ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I am curious in this stereo/mono debate, which of the previous non-BL speakers were mono as nobody ever brought up this point. Old BS1? A6? A9? Beolit 12? A1? A2?
steve1977: I am curious in this stereo/mono debate, which of the previous non-BL speakers were mono as nobody ever brought up this point. Old BS1? A6? A9? Beolit 12? A1? A2?
The first four of those are stereo, but when you put both channels so close together unless you're very close is it really stereo? Might have a slight left/right effect but far away less and less with less uniform effect as you get more off axis. My Beolab 2000s don't sound like stereo unless you're really close to them, and my Beolit 15 trounces them in sound quality and bass especially.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Sal: Aussie Michael:Now i think i will sell my BL3s and have the BS1 instead in that room Not that surprised about the comparisons to the A6, but very surprised you'd replace two BL3's with one BS1... I would have thought a pair of 3's would kick the *** out of the BS1, or is it because of the connectivity of the BS1? Thanks for the pictures and in depth thoughts! Congratulations!
Aussie Michael:Now i think i will sell my BL3s and have the BS1 instead in that room
Not that surprised about the comparisons to the A6, but very surprised you'd replace two BL3's with one BS1... I would have thought a pair of 3's would kick the *** out of the BS1, or is it because of the connectivity of the BS1?
Thanks for the pictures and in depth thoughts! Congratulations!
Ooh, just saw this. :-)
No lol, the 3s are just sitting there, i dont use them as they are not connected to anything. The 3s are great, however, i found that when they are connected with the Avant you can crank them up, more than when they were connected to my Encore (when i had it).
I suppose I could have bought an essence for half the price of the BS1, but my house is practically going NL, and i found it easy to press the BS1 and i loved the look and interaction.
I was thinking of connecting the 3s to the PM but that's not NL, so .... that's why they are just sitting there.
I now have the 3s set with the Receiver 1s and set up with a speaker group with the Avant in the other room, but if someone else is watching the Avant, I can't send another source to the 3s. So i use the BS1 :-) And i'm happy with that.
Jeff: steve1977: I am curious in this stereo/mono debate, which of the previous non-BL speakers were mono as nobody ever brought up this point. Old BS1? A6? A9? Beolit 12? A1? A2? The first four of those are stereo, but when you put both channels so close together unless you're very close is it really stereo? Might have a slight left/right effect but far away less and less with less uniform effect as you get more off axis. My Beolab 2000s don't sound like stereo unless you're really close to them, and my Beolit 15 trounces them in sound quality and bass especially.
Funny - why isn't the BeoSound 3 mentioned?
This is the direct forefather of the BS1 portable concept.
B&O has always been making gear with no 'real stereo' - they make products for everyday use.
If I would ask my wife, 'what is stereo' and 'why is it good', I am sure she would not be able to answer.
And why should she - she is interested in a 'decent sound' coming from the device - not in finding the right place to sit in order to explore the sound stage and localize the different instruments/tracks right/left, front/behind etc etc.....
The (new) BS1 (and I suppose the 2) is another example of how B&O has been working with sound for people for years. Using the lens technology and using the knowledge from building loudspeakers for ages has resultet in this '360 degree speaker'.
If you want 'stereo', there are plenty of other options from B&O.
If you want both - get one of each!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Duels: It strikes me that B&O plan to deal with this by offering their next generation of speakers with the technology currently offered in the BL90s.
It strikes me that B&O plan to deal with this by offering their next generation of speakers with the technology currently offered in the BL90s.
Which plans?
The latest annual report referred to this (on page 18), MM:
"The technologies and know-how gained from the development of BeoLab 90 will be used in future Bang & Olufsen products, and ensure that Bang & Olufsen remains at the forefront of the technological development within the field of loudspeaker acoustics."
Duels:The latest annual report referred to reusing the technology in the BL90s in other speakers.
'Future Bang & Olufsen products will benefit from the innovation and know-how gained from the development of BeoLab 90.'
Sure - but 'plans' is different.
Anyway - looking forward to what might come :-)
Millemissen: Sure - but 'plans' is different. MM
No it isn't. From my quote they plan to reuse the technologies.
I am sure they do - but how?
Millemissen:I am sure they do - but how? MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Sort of on topic, but after a ~month with my A1 and seeing the new BS1, I need an A1 with NL. That is, a more outdoorsy (cheaper, more rugged, great sounding, but not necessarily HiFi) version of the BS1.
My wife likes to use the A1 by the pool so she doesn't have to blast our outdoor speakers whenever she's out there. However, the A1 is an island in an otherwise NL/ML house. It would be nice to have the A1 synchronized with the outdoor speakers (driven by an Essense and BeoLink Passive) for parties and such so we can get nice sound by the pool without blasting everybody by the house. However, I think the BS1 is too "nice" to have by the pool...
