledrum (I think it's a kettledrum?!)...
The 'rattle' is coming from the bassports on top of both BL8000's.I noticed, when I touched the 'speaker cloth' (is this te correct English word for it?) in front of the mentioned bass-port, the rattle stops. So it's the sound of the cloth vibrating, due to the huge amount of bass/blowing air on that specific part.I removed both frets completely and listened to the BL8000's without the frets and sound/bass was tight, like it should.Listened to the same test-song (Ludovico Einaudi - Waterways, when you hear the kettledrum, starting at 01:30) on my BL6000's. And because they do have a lot less bass, you offcourse can't hear the 'rattle'.Listened on my dad's BL8000's mk1 and also not hearable.I know the mk2's have 'more' bass compared tot the mk1's, but with some frequencies (like the mentioned song) this causes to much/hard air blowing out of the bass-ports, causing the cloth to (vissibly) vibrate and 'rattle'.The cloth/frets are 100% tight and feel and look like new (not worn out/stretched).
Has anyone else experienced this?(maybe someone wants to test this on his Beolab 8000's MK2? The song Ludovico Einaudi - Waterways is a song that you should listen to anyway).
(ps: the frequency of this bass hasn't got anything to do with the audioquality, it is hearable on 128kb, 320kb Spotify but also on flac. Of course the 'rattle' is also hearable with other songs with a lot of bass, but this is the song where it's easy to check)
Thanks,
Dear tuttivini
I have the same problem like you; but sorry - till yet no clue how to fix it; maybe now theres someone on the forum who can give us a hint?!
Best Regrads
Elmar
Do you also have mk2's?
A 'fix' could be placing (glue on?) an extra 'bar' on the inside of the frets, in the centre of the bass-hole, directly behind the cloth. The 'bar' could be made out of a simple strip of black plastic material.
This way you wouldn't see it on the outside, but it gives extra strength on the inside and possibly prevents the cloth to vibrate when a lot off bass/wind is produced?
Other members experience the same on their BL8000's mk2?
(Besides this rattle, I do like the deeper bass, compared to the mk1's I heard)
(Maybe, if you combine the 8000's with a Beolab 2 or 11, the internal sub crossover will prevent the amount of air blowing out of the 8000 bass port holes causing the rattle, because the lower frequencies go to the sub. But I bought he mk2's because of the deeper bass, so this shouldn't happen.)
It is simply physics @ work!
The smaller the port the higher the velocity of the air!
What you are experiencing is the sound of turbulence!
Only one fix,- MKI
@tuttivini
The recommendation was really appreciated! I have just listened to the track "Experience" which is basically wrapped around Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell. Pretty powerful stuff!, Unfortunately with a sad real life twist.
And yes! It does go, deep! Really deep. almost inaudible deep!
I would say Penta deep! This is properly beyond the BL 8000!
Thanks for sharing!
I understand this behavior can be described as 'simple physics', but when B&O designed this model/updated it to mk2, shouldn't they have noticed this?
So all mk2's do this?
(If so, maybe I'm going to make an extra plastic bar on the inside of the frets, to prevent the fabric/cloth vibrate and create the rattle. If this fixes it, it would sound wonderfull. Deeper bass compared to the mk1, without disturbing rattles).
Cool you listened to the album 'in a time lapse'!
Experience is also a personal favorite. You describe it correctly: almost inaudible deep. Penta's would do these songs more justice. Would also love to hear it on BL5's. Also try 'Experience -Starkey Remix' from the deluxe edition album. Little more modern, but punchy.
'Circles' is also sounds good, with Greta Svabo Bech's crisp voice.
And of course Fly, from the album divenire. You should see the movie Intouchable. The number 'belongs' to this great movie.
Ps: thanks for noticing/mentioning the link with Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell! I didn't knew this.
I experienced the turbulence phenomenon on my RL60.2's a while back. Nothing I could really do about it since I couldn't just "remove" the frets.
I noticed it most when I was listening to The Chemical Brothers - Under The Influence. There are bass sweeps at 0:14 and 0:57 that are out of this world and will test the bass of any speaker (IMHO). A bit of a departure from Einaudi, but worth a listen.
"shouldn't they have noticed this?"
They properly did, but the 8000 is a tremendous feat of compromise, sleek, slender, low box volume and ABL, something has to give.
And yes all speakers with small port holes do this (psssttt... Beovison 10 )
The MKI is slightly less efficient at lower frequencies, thus less of a problem! You may actually notice the problem disappears if you really turn up the volume since the LF protection kicks in and changes the filter behaviour.
I am looking forward to listening to "Experience" tomorrow on the 5s, and i will definitely, check your other suggestions!
