ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Sad news... seems that Hollywood crushed them after reading about the legal battle Hollywood started from 2005 - 2014!
Yes, sad news...
The integration of Kaleidescape with Bang & Olufsen was one of the best cinematic experience...
I met someone who installed this system in his home and found it hard to believe a 3-4 unit system could cost more than the price of a new 11-55!
Always makes me sad when a company who wanted to do something right falls victim to their own standards.
Kaleidescape is a very elegant system, but the pricing was out of this world. The trouble is, if you've got enough money to drop on a full system you're probably far too busy to sit down and watch films for hours and hours....
Lee
I had totally forgotten about Kaleidoscape. I remember when it was introduced how amazing the concept was. Now, however, it seems odd that there was such a time. With Apple TV, we essentially have all of that -- an interface that shows the cover art of all of our video library but at a total fraction of the cost and size. Most blu-rays today even come with an iTunes digital copy.
I think it's great that it's gone. All it did was encourage people to sit in their houses and get fat watching useless TV shows and movies. They undoubtedly then got their fat behinds into non-electric, greenhouse gas spewing SUVs to go to the grocery store to buy more unsustainably harvested food, probably GMO too, to eat, instead of bicycling to the organic farmers market like they should. Millennials would never do that, they're far too hip and socially and environmentally conscious. Derp.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
So true Jeff. Now your country surely has caused all of those problems - yes!?!
Totally true BeoJeff
Paul W: So true Jeff. Now your country surely has caused all of those problems - yes!?! Totally true BeoJeff
Took 1 1/2 hours but rose to the bait!
Graham
vikinger: Took 1 1/2 hours but rose to the bait! Graham
Hook, line, and sinker.
Jeff, I now award you honorary 'British Humour' status... (and that's with a 'u'..)
Paul, how could you?!
As there was no direct abuse, and nobody was harmed in the process of making this thread, I can admit that I laughed for a long time.
Sorry
Shouldn't that be "honourary?"
Ah, you know... A little B&O here, a little there
Way to go Jeff! First the Olympics, then Beoworld
You-Ess-Ayy. You-Ess-Ayy. You-Ess-Ayy!
Thanks to all for the kind words!
Getting back to the original subject, I never knew about Kaleidescape until about a year or so ago when I was over at my nearest B&O dealer. I was impressed by the interface, very slick and seamless integration, that is until I started pricing it out. This was after the media moguls had forced them into a subscription/server kind of application. The idea of paying 5-10 bucks or so to clone every DVD or BluRay I had just so I could access them via Kaleidescape seemed insane to me, especially as I have a couple of hundred movies and shows. If it had been the original model where you could rip your own discs to a local server you owned in your house, I'd have been all over it. My wife really liked the idea until she realized how much money it'd cost.
As for Apple and iTunes, what a rip off they can be. For example, their catalog is far more limited than my movie collection, great if you have more mainstream tastes, but I tend to favor odd and unusual movies and shows, a lot of foreign films and cult films. Also, too much of what's available on iTunes is poorly done...for example: I recently bought on iTunes the series "Ash Vs. Evil Dead." Great video quality, it was a brand new release and since it was on Starz and I don't have cable anymore, was the only way to watch it, it's not available on Netflix or Amazon Video. Was a beautiful transfer. So, since I hadn't bought BluRays of the 2nd season of "Penny Dreadful" I decided to not get the discs but buy it on iTunes. My mistake, I should have checked the details of the videos, they are awful 720p transfers, with terrible compression and poor contrast and shadow detail, which is killer for series that is shot so much at night like this show is. Recently both seasons showed up on Netflix streaming so I could compare them side by side as it were, and the Netflix stream was far superior, almost as good as a BluRay if not quite as much shadow detail it seemed. Sound was better too. Too many of the films and shows on iTunes, when I went back and started looking are HD (720p) which is a real disappointment.
The only way it seems to get what Kaleidescape offered is to setup your own Media Center PC and use "illegal" s/w to rip your DVDs and BluRays yourself.
Jeff: The only way it seems to get what Kaleidescape offered is to setup your own Media Center PC and use "illegal" s/w to rip your DVDs and BluRays yourself.
Works for me!
A Synolog 1815 8bay NAS and a couple of NUC style "players", and you are right back in the driver seat!
You decide what, when, how and why!
BEOVOX141: and you are right back in the driver seat!
and you are right back in the driver seat!
....without a driving license ;-(
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: BEOVOX141: and you are right back in the driver seat! ....without a driving license ;-( MM
What they don't know won't hurt you. Good approach BEOVOX141.