Oh well, I'm not going to hold my breath...
Stan
Millemissen:' Future Bang & Olufsen products will benefit from the innovation and know-how gained from the development of BeoLab 90 .' Sure - but 'plans' is different. Anyway - looking forward to what might come :-) MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Who says, that we will see it in the speakers - maybe we will see it in a future audio engine...
....or in both.
Got my BS1 today. Very impressed!
The sound: Rich and deep bass (at moderate levels) and good clarity. It does not sound when played too loud as the ABL limits the bass. It is mono, so the soundscape is what it is, but it spreads the sound evenly across the room and the "sweet spot" is everywhere. If your room is to very big and you like to play loud, the BS2 is probably better for you.
Build quality: Superp. Looks and feels really nice! The aluminium feels luxurious, like B&O should feel. The top plastic plate is not the best looking nor the best to touch, but it does the job.
Functions: NL-multiroom, Deezer, Spotify, Tunein, Airplay/chromecast. What else could one wish for? The included battery makes it the perfect kitchen/balcony speaker.
Looks: like a robot. It also looks like a flask. But it is beautiful.
All in all, great little music system!
Millemissen:Who says, that we will see it in the speakers - maybe we will see it in a future audio engine... ....or in both. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
I have a question for those of you that already have the Beosound 1. I tried to find the user manual online, but it doesn't seem to be up on B&O web yet. Anyway:
The top button, when pressed, switches between play and pause, I guess. But if nothing is playing yet, e.g. the system is in standby after the night, what does it do? And is this programmable or selectable through settings in some way? I guess if something else is playing on your BeoLink system somewhere the Beosound 1 joins that stream. How about if nothing is playing? Does the Beosound 1 have Pattern Play, like the Moment? Specifically, I would like to predetermine a radio channel from TuneIn, so that every time the top button is pressed the first time each morning, this radio channel starts playing. Is this possible?
As you can imagine, I'm constructing an argument for buying the Beosound 1 to be used on my wife here. She likes to listen to radio in the morning, and I want every speaker and sound system in our apartment to be BeoLink ones. She thinks pulling out the phone, opening the Beomusic app and clicking four or five times to select the right radio channel is too much hassle, something in which I partly agree. Having only to push this button on the top of the Beosound 1 once would be ideal.
-h.
I have been looking for that user guide too.
But I suppose, that it works just like the Essence with wheely does.
If nothing already playes, it would start the source, that you have given first priority in the settings.
That would - in your case - not be a specific radio station, but if that one was listened to last time, I suppose it will be that.
May a BS1-owner (or dealer) confirm this?
You can switch between your music sources by making a ‘double tap’ on the top of you BeoSound 1.
To change the order in which sources are activated when you ‘double tap’ on top of the BeoSound 1, or to change the source list shown in the BeoSetup App or BeoMusic App*, go to the menu ‘YOUR CONTENT’ in BeoSetup App and then to the ‘SOURCES’ menu.
Found here:
https://beosound1.bang-olufsen.com/hc/en-us/categories/200855619-BeoSound-1
Nice find, MM! Thanks!
Seems like you are right, then. The way I understand it, if TuneIn is given the highest priority of services on the Beosound 1, which can be done via the Beosetup app, TuneIn will be what is always played first when you tap the top of the Beosound 1 in the morning. Granted that nothing else is already playing on any other Beolink-system in another part of your home. Further, there is no way to manually predetermine which radio station will start playing, but TuneIn will start playing the station you listened to last. So if you normally listen to the same radio station this sorts itself out anyway.
Would be great if anyone with a Beosound 1 could confirm this!
Henrik:Nice find, MM! Thanks! Seems like you are right, then. The way I understand it, if TuneIn is given the highest priority of services on the Beosound 1, which can be done via the Beosetup app, TuneIn will be what is always played first when you tap the top of the Beosound 1 in the morning. Granted that nothing else is already playing on any other Beolink-system in another part of your home. Further, there is no way to manually predetermine which radio station will start playing, but TuneIn will start playing the station you listened to last. So if you normally listen to the same radio station this sorts itself out anyway. Would be great if anyone with a Beosound 1 could confirm this! -h.
https://youtu.be/biQ3dbKfNw0
Listened this morning at a dealers shop to the BS1.
Until now Beoplay audio products were made in China, the BS1 & 2 are the first products from their Beosound range who are now also made in China.
I don't want actually to say that this is a bad product because of the label made in China, but they are taken the profits and jobs from European workers by producing at lower worker rates in China, most people seem to forget this.
So all signs are there that B&O still is struggling to survive and moved production facilities to China for the benefit of their investors, who like to see money, more money.
In my opinion is the BS1 a medium sounding speaker with a lot of features but greatly overpriced, especially now with the production label of made in China.
For the money you invest in this speaker there are other brands offering you equal or better quality at a fairly lower price or you have to buy it especially for the perfect integration to your B&O multiroom system.
But lets not compare apples to oranges, no brand can give you this appearance. Regardless of the lack of soundstage, stereo and mid-fi the BS1 produces.
Hope B&O and dealers survive this troubling times.
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Chris: So all signs are there that B&O still is struggling to survive and moved production facilities to China for the benefit of their investors, who like to see money, more money.
Millemissen: https://youtu.be/biQ3dbKfNw0 MM
Partly made in Danemark
Still nobody to tell us how the the Beosound 2 sounds?
'Made in xxx' means that the final production/assembly was made in xxx - often from parts from several different locations.
In this case the 'housing' was made/produced in Denmark, in Struer!
To me it seems much more important, where the product was born, where it was thought-out, created.
This is definitely in Denmark - even if several not-danes were involved in that process.
I suggest, that people, who have the China-phobi, leave such products in the shop - go find something equivalent (if you can)!
It is not enough, that they claim, that they were willing to pay the price of a product (BS1) entirely made in DK - what matters is, that people in general won't be.
The world has become a global village - wake up!
The world is a village thing doesn't work for luxury products.
We already had that conversation several times on this board.
It's not a question of "made in China" = bad product and "made in Denmark" = good product, it's a question of what a luxury product is.
B&O is on the top of the tree for A/V products and has a danish 90 + years history and heritage.
If it was a chinese company it would have been the same, I would have wanted my "made in china" sticker, like I whant it on my Tsingtao beer.
Craftmanship in Struer, Modena, Geneva, Sant'Agata, Milano, Paris, Crew, Newport Pagnell...that's the thing even if you use exotic components from all over the world.
You lose that you lose your soul (and sales) even with the best and nicest (argualy) product ever.
The Beosound 1 would have been at home since day one with a DK sign on it.
It took some time for me to accept the CZ factory, now whe are talking of chinese origin products from the most luxurious A/V company on earth since a century.
Cheeeez, crazy world.
Bring back the first Avant motto : A LIFE LESS ORDINARY (and that implies no made in China sign - rule n° 1).
B&O management failed. Simply as that. But as always: They are too arrogant to admit it. Now there's another manager and I would bet that he continues to damage B&Os history, reputation and quality. Made in China = do not buy anything from Bang & Olufsen.Made in Denmark = Here's my moneyLuxury loving people demand domestic made products. Even the rich chinese people wouldn't buy things like a Rolex if it would be made in China. And compared to Bang & Olufsen Rolex is not so dumb to produce in China. In the Video the woman says that the aluminium parts where made in Denmark!? Is that right or is Bang & Olufsen lying to their customers again as they did with the battery life of their Beoplay products?
TWG: Made in China = do not buy anything from Bang & Olufsen.Made in Denmark = Here's my money
Made in China = do not buy anything from Bang & Olufsen.Made in Denmark = Here's my money
Not trying to be disrespectful of other peoples' opinions or buying habits here, but this is simply incomprehensible to me. And I'm absolutely open to the notion that I'm the one "not getting it"... But:
The way I see it, attributes of a product can be intrinsic or extrinsic to the product. I care about build quality, design, functionality, the "look and feel" of a product. These attributes are intrinsic to the product, and they are physically part of what I choose to spend money on and keep in my home. Attributes like country of production are extrinsic to the product, and thus about as interesting to me as the shoe size of the person who designed it or the hair colour of the salesperson.
Of course, I would refrain from buying a hypothetical product if I knew that by doing so I directly funded child labour or the destruction of the rain forest, even if the product was top notch. But it's not something like that we're discussing, is it? It's not like we're boycoting all chinese products for political reasons? It's more the thought that a luxury product "shouldn't" be made in China, and that if it is it's somehow detrimental to the product itself? This is what I don't get.
I also understand that it's possible that some countries are associated with lower quality products than other countries. It might even be true, though I don't have any data to support this, that the "average quality" (if there is such a measure) of everything produced in China is lower than the "average quality" of everything produced in e.g. Denmark, Switzerland or Germany. I have no idea. But even if it was, it would say nothing of the quality of the Beosound 1. If it happened to be of poor build quality that would of course be something else. But it's not. I agree with MM on this one: the world is a global village. The product is assembled somewhere, and the parts may be made in thirteen different countries for all I know. It has the look, feel, design, build quality, functionality (and price...) of a luxury product, and to me it is therefore a luxury product.
But of course, at the end of the day it doesn't matter what I as an individual think about luxury products, because I am certainly not going to buy enough Beosound 1s to make it a successful product by myself. If the market refrains from buying it because of the production country alone, then B&O has failed to understand it's customers, certainly. But I do hope that some rationality will win through and that the market will recognize the BS1 for the great product it is, and not judge it by the shoe size of the designer or the hair colour of the salesperson.
I agree with that.
Moreover, the Apple or CMC Modelcars products are manufactured in China (for example) and are what it is done of better in their kind, in my opinion.
B&O can do too.
BL12.2, Hub, H6
Henrik: It's more the thought that a luxury product "shouldn't" be made in China, and that if it is it's somehow detrimental to the product itself? This is what I don't get.
It's more the thought that a luxury product "shouldn't" be made in China, and that if it is it's somehow detrimental to the product itself? This is what I don't get.
Of course I see your point perfectly but still can't agree with it.
It's more where the product should have been made than where it shoudn't have been made.
It's very personnal but when I bought my first B&O product twenty one years ago (Beosound Century) it was like a dream when I entered the shop I couldn't believe what I saw (the Avant, aluminium column speakers, motorised stands, upright music systems, colors...). All that with a magical Made in Denmark sticker.
Magical because a tiny village (Struer) figting against the rest of the world (being Japan and China for electronic products) that was a nice story I wanted to be part of.
That was luxury at it's best.
The China badge is a downgrade from my perspective and I prefer looking up than looking down.
Once again, I never said that China made bad products or that the Beosound 1 was badly made.
I get the filling that the China badge is the only way for B&O to survive because the prices are still sky high and no more products (appart BL90) come out the Struer facilities, and that's a shame because it means that the huge price tag of the Beosound 1 is not for the product itself but for B&O.
BeoGreg:I get the filling that the China badge is the only way for B&O to survive because the prices are still sky high and no more products (appart BL90) come out the Struer facilities, and that's a shame because it means that the huge price tag of the Beosound 1 is not for the product itself but for B&O.
Even though there’s a tremendous cost savings when you go to China, in the end it really isn’t that much.
It’s the hidden costs — the delays, low quality, too much travel, communications problems, the shipping costs, you pick all that up on a learning curve.
So will B&O experience it in the end.
Global village answer addresses mass market products. For luxury products country of production is relevant, because it is part of the brand image and value.
And brand image is a reason why you pay a price premium on B&O compared to equally spec'ed product.
I don't mind "Made in China" tag, I mind paying "Made in Denmark" price for it.
..., and that's a shame because it means that the huge price tag of the Beosound 1 is not for the product itself but for B&O
'...but for B&O'
Most people tend to forget, that a product like the BS1 was initiated, thought-out, 'made in' DK/Struer.
The guys in Struer still have to have their monthly pay - even if the final assemply was in China.
Made in China is way - at a reasonable pricetag - to offer those, who don't buy a product because of the 'luxury factor', but because it a good B&O product.
Millemissen:...at a reasonable pricetag...
If 1.300 EUR is what you call reasonable.
Millemissen:...to offer those, who don't buy a product because of the 'luxury factor', but because it a good B&O product.
Well it's not me who positions B&O as a luxury brand. And I don't buy it for the luxury factor - however as a customer I demand it needs to have it if it is a luxury brand charging reasonable (!) prices.
Regardless, I like the design very much (both BS1 and BS2), also glad to hear from current BS1 owners that it sounds great.
BeoBoy68: Today, no one knows if BeoSound 1&2 are good products. Maybe these products are not reliable over time, like BeoSound 3, BeoSound 6, BeoTime and BeoPlay products which were and are made out of Europe. I bet the lifetime of a BS 1 or 2 will be short. Time will tell us.
Today, no one knows if BeoSound 1&2 are good products.
Maybe these products are not reliable over time,
like BeoSound 3, BeoSound 6, BeoTime and BeoPlay products
which were and are made out of Europe.
I bet the lifetime of a BS 1 or 2 will be short.
Time will tell us.
I cant imagine why they would not be as reliable as any other Play product (which is what it really is wrapped in a Bang & Olufsen shell). I see the whole Play line as a modular quick-assembly line of products made of off-the shelf electronics with predictable MTBF rates. Every constituent electronic component made today probably goes back to Japan, China, Taiwan or S.Korea as its root. And all these Countries will make any component you want.
Where the quality comes in is what was the Buyers technical specification? You want cheap? China can do that. You want good quality? China can do that too - but it will cost you more. Don't specify properly - and China will make sure its margins are slightly more than if it was a well specified manufacture.
A traditional Bang & Olufsen product may have I suspect a higher technical specification and design limits for any component made but this can be wreaked if the methodology of assembly is not thought through properly. This is independent of where it is made.
With respect to product life, I suspect that will be down to how people perceive the form-factor of the product rather than country of manufacture.