Anecdote.. Lux Aeterna apparently was the music Anders Behring Breivik was listening to, when he did the killings in Norway!
Hi Beovox141,
Just listening to "Experience" on my Penta IIIs and the sound is superb, thanks for the recommendation!
Adding Beolab 2 to the Beolab 8000 mk.2s is another way to resolve the bass port issue, whilst improving bass response and depth. Beolab 8000 is always going to be a compromise, with such a high output from a tiny cabinet without any DSP. Adding a separate subwoofer avoids most of the bass problems and allows them to really sing!
Kind regards, Steve.
Steve.
www.soundsheavenly.com
Founder of Sounds Heavenly Cables and Brand Ambassador for Bang & Olufsen
Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!
Please check out my YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
A subwoofer is going to be my next step. Still deciding if the BL2 or the BL11 is best for me (second hand), mostly for music, but also for movies and needs to go quite deep/loud.
Maybe I can find a secondlife dealer which has them both so I can test then at home...
I know the BL8000's are always a compromise. But besides the annoying fret-cloth-rattle, when a lot of air is blowing out of the bass port, I find them sounding very good and bass is quite deep/low/punchy do such small cabinets. If I only could fix re 'rattle' sound...
..double post..
What is best, only a test in your own home will tell!
If possible, have both one after another for a week or so - do not judge from a short listening test.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Ps: couldn't hold myself: started a modification this evening. Almost finished. If finished I can put the frets back and listen. Looking good in till now.
If it works, I will post photos and the description tomorrow.
Ps: I noticed, looking at the serial numbers of both my BL8000'S, it's not a pair! Both begin with 2013xxxx, but the last four digits are different. Is this bad? Looking at matching sound?
As promised:
Unfortunetely my first attempt to solve the 'vibrating cloth' in front of the bassport failed.I give myself an A-for-effort, because it looked verrrry good.
I made a black plastic vertical 'bar', in the centre of where the bassport fires the bass/air.I made it from two layers of plastic. One layer/bar which was the internal diameter of the open square (100mm) and one layer (130mm) which I glued on top of the 100mm bar. I glued the two combined layers inside the frets. U used two combined layers so the inner layer would sit flush, directly against the speakercloth.On the photo below you can see one bar already glued on inside the lower fret and on the upper fret I only the applied glue dots (I placed the selfmade bars in both frets, but on this photo only applied the bar on the lower fret. The contact-glue on the upper fret is still drying):
On the photo below you can see the end result from the outside of the fret.Looks good. When installed on the Beolabs, so without light coming through, you couldn't see the extra vertical bar at all:
Unfortunately, when testing with the same song(s), the vibrating speaker cloth still existed...So I removed the handmade 'bars'. I used Bison contact adhesive, so I could remove it all without any residue/damage.My next attempt will be to place some sort of 'exhaust hood filter' behind the fret (around the square 100x100mm cut out).Maybe this prevents the speakercloth to vibrate, but doesn't block the air, coming out of the bassport entirely.So something like this material::If that also doesn't work, I will accept this Beolab 8000 mk2 'design flaw', because I do like all the rest of its looks and overall sound so much.A solution would be to treat them with an added BL2, BL11 or BL19 in the the future, like discussed above...Anyone who can answer my other asked question in this topic? -> I noticed, looking at the serial numbers of both my BL8000'S, it's not a pair! Both begin with 2013xxxx, but the last four digits are different. Is this bad? Looking at matching sound?
tuttivini:For example if you play 'Ludovico Einaudi - Waterways'
This song made me think of "Time" by Hans Zimmer (OST of Inception). They are very close... with very low bass too.
Hi CB,
I can also recommend "Flight of the cosmic hippo" by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, a very nice jazz track for testing bass output!
Kind regards, Steve
You shouldn't be concerned about the serial numbers, the all meet the (and are tested) to the same specifications!
And as I said before, you are engaged in a battle with physics, which you properly eventually will lose!
There might be one solution you could try,- Use a piece of soft foam with a cutout at least 1.5 times the port hole and suspend it between the fabric and the speaker, it will be visible but could do the trick!
A perfect adhesive for checking out "inventions" is the blue 3M spray mount, easy to handle, and it leaves no residue!
@ Steve
Thanks for sharing! I see your point (hear I guess )
A friend of mine Peter Pan, introduced me to Quality of mercy by Michelle Shocked. It doesn't go quite as deep, but the energy is dissipated slightly higher! And it's delivered with a vengeance! The dynamic is absolutely stellar on this track! Let me know if you have trouble finding it!
Any progress battling physics?
No progress yet. Need to buy some soft foam first.
Will keep you updated.
Original Michelle Shocked - Quality Of Mercy. -
Bassofil / Peter Pan