Jeff: Thanks to all for the kind words! Getting back to the original subject, I never knew about Kaleidescape until about a year or so ago when I was over at my nearest B&O dealer. I was impressed by the interface, very slick and seamless integration, that is until I started pricing it out. This was after the media moguls had forced them into a subscription/server kind of application. The idea of paying 5-10 bucks or so to clone every DVD or BluRay I had just so I could access them via Kaleidescape seemed insane to me, especially as I have a couple of hundred movies and shows. If it had been the original model where you could rip your own discs to a local server you owned in your house, I'd have been all over it. My wife really liked the idea until she realized how much money it'd cost. As for Apple and iTunes, what a rip off they can be. For example, their catalog is far more limited than my movie collection, great if you have more mainstream tastes, but I tend to favor odd and unusual movies and shows, a lot of foreign films and cult films. Also, too much of what's available on iTunes is poorly done...for example: I recently bought on iTunes the series "Ash Vs. Evil Dead." Great video quality, it was a brand new release and since it was on Starz and I don't have cable anymore, was the only way to watch it, it's not available on Netflix or Amazon Video. Was a beautiful transfer. So, since I hadn't bought BluRays of the 2nd season of "Penny Dreadful" I decided to not get the discs but buy it on iTunes. My mistake, I should have checked the details of the videos, they are awful 720p transfers, with terrible compression and poor contrast and shadow detail, which is killer for series that is shot so much at night like this show is. Recently both seasons showed up on Netflix streaming so I could compare them side by side as it were, and the Netflix stream was far superior, almost as good as a BluRay if not quite as much shadow detail it seemed. Sound was better too. Too many of the films and shows on iTunes, when I went back and started looking are HD (720p) which is a real disappointment. The only way it seems to get what Kaleidescape offered is to setup your own Media Center PC and use "illegal" s/w to rip your DVDs and BluRays yourself.
Your reasoning is a bit circular, Jeff. You pointed out that the cost of Kaleidescape was quite prohibitive -- which is a big factor for why it failed. It just could not reach a larger market. When it first was introduced, there was nothing else like it. Mind you, that was back in the days of DVD. Now, we enjoy the higher quality of blu-ray. If you look at the offerings of the Kaleidescape store, the catalogue diminishes as you go for higher quality. I have found the iTunes store to offer a surprisingly good catalogue. If you look at the details, you can very often see that the 720p is applicable to the downloaded and stored iTunes copy. However, you usually have the option to stream the same content in 1080p.
Jeff: Millemissen: BEOVOX141: and you are right back in the driver seat! ....without a driving license ;-( MM What they don't know won't hurt you. Good approach BEOVOX141.
Not untill they know!
Bad approach BEOVOX141
Kaleidescape did not have to shut down because it was a bad software/hardware or because the company did not know their stuff.
They simply could not compete against fast internet speed (up and down), mature ripping software, exellent movie copies 'floating around', cheap storage in NAS's with built-in clients for automated downloads and people, who choose not to respect the rights of the content owners.
Do as you like - I still don't applaud it...
....just as I don't applaud snatching an orange in the supermarket or swiping a magazine from the rack.
It is such a stupid high end product that is way past its time. No tears shed here.
--
BeoLab 18's. Beolab 3's. A8. A9. A2. H7.
Millemissen: Jeff: Millemissen: BEOVOX141: and you are right back in the driver seat! ....without a driving license ;-( MM What they don't know won't hurt you. Good approach BEOVOX141. Not untill they know! Bad approach BEOVOX141 Kaleidescape did not have to shut down because it was a bad software/hardware or because the company did not know their stuff. They simply could not compete against fast internet speed (up and down), mature ripping software, exellent movie copies 'floating around', cheap storage in NAS's with built-in clients for automated downloads and people, who choose not to respect the rights of the content owners. Do as you like - I still don't applaud it... ....just as I don't applaud snatching an orange in the supermarket or swiping a magazine from the rack. MM
I agree with you in part. The new technologies, internet speeds for streaming, and storage played a huge factor in the demise. In all fairness, the company had a great concept when it started, and it kept trying to adapt to survive. Still, it was inevitable that companies like Apple would find a way to better capture the market in more economic ways. I don't think that illegal downloads are necessarily the main factor here. Apple just finds ways to do the same thing better. This is what happened with the music industry and has become a threat to the movie studios -- who want to push Ultraviolet copies to discourage Apple content. I personally still like owning the physical blu-ray disc. Most of these come with a code to download an iTunes copy to have on the Apple TV -- even to stream in 1080p. The same license also lets you access and stream the content from your iPhone or iPad while traveling. Kaleidesape just doesn't come close to this technology and versatility as it is now. The thought of paying thousands for the same convenience as an Apple TV is just now absurd. The company kept treading water and flailing, but it was time for it to ultimately accept drowning from it's own weight.
beojeff: I agree with you in part. The new technologies, internet speeds for streaming, and storage played a huge factor in the demise. In all fairness, the company had a great concept when it started, and it kept trying to adapt to survive. Still, it was inevitable that companies like Apple would find a way to better capture the market in more economic ways. I don't think that illegal downloads are necessarily the main factor here. Apple just finds ways to do the same thing better. This is what happened with the music industry and has become a threat to the movie studios -- who want to push Ultraviolet copies to discourage Apple content. I personally still like owning the physical blu-ray disc. Most of these come with a code to download an iTunes copy to have on the Apple TV -- even to stream in 1080p. The same license also lets you access and stream the content from your iPhone or iPad while traveling. Kaleidesape just doesn't come close to this technology and versatility as it is now. The thought of paying thousands for the same convenience as an Apple TV is just now absurd. The company kept treading water and flailing, but it was time for it to ultimately accept drowning from it's own weight.
If only Apple/iTunes and/or others could provide the same (!!!) quality (P- and A-weise) and supply of titles as the physical BR discs offer, I would gladly embrase such a service.
But we are far from this in reality.
Apart from what I find interesting on Netflix, I buy the discs...
....and since I seldom watch these more than twice, I don't 'rip' them.
No need for a monster NAS at my place.
Apart from that - I have other things to do, than watching movies.
P.S. A couple of weeks ago one of the B&O dealers (in DK) advertised his Kaleidescape setup for sale.
They had had that running for years in the shop and used it for displaying a big (B&O) cinema setup for the costumers.
Now I know the reason why they wanted to get rid of it ;-)
I must remember to ask next time I am there, which solution will replace it there.
For me, again, the original concept of Kaleidescape would have been wonderful, that is the ability to rip my own discs to a server, easily, with their metadata service, etc. But the way it worked out it was an expensive version of Netflix or iTunes or Amazon Prime Video, and apparently the selection never went that far off the mainstream. (Not completely sure, as I stopped browsing when I learned the price.) Not particularly interested in copying other people's discs to avoid buying them, the only time I do that with audio is when the disc is out of print. I refuse to feel guilty about copying something I can't buy.
The point about using iTunes so you can stream it to whatever device you have wherever you are is a valid one if you feel the need to do that. Kind of like a book review Abraham Lincoln allegedly wrote when he worked for a newspaper, "People who like this kind of thing will find this the kind of thing they like." But for me, even if I weren't retired and mostly stay in one place, that wouldn't appeal much to me, it's just not what I personally do. I guess I'm firmly a member of the pipe and slippers brigade, US/Georgia chapter! But even when I was traveling a couple of years ago pretty extensively for work, I didn't watch videos or even really take music with me, nor did I pine for my videos or music, people have different wants and needs, to each their own, whatever makes you happier is good.
Now, a somewhat analogous thing that is a must have for me when traveling is access to my books. As many as possible, I read on trips, voraciously. So, for me the killer app has always been e-readers. I started out with a Sony e-reader right when they first came out, and then with the next generation one. The ability to carry 200 or so books with me in a tiny, compact reader was heaven. I've moved on from it to where I mostly now use the Kindle app on my tablet and phone. So, cloud storage of the books I've bought, with the ability to access everywhere, and have it keep my place no matter which device I use, phone, tablet, is just wonderful. Even today, while waiting somewhere I'll take my phone out and read on it while waiting instead of just sitting there and twiddling my thumbs. These days I'm always kind of peeved when I go to Amazon and a book I want isn't available on Kindle.
But for me anyway none of the services really do it all, which is why I have DVDs and BRs, Amazon Prime Video, an Apple TV (I still think far too many of their stuff isn't proper HD and they don't make it that easy to tell at a glance while shopping), and Netflix. In fact, even as interesting a selection as Netflix streaming has, it's pretty shallow in the kind of movies I like, all of them are but each service above seems to have some things I like but don't really overlap much. So, I also subscribe to Netflix DVD/BR service, on the cheap 10 buck a month one disc at a time thing added to my streaming account. Netflix has an astonishing depth of selection in off the wall stuff and foreign (well, foreign to us!) films and shows that will probably never, ever see a streaming service. In addition, for 10 dollars a month I can get as many of the new big hit movies on disc as I like, as opposed to either buying them blind or paying 4 or 5 dollars, or even up to 8 to 10 depending on title, to "rent" them via a streaming service. So the disc rental service really pays for itself in savings over renting them in streaming.
So, that's my take on the whole thing. My needs are undoubtedly different from most others, but the current approach works, but I'd still have liked all my several hundred discs all together on a server with easier